DO CUT/ RTMENT
SAN FRANCISCO PUBLIC LIBRARY
3 1223 90214 9484
Digitized by the Internet Archive
in 2013
http://archive.org/details/reportofsenatefa1955cali
CALIFORNIA LEGISLATURE
Eighth Report of the
Senate Fact- Finding Committee
On Un-American Activities
1955
MEMBERS OF THE COMMITTEE
SENATOR NATHAN F. COOMBS, Vice Chairman SENATOR JOHN F. McCARTHY
SENATOR EARL D. DESMOND SENATOR JOHN F. THOMPSON
SENATOR HUGH M. BURNS, Chairman
R. E. COMBS, Counsel MARY E. HOPE, Executive Secretary
VERNICE PERHUS, Secretary ELIZABETH W. NIELSEN, Secretory
Published by the
SENATE
LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR HAROLD J. POWERS
President of the Senate
BEN HULSE JOSEPH A. BEEK
President pro Tempore Secretary
<3 0l,lS~
714811
LETTER OF TRANSMITTAL
Senate Chamber, State Capitol
Sacramento, June 6, 1955
Hon. Harold J. Powers
President of the Senate, and Gentlemen of the Senate;
Senate Chamber, Sacramento, California
Mr. President and Gentlemen of the Senate : Pursuant to Senate
Resolution No. 127, which appears at page 3096 of the Senate Journal
for May 25, 1953, the Senate Fact-Finding Committee on Un-American
Activities was created and the following Members of the Senate were
appointed to said committee by the Senate Committee on Rules :
Senator Nathan F. Coombs
Senator Earl D. Desmond
Senator John F. McCarthy
Senator John F. Thompson
Senator Hugh M. Burns
The committee herewith submits a report of its investigation, find-
ings, and recommendations.
Respectfully submitted,
Hugh M. Burns, Chairman
Nathan F. Coombs, Vice Chairman
Earl D. Desmond
John F. McCarthy
John F. Thompson
TABLE OF CONTENTS
Page
LETTER OF TRANSMITTAL III
WESTMINSTER SCHOOL IMPROVEMENT ASSOCIATION 1
Public Hearing, Los Angeles, July, 1954 6
Testimony of Albin Czerniawski 7
Testimony of Lloyd W. Thomas 21
Testimony of LeRoy Carlin King 32
Testimony of W. L. Reid 34
Conclusions 38
THE CASE OF DORIS BRIN WALKER 48
Misrepresentation to Gain Employment 52
Wilkinson and Eisenberg Cases 66
COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF THE MEDICAL PROFESSION 70
Officers of the Los Angeles County Medical Association 71
Testimony of J. Phillip Sampson, M.D. 75
Testimony of Ewing Turner, M.D 81
Testimony of Lewis Albert Alesen, M.D 85
Testimony of Joseph Manuel de los Reyes, M.D 92
Testimony of Chester L. Roberts, M.D 104
Testimony of Ben Frees, M.D 114
Testimony of Nathaniel Bercovitz, M.D 118
Testimony of Eugene F. Hoffman, M.D 126
Testimony of E. Vincent Askey, M.D 128
American Bar President Supports Doctors 142
Testimony of George W. Nilsson, Esq 142
Medical School Deans Testify 145
Testimony of Dean Walter E. McPherson, M.D 145
Testimony of Dean Stafford L. Warren, M.D 146
Communist Fronts and Their Members . 150
Testimony of Jack Flasher, M.D 139
Testimony of Thomas L. Perry, M.D 151
Testimony of Jack Flasher, M.D. (continued) 170
Stipulated Testimony of Morris R. Feder, M.D 173
Testimony of Martin Hall 176
Testimony of Murray Korngold, Psychologist 186
Testimony of Rose Boyd 193
Testimony of Ken Hartford 198
Testimony of Franklin Bissell, M.D 206
Murray Abowitz, M.D., Excused From Subpena 208
Testimony of Joseph Hittelman, M.D 209
Testimony of Richard W. Lippman, M.D. 221
Testimony of Saul Matlin, Osteopath 233
Testimony of P. Price Cobbs, M.D 237
Testimony of Wilbur Z. Gordon, M.D 241
Testimony of Lenore Sutton 252
Testimony of Marvin Sure, Optometrist 260
Stipulated Testimony of Jacob Agins, M.D 263
Exposure of Communist Fronts and Their Members
Testimony of Sidney M. Kolodny, M.D 134
Testimony of Oner B. Barker, Jr., M.D 264
Testimony of Louise Light, Osteopath 271
Testimony of Mrs. Ruth Drader 290
Testimony of Marden A. Alsberge, M.D 367
TABLE OF CONTENTS-Continued
Page
Documentary Proof 379
The Concept of Class War 379
Association of Internes and Medical Students — AIMS 381
Discrimination Survey- — ASP Medical Division 382
Frontier Magazine 383
Martin Hall's Speech Outline 384
The Civil Rights Congress 385
Arts, Sciences and Professions Council Ballot 386
Committee for the Defense of Foreign Born 387
Conference on Economic Rights for Negi-o Women 391
Arts, Sciences and Professions Council 392
Saturday Evening Post Editorial 394
Letter From Los Angeles County Medical Association 395
COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF PUBLIC UTILITIES IN
CALIFORNIA 396
The Communist Front: First Step Toward Subversion 396
Targets for Infiltration 399
San Francisco Hearing, August, 1953 402
Testimony of Travis Lafferty 402
Testimony of Patrick Hancock 403
Testimony of Holden Hayden 403
Testimony of Silas Stanley 404
Testimony of Joseph Chasin 404
Testimony of Donald W. Powers 405
Los Angeles Hearing, January, 1954 406
Testimony of Cyril H. Gius 406
Testimony of Eleanor Dodge 409
Testimony of Clarence Simo 409
Testimony of William G. Bankhead 409
Testimony of Arthur A. Savage 410
Testimony of Collis D. Spurlin 410
Testimony of Samuel A. Philips : 412
Testimony of Eleanor Philips 414
Testimony of Elna Vandergoot 416
Testimony of Evelyn Banke 416
Testimony of Worden McDonald 416
Testimony of Floyd Rice 417
Testimony of Albert S. Kanagy 417
LOS ANGELES CITY SCHOOL SYSTEM 419
Testimony of Jack Armand Chasson 419
Testimony of Serrill Leonard Gerber 420
Testimony of Evelyn Capell Howard 421
Testimony of Lucille Gurev 421
Testimony of Essie Brown 422
Testimony of John A. Campbell 422
Testimony of Charlotte Appel 423
Local 430, Los Angeles Federation of Teachers 423
Testimony of Harry Shepro 427
Testimony of Jerry George Novotny 428
THE SCHUYTEN CASE 432
THE LURE OF THE COMMUNIST FRONT 434
Los Angeles Hearing, July, 1954 434
Testimony of Howard Estabrook 43G
Testimony of Jesse L. Lasky, Jr 439
Testimony of Albert Lewis 439
Testimony of William Kozlenko 439
Testimony of Art Arthur 441
TABLE OF CONTENTS-Continued
Page
Testimony of Loring Fiske 442
Testimony of Mary McCall Bramson 444
Testimony of Paul Franklin 446
Testimony of Lou Greenspahn 440
LETTERS AND STATEMENTS 447
Irene Tedrow Kent 447
Mistaken Identity 448
George E. Bodle 448
Letters 452
Henry Hersch Hart 452
William N. Robson 452
Maurice J. Karpf 452
C. M. Gibbens 453
National Council Against Conscription 453
Sonoma County Pomona Grange Number 1 453
Robert B. Pettengill 454
Harold Goldman 455
Frank L. Moss 455
Joseph Hoffman 456
Richard B. Hubler 456
Delmer L. Davies 456
Sy Bartlett 456
Sheridan Gibney 457
Arthur Schwartz 458
Norman Houston 459
Thomas H. A. Lewis 459
Harry P. M. Brown _i 459
I. A. L. Diamond 459
Bernard Burton 460
Herbert Kline 460
Maxwell Shane 460
De Witt Bodeen 461
Emmett G. Lavery, Sr 461
Joseph Than 462
True Boardman 463
CONCLUSIONS 465
WESTMINSTER SCHOOL IMPROVEMENT ASSOCIATION
INTRODUCTION
The committee's attention was first directed to alleged subversive
elements in the City of Westminster, California, when certain school
officials contacted representatives of the committee in Sacramento, ex-
pressing suspicion that subversive influences were interfering with the
educational system. This was during the latter part of 1953. There-
after, the committee addressed a letter to some of the complainants in-
forming them that "* * * If investigation discloses that the activity
is of a local political character, we would be without jurisdiction. If,
on the other hand, some subversive elements are discovered, we will take
such action as the facts may warrant. ' '
Accordingly, the committee was sent various newspaper clippings and
other documentary material indicating that there was some basis for
the suspicion and that further investigation should be made.
On April 24, 1954, additional detailed data was received — followed
by documents which indicated that the charges and countercharges in
Westminster and the adjacent vicinity had grown to such proportions
that there was a real necessity to settle the matter, if possible. Aside
from the matter of running the suspicions and rumors to the ground
and determining whether or not they were based on fact, there now
appeared to be such an atmosphere of confusion, suspicion and com-
munity tension in the City of Westminster that the committee was
urged by several of its citizens to provide a forum whereby the matter
could be thoroughly aired and settled once and for all. Certainly, by
mid- April, 1954, the situation in Westminster was such that the school
system was unquestionably affected.
Prime mover in the effort to uncover these alleged subversive influ-
ences in the schools was Mr. Lloyd W. Thomas, editor of a weekly paper,
The Westminster Herald. His interest as a newspaper man was first
aroused when the local school board fired one of its principals for in-
decent conduct. A petition by citizens prompted the board to investigate
the conduct of its employee in the first instance, and in March, 1953,
it held a hearing, received evidence and made the order which term-
inated his services. The individual thus discharged was supported and
defended by persons suspected by Mr. Thomas of being subversive.
After the case had terminated, this little group attacked the school
board and sought to have them defeated at the election held in May,
1953. Unsuccessful in this attempt, they then formed an organization
(1)
Z UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
known as The Tri-City Advisory Committee (comprising the cities of
Westminster, Midwest City and Barber City) with a membership of
11 persons.
In January, 1954, Mr. Thomas got word that another organization,
known as The School Improvement Association, had been launched.
When he discovered that a meeting was to be held at the home of a
Mr. Lyle Richards, he decided to attend and find out for himself what
the movement was about and what the organization intended to accom-
plish. Not being accorded a very warm reception and feeling that he
was being sidetracked, Thomas realized that apparently the new organi-
zation was not anxious to get any publicity in his paper. This served
only to whet his curiosity and convince him that the organization had
something it wished to conceal from public scrutiny. Persistence is a
characteristic with which Mr. Thomas is abundantly endowed. Further-
more, it is almost an axiom that if one wants to arouse the zeal and
curiosity of a newspaper man, the surest means is to convince him that
he is being sidetracked from a newsworthy target.
As he delved deeper into the new organization, Thomas became in-
terested in its dominant members. One of them had taken some part
in the matter involving the discharged school principal, had played a
part in the school board election, and appeared to be one of the principal
figures in the newly-formed School Improvement Association. This was
Mr. Albin Czerniawski.
Thomas looked up Czerniawski 's background and discovered that he
had been a member of the Independent Progressive Party in California.
This prompted him to make inquiries of Czerniawski 's friends, neigh-
bors, business associates, and his colleagues in the School Improvement
Association. Czerniawski, when he first learned that Thomas was en-
gaged in probing into his past, became resentful and soon the affair
had developed to a point where the supporters of Thomas, on the one
hand, and the supporters of Czerniawski, on the other, gave rise to an
almost unbelievable atmosphere of suspicion and hostility.
This was not abated when Mr. Thomas, in the issue of his paper for
May 21, 1954, printed a photostatic reproduction of Czerniawski 's reg-
istration in the Independent Progressive Party, together with a quota-
tion from the fourth report of this committee to the effect that the In-
dependent Progressive Party in this State was Communist dominated.
In that connection it should be noted that Mr. Hugh Bryson, former
state head of the Independent Progressive Party, was recently charged
with having lied when he stated under oath that he was not a Com-
munist, and ordered to stand trial for perjury.
The article from the Westminster Herald is as follows:
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 6
"Bare Affiliation of Improvement Man
"Threats, Dares and Punch to Editor Leads to Disclosure
"A slip backwards towards violence and secrecy took place last
week at Paysen's Sundries where Albin Czerniawski came into
the business place and caused a public disturbance, threatening the
Herald editor with murder if the Westminster Herald continued to
look into past possible activities of Czerniawski.
"With the death threat, Czerniawski without warning landed a
blow to the jaw of the Herald editor. Printed alongside this article
is a voter's affidavit of registration by Czerniawski into the Inde-
pendent Progressive Party.
1 ' The Herald takes the dare this week to print some inside infor-
mation about this improvement association official who for some
reason will provoke violence if an inquiry is made about him. Mr.
Czerniawski opened himself to inquiry when he took an active part
in the school affairs of this community ; when he told the improve-
ment association that 'we have got to meet secretly or the opposi-
tion will disrupt our meeting'; when he warned a free American
newspaper of the results if there was any further investigating.
Does that warning apply also to any other citizens of the com-
munity who dare question this man in the improvement associa-
tion? Czerniawski holds position of assistant membership chair-
man of the improvement association.
' ' We are printing this above editor 's note and the following data
on the Independent Progressive Party, of which Czerniawski was
a member as we would if we found strange affiliations with any
public official.
"We believe that the schoolroom is a sensitive area wherein the
minds are shaped toward the society in which we live. There is
vital concern here, for we must preserve the integrity of the
schools.
"The teachers and the officials maintain this integrity and the
fact that they are entrusted with this duty gives a very proper
right of inquiry into the organizations and persons with whom
they associate.
"Likewise, citizenry who organize to 'advise' our schools, no
doubt exerting pressure here and there, should also submit to in-
quiry as to associations of its members. From time immemorial,
one's reputation has been determined in part by the company he
keeps.
"Many good Americans have lost sight of vitally important
questions in today's election. This has been brought about in agi-
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
tations that have in all too many eases greatly confused persons
unwary of deceit, either knowingly or unknowingly.
"We do not know what the present political affiliations of this
person are. "We are not making any insinuations that he is of any
particular belief but only presenting evidence and presenting
comments of the State Committee on Un-American Activities in
reference to the Independent Progressive Party. A. Czerniawski
registered in 1948 into the Independent Progressive Party and
following is the report of that committee on the IPP.
"The Un-American Activities Committee made the following
statement of fact concerning un-American organizations including
the Independent Progressive Party. This data is taken from the
Fourth Report of the Un-American Activities in California,
page 62.
" 'Communists have no more use for parliamentary govern-
ment than they have for capitalism. They seek to destroy both.
The one basic goal of Communism is to eliminate capitalism and
its parliamentary government, and replace them with a brutal,
totalitarian police state under the dictatorship of the proletariat.'
"Wherever Red Fascism has snuffed out liberty and freedom,
the first things to go were civil rights, capitalism and parliamen-
tary government. Just as the Communists in America sneeringly
and cynically take advantage of our freedoms and liberties, so do
they pervert and corrupt our political and legislative process wher-
" 'The committee (on Un-American Activities in California)
has discovered and reported repeatedly, that the Communists
work incessantly to pervert and destroy every institution that
does not fit into their pattern of revolutionary conspiracy. No-
where has this Communist strategy been pursued more consist-
ently and relentlessly than in the fields of politics and legislation.
" 'The most recent consolidation of this Communist program
of legislative and political activity through front organizations,
has been the recent coalition of a series of Communist front
organizations under the banner of the Third Party Movement to
elect Henry Wallace President of the United States.
" 'In California, the basic Communist front organizations in
this coalition are the Progressive Citizens of America, Independ-
ent Progessive Party, California Legislative Conference, Com-
munist-controlled trade unions in the C. I. 0., the "Wallace
Democrats" caucus in the Democratic Party, Progressive A. F.
of L., and a student movement for Wallace, sponsored by Ameri-
can Youth for Democracy.
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 5
" 'Behind a facade of specious promises of "peace, progress
and prosperity," the Third Party movement has proceeded with
mechanical precision, following every twist and turn of the
Communist Party line on foreign affairs and domestic issues.
" ' It has conducted its activities in such a manner as to stamp
itself as an American tool of the international Communist con-
spiracy. Its policies, tactics and appeals fit the specifications for
every type of Communist front organization described and classi-
fied in the entire report of this committee, and it follows the
party ' ' line ' ' meticulously.
" 'The Third Party movement to elect Henry Wallace is the
creature of the Community Party. Its policies, programs, organi-
zation, structure, public relations, personnel and directing lead-
ership have all followed and now follow the Communist Party
pattern with unbroken monotony. Its key personnel are known
Communists, fellow-travelers and veteran apologists for Soviet
Russia and American Communism.
" 'Hugh Bryson, state chairman of the Independent Progres-
sive Party in California, is a Communist and a veteran of Com-
munist conspiratorial activity in the Marine Cooks and Stewards
Union, C. I. 0.'"
Elsewhere in the same issue of the newspaper, this item appeared :
"An altercation last week between Albion Czerniawski and L. W.
Thomas, Herald editor, has called for a clarification of the affair.
"Czerniawski came upon the Herald editor in Paysan's Sundries,
voiced his objections of the Herald investigating his past. Czerniaw-
ski, who is proprietor of the A-C Hardware, told the newsman that
he felt mad enough to kill him and without warning landed a blow
to the publisher's jaw. Czerniawski then stepped back and threat-
ened to kill the editor if the investigation was continued.
"The Herald, this week, is printing on page 3 a certain amount
of information relative to subversive organizations. Also a photo-
static copy of a document signed by Czerniawski.
"Even though there are some papers which consider it bad taste
to mention the word Communist Party, we are carrying on page 3
of this issue comments of a state senatorial committee.
"Mr. Czerniawski 's murder threat to the Herald editor is added
reason to shed a little light on the subject in order to prove the
integrity of the paper which Czerniawski may have placed in
question.
"This paper has its choice of either knuckling down under this
influential improvement association member, or take the challenge.
The Westminster Herald does not compromise with threats.
6 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
"This paper has before been under attack for its freedom of the
press by Czerniawski and his improvement association, who have
attempted to stifle the press in such manner as to try to bring suit,
force arrest of reporters for so-called covering 'public' meetings
and has tried to confiscate film and records, without success.
"Czerniawski is assistant membership chairman of the School
Improvement Association according to the "West Orange County
News and his membership headquarters is in his store. ' '
Photostatic document reprinted in the Westminster Herald, which also
carried the articles above quoted, was executed in Orange County on
September 13, 1948, signed by Albin Czerniawski, 14151 Locust Street,
Westminster, and was numbered 278328. He switched his political affil-
iation to the Democratic Party on September 7, 1950. As will be seen,
there was some confusion concerning the exact language exchanged
between the two men in the Westminster pharmacy immediately pre-
ceding the event described by Mr. Thomas. There is no question about
his being struck in the face by Czerniawski, but here, too, the record
becomes somewhat cloudy; Thomas describes the blow as "a punch in
the jaw," and Czerniawski as "a slap in the face."
These matters are mentioned and the articles are cited to indicate the
feeling that existed between the two principals. As local partisans took
sides, the feeling naturally increased and since the population of
Westminster is only about 1500, the newspaper publicity and the close
personal contact between the inhabitants in this community resulted
in a situation whereby almost everyone had become interested in the
matter in one way or another by the time our public hearing opened
on July 28, 1954.
The committee had been requested to hold an open hearing in April
or May, but discovered that a local school board election had been set
for May 21st, and, therefore, refused to hold any hearing or issue
any statement until after the election had been held. We quote liberally
from the transcript of the public hearing, together with documents
submitted by the respective parties, in the hope that the situation will
thereby be settled and the local tensions relaxed.
PUBLIC HEARING, LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA
JULY 28, 1954
Several days prior to the beginning of the committee's inquiry into
the Westminster matter, it had been listening to witnesses in a public
hearing held in Koom 115, California State Building, Los Angeles,
California. At the conclusion of the other matters on the committee's
program, it concluded by taking testimony from the witnesses from
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA (
Westminster, and in that connection the following introductory state-
ment was made.
"Mr. Combs: The next matter on the agenda, Mr. Chairman, is
the Westminster matter, which is in an entirely separate category
from the evidence which has been adduced before the committee
up to this point. There were two or three witnesses that we ex-
pected to be here yesterday, but who were unable to attend, one
by reason of illness and two by reason of the fact that they were
not in the city. This last phase of the hearing will deal solely with
the Westminster situation. As the chairman is aware, the com-
mittee began three or four or five months ago to receive letters
and telephone calls from people residing in the Westminster area,
charging that there were subversive influences that were having
an adverse effect on the educational system and on the general
community atmosphere in the Westminster area and immediate
vicinity. The committee intended to go into the matter at an
earlier date, but discovered that there was some kind of a local
election in the city of Westminster, or in the school district, I am
not clear which, and followed its consistent policy of staying out
of any community political matters and therefore deferred the
hearing until this time so that we would not intrude in the local
political matters. An election was held in May, and while this
subject is a little out of context of the hearing that has been
conducted up to this point — I have talked to the people that I
consider to be the principal witnesses on either side and told them
if they preferred to have this hearing in executive session the
committee would be happy to accommodate them. They both ex-
pressed a desire to have the committee hear the entire matter
in open session. I wish to make it very clear to everyone here that
the committee regards this as an exploratory hearing. It has
sent no investigators into the Westminster area. The committee
believed it would be most helpful if the leading actors on both
sides came before the committee and testified under oath, and
perhaps no further action will have to be taken. The committee's
only jurisdiction is in connection with the alleged subversive
matters. It has no jurisdiction to go into local political matters,
or in the way the schools are conducted or with regard to the
personalities on the school board, unless some subversive element
is involved.
"With that, Mr. Chairman, I would like to call to the stand
Mr. Albin Czerniawski. "
Mr. Czerniawski testified that he resided at 7181 Westminster
Avenue, in Westminster, California, and had resided in that city
8 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
continuously since 1947. He stated that he was born in Canada and
came to the United States by way of Detroit, Michigan, in 1924, and
became a naturalized American citizen in February, 1930. He had
resided in Long Beach during part of 1947 at 2316 Caspian Avenue,
and in 1950 had resided at 1451 Locust Street in the city of West-
minster.
Regarding his affiliation in a Communist front organization known
as the International Workers Order, Mr. Czerniawski testified as
follows :
Question by Mr. Combs : Mr. Czerniawski, did you ever hear
of an organization known as the International Workers Orderf
'' Answer : Yes, sir.
Q. Were you ever affiliated with that organization?
:A. Yes, sir.
Q. Or any of its branches?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. At what period of time?
A. From 1936, right after the depression. I was out of work
for a long time. As soon as I got back to work — during the depres-
sion I had lost all of my insurance. I didn't carry any insurance
for myself or the family. Our insurance agent came to the door
and solicited insurance. He told me what the rates were. It sounded
very reasonable so I signed up. It was the International Workers
Order. Tt was the Polish branch of the International Workers
Order.
"Q. As a matter of fact, the International Workers Order is
composed of what they call lodges, isn 't it ?
"A. That is right. It is a fraternal order.
"Q. It is composed of a group of various racial lodges?
"A. That is right.
"Q. Including of course Americans?
"A. That is right.
"Q. They have units of their organization all over the United
States ?
"A. That is right.
"Q. Go ahead.
"A. After I became a member I attended meetings maybe two
or three times a year.
"Q. Where were the meetings held?
"A. At individual homes of the members.
"Q. At residences?
"A. At residences, that is right.
' ' Q. These meetings that were held at the residences were in the
immediate vicinity of the area where you lived ?
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 9
A. That is right.
Q. So that it was convenient to attend?
A. That is right.
Q. These people were friends of yours?
A. No, not particularly. They were no friends of mine.
Q. Did they become friends of yours as a result of attending
the meetings?
A. Acquaintances.
; Q. All right.
'A. I can truthfully say that at no time during any of those
meetings was anything said against our Country, anything deroga-
tory against our Country. After the second World War, our main
purpose was to raise funds to help the orphans and widows in
Poland because Poland was destroyed. The biggest percent of
Poland was destroyed.
' ' Q. Do you have any relatives presently residing in Poland ?
' ' A. I don 't know of any, but I probably have because my folks
came from there. In fact, they raised funds to buy farm machinery,
farm tools, horses, and so forth. In fact I donated a hundred dollars
toward the purchase of a horse in this Country, to ship a work
horse to Poland.
"Q. When was that?
"A. That was four or five years ago.
"Q. Four or five years ago?
"A. Right after this World War, right after the war, about 104S.
"Q. About 1948?
"A. Something like that.
"Q. All right.
"A. Now I understand that organization is nonexistent.
"Q. That is, the International Workers Order?
"A. That is right. It is nonexistent. The New York State Insur-
ance Board has taken it over.
"Q. The New York State Insurance Board has taken it over?
"A. That is right. It has disbanded.
"Q. How did you gain that information, Mr. Czerniawski?
"A. Well, I was sent that information from New York. Now !
pay my insurance to the State of New York.
"Q. You pay your I. W. 0. insurance premiums to the State of
New York?
"A. That is right.
"Q. To the Insurance Commissioner in New York?
"A. Something like that.
"Q. He is the custodian of the I. W. 0. in New York ?
"A. I guess that is it. I don't know too much about it.
10 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
"Q. The head office of the International Workers Order was in
New York, wasn 't it ?
"A. Yes.
"Q. So it would have jurisdiction over all of the subordinate
units of the organizations throughout the Country ?
"A. I suppose it would.
"Q. You don't know that?
"A. No.
' ' Q. You affiliated with that organization how long ago ?
"A. 1936.
' ' Q. Your membership actually continues until the present time ?
"A. That is right, sir.
"Q. With the exception that you just pay your premiums to the
New York Insurance Commissioner?
' ' A. That is right. He sent me a bill and I sent a check.
"Q. But you never resigned from it or anything like that?
"A. No, I haven't.
"Q. You have never been expelled?
"A. No.
"Q. Do you still attend any meetings of the organization?
"A. Never.
"Q. Do you still maintain social contacts with the persons who
were members and at whose homes you attended meetings?
"A. No, sir. For that matter I haven't seen any of the members
for years, several years.
"Q. So you don't know whether they still belong or whether they
are in the same category as you are or not ?
' ' A. That is right. However I could name several other organiza-
tions I belong to also.
"Q. Let me ask a few more questions and after I have finished
you can give us any organizational data you wish.
"A. Fine.
"Q. Were you affiliated from 1947 until 1952 or thereabouts
with an organization known as the American Polish Society?
"A. No. I never heard of that organization.
"Q. You don't know anything about that at all?
"A. Not that society.
11 Q. Do you know of a publication called The Daily People's World?
"A. I have heard of it, yes.
"Q. Did you ever subscribe to it?
"A. The Daily People's World — I think I did for a six-month
period in 1946, 1 believe.
"Q. In 1946?
"A. Yes, sir.
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 11
' ' Q. For six months ?
"A. Yes. It was a dollar. They asked for a dollar and they sent
the publication for six months.
"Q. Did you subscribe to that through your contacts with the
International Workers Order ?
"A. No. Someone in the particular neighborhood came up to my
place of business and asked me.
"Q. That was when you were residing where?
"A. One of my customers in Long Beach.
"Q. Did you yourself ever sell any subscriptions to the paper
or persuade anyone to subscribe to it ?
"A. Never.
"Q. You never did?
"A. Never.
" Q. You took it you say for six months ?
"A. Yes.
' ' Q. Why did you cease taking it ?
"A. I wasn't interested. There was nothing in it to interest me.
"Q. Did you know anything about its political character?
"A. What is that?
"Q. The political nature of the Daily People's World?
"A. Yes. I don't know that I can define it properly. It —
' ' Q. Was it an anti-Communist paper ?
1 ' A. No, I wouldn 't say that.
" Q. Was it opposed to Communism ?
"A. No, I wouldn't say it was opposed to Communism.
' ' Q. In other words, it seemed like there was nothing derogatory
against our country there ?
"A. No.
' ' Q. It was just a run-of-the-mill paper ?
"A. That's the way I took it.
"Q. Did it seem to you to be fair and objective in its reporting?
"A. Well, I didn't study it enough.
' ' Q. You did not read it very closely ?
"A. No, sir. I was busy many times it came in and it wound up
in the wastebasket.
"Q. You threw it in the wastebasket?
"A. That's right.
"Q. But did you read it enough to form an opinion that it
apparently was a run-of-the-mill newspaper?
"A. Well, I read the headlines in it, but that is about as far
as it went.
"Q. You just read the headlines?
"A. Yes.
12 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
"Q. I think you could probably form a pretty good opinion
from reading the headlines.
"A. Yes, I could.
"Q. And you did?
"A. Well, like I told you, there was nothing there that would
interest me.
' ' Q. But you also testified I think that you found nothing derog-
atory in it.
"A. That's right, as much as I read.
"Q. Did you ever notice any mention in the paper of the Soviet
Union or the countries behind the Iron Curtain, including Poland ?
" A. I don 't believe I did.
' ' Q. You don 't believe you ever saw any mention of them ?
"A. No.
"Q. Did you ever hear of a publication called In Fact, a maga-
zine?
"A. Yes.
' ' Q. And did you ever subscribe to that ?
"A.I did, sir.
" Q. "Where were you living then ?
"A.I lived in Westminster.
" Q. So that would be after 1947 ?
"A. That's right.
"Q. How did you happen to subscribe to that, Mr. Czerniawski?
"A. Some party asked me to donate a dollar to subscribe to
t he publication.
" Q. Do you remember who that person was ?
"A. I don't believe I do.
" Q. Was it a neighbor of yours ?
"A. No, it was not a neighbor. It was a party who lived, I be-
lieve, in Huntington Beach somewhere.
' ' Q. Someone who lived in Huntington Beach ?
"A. That's right, when I joined the Progressive Party.
"Q. The Independent Progressive Party?
"A. The Independent Progressive Party. That was when they
contacted me.
"Q. When did you join the Independent Progressive Party?
"A. Well, when Henry Wallace was running for President, I
guess.
" Q. You were living where then ?
"A. Westminster.
"Q. After you joined did somebody come to see you who was
a member of the Independent Progressive Party?
"A. I suppose so.
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 13
' ' Q. And asked you to subscribe to In Fact?
"A. Yes, sir.
' ' Q. Which you did for a dollar ?
"A. Yes, sir.
"Q. Who was the editor for that publication, if you know?
"A. I don't remember.
' ' Q. Was it a man named Seldes ?
"A. That sounds familiar.
"Q. George Seldes?
"A. It sounds familiar, but I am not quite sure.
" Q. Did you read that magazine at all ?
"A. Very seldom. I threw it in the wastebasket.
' ' Q. You threw it in the wastebasket, too ?
"A. That is right. The reason I subscribed to these different
ones, since I am in business I thought it would be advantageous
as far as advertising is concerned, you know.
" Q. Advertising in the magazine do you mean ?
"A. No. It would be good business when a customer asked me
to donate or subscribe to something I generaly did.
"Q. Was the person who asked you to subscribe to the People's
World one of your customers ? •
"A. Yes.
"Q. The person who asked you to subscribe to In Fact was one of
your customers ?
"A. That is right.
"Q. Had you known either of them in the International Work-
ers Order?
" A. No.
' ' Q. But the second one you believed you had some contact with
through the Independent Progressive Party?
"A. It must have been because they got my name from the list
somehow, from the registration list.
"Q. I show you a photostatic copy of a document which pur-
ports to be an affidavit of registration and ask you if that is a cor-
rect facsimile of your signature, Mr. Czerniawski ?
"A. It is, sir. I have seen it before.
"Q. Of course, you signed the original, did you not?
"A. That is right.
"Q. Mr. Czerniawski, did anybody ever solicit you to become
a member of the Communist Party, ask you to join at any time?
"A. No, sir. I never would join.
1 ' Q. You never joined the Communist Party ?
"A. No, and I would never have joined if they asked me.
' ' Q. You never did join ?
14 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
"A. I never did join.
"Q. Have you ever been a member of the Communist Political
Association?
"A. I should say not.
"Q. Which was another name for the Communist Party. Have
you ever been a member of any Communist front organization ?
"A. Not that I know of.
" Q. Not that you know of ?
"A. No, sir.
"Q. Did you know that the International Workers Order was
designated by the United States Department of Justice as a Com-
munist front ?
"A. No, sir, I didn't.
"Q. Did you know that the Insurance Commissioner in the State
of New York brought a lawsuit to prevent the organization from
doing business on the ground that it was a Communist front and
that the courts held that it was a Communist front ?
"A. That I didn't know. I was not posted on it and I was not
interested. I was busy working.
' ' Q. Did you know that the publication In Fact had been charac-
terized as a pro-Communist publication and is now no longer pub-
lished ?
"A. That I didn't know either.
"Q. Did you know that the Daily People's World is the propa-
ganda organ for the Communist Party of California ?
"A. It probably is, but I am not too well informed on that,
either.
" Q. When you say 'probably, ' what do you mean 1
"A. Well, as you have mentioned, that it is — it probably is. I
don 't know.
"Q. How long did your affiliation with the Independent Pro-
gressive Party continue ?
' ' A. Just for that one election.
" Q. It ceased thereafter ?
"A. That's right. I am a Democrat. I always have been, and
I went back to the Democratic Party, but I felt at that particular
time that Wallace would have been a better man.
"Q. The only reason we asked about the Independent Progres-
sive Party is that it has been characterized not as being a Commu-
nist organization, but as being dominated by Communists at
the top.
"A. I see.
"Q. There is some evidence, some of it before this committee,
that the head of it in California, Hugh Bryson, chairman of the
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 15
Marine Cooks and Stewards Union in San Francisco, is a Com-
munist Party member. Obviously the committee is interested in
that, while it is not interested in the other political parties toward
which no such accusation has been mentioned to my knowledge.
"A. That is the reason I joined the Independent Progressive
Party.
"Q. Mr. Czerniawski, will you please describe the organization
in Westminster if you know anything about it ? By the way, do you
still reside there ?
"A. Yes, I do.
" Q. You are in the paint business there ?
"A. I am in the hardware business.
"Q. Do you know of an organization known as the Tri-City
Advisory Committee, are you familiar with that at all?
"A. No, sir, I am not.
" Q. You know nothing about it whatsoever ?
' ' A. No, sir, not a thing.
"Q. Do you know anything about an organization known as
the School Improvement Association?
"A. Yes, I do.
"Q. "Would you mind describing in your own way to the com-
mittee what that is and how it started ?
"A. I will give you what I know about it. I will tell you what I
know about it. When the organization was formed I was asked to
join. They told me what it was for. The school board at that time
was going to float a big state loan.
"Q. It was interested in school matters?
"A. It was interested in school matters, that is right. They were
going to float a big bond issue for new schools. We didn't need
them at the present time. It would have affected our tax rates. I
am a taxpayer, therefore I joined.
"Q. The organization was already in operation when you were
asked to join it?
' ' A. That is right.
"Q. Do you know who was instrumental in starting it, or how
long it had been in existence ?
"A. I am not quite sure. Mr. Leonard Fry was the chairman
of the organization. He asked me to join.
"Q. Is he here today ?
' ' A. No. He had to work.
' ' Q. That was the School Improvement Association, was it ?
' ' A. That is right.
' ' Q. Do you know a man by the name of Lyle Richards ?
' ' A. Yes, sir.
16 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
" Q. Is he here today ?
' ' A. No, sir.
"Q. Does the School Improvement Association still exist?
' ' A. Yes, sir, as far as I know it does.
"Q. Of what does its membership consist? Is it limited to the
City of Westminster or is it spread over a larger area ?
"A. It is limited to the Westminster School District.
" Q. Westminster is in Orange County ?
' ' A. Yes, sir.
' ' Q. Where is it located with reference to the county seat ?
"A. Santa Ana I understand is the county seat.
"Q. Yes.
"A. It is west of Santa Ana.
"Q. How far?
' ' A. About seven or eight miles.
"Q. You say the membership comprises people extending
how far ?
' ' A. The Westminster School District.
"Q. Does that include other cities in addition to Westminster?
"A. I don't believe so.
" Q. You don 't believe so ?
"A. No.
' ' Q. Did you attend meetings of this organization ?
' ' A. You said other cities ?
"Q. Yes.
"A. I don't know how you would define it. I said Westminster
School District, It comprises Westminster, Barber City, Midway
City and Sun Gardens, which are little county communities, but
they are in the Westminster School District.
"Q. That explains it. In connection with your membership and
participation in this organization, the School Improvement Associ-
ation, have you been accused of being a Communist or belonging
to a subversive organization ?
"A. I have, sir.
" Q. When did that sort of activity originate ?
"A. Well, it originated four or five years ago, but I tried to
run it down. I have tried every possible way to run it down. How-
ever, I could not. It was one of these whispering campaigns.
' ' Q. Had you had similar experience before that time ?
"A. No, sir.
"Q. While you were a member of the International Workers
Order?
' ' A. No, sir.
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 17
" Q. Did anyone accuse you of belonging to a Communist domi-
nated organization ?
"A. No, sir. Then I went to the FBI in Santa Ana and told
them that I was in business in "Westminster, that I was a business-
man there, that there was a rumor going around, a whispering
campaign, that I was a Communist.
" Q. About when did you do this ?
"A. About four years ago.
"Q. AU right.
"A. I told them that if I was a Communist they would know
about it, and I knew I wasn't, therefore I would like to have them
give me a clearance of some kind that would show I was not a
Communist.
"They said, 'Mr. Czerniawski, we are not authorized to give
anyone clearance. If you were a Communist it would be none of
our affair. If you were able to find out who started this rumor
then they would be subject to civil suit ; you could take them to a
civil court.' I could not get any help there, and I started asking
people about it.
"Q. You could not get any help for the reasons they explained
to you ?
"A. That is right.
"Q. They said they were not permitted by law to issue clear-
ance?
"A. I don't know what the law was. I just went there.
"Q. I understand, but it was the natural thing to do.
"A. I asked the people in town where did they get the infor-
mation. They all just clammed up and wouldn't tell me the start
of it or what. So it went on.
"Q. What is the population of "Westminster, roughly?
"A. I believe about 1,200, somewhere around there.
"Q. Proceed.
"A. It went on for years that way until this thing came up. I
have a statement here from a party which I would like to show to
you, saying that I was called a Communist by a certain party
(handing document to counsel).
"Mr. Combs: Let the record show that the witness has handed
to the committee a hand written document consisting of one page,
written in ink, dated the 26th of July, 1954.
' ' The Witness : This incident happened on July 10th.
' ' Mr. Combs : Do you wish up to read this into the record ?
' ' The Witness : Yes, sir.
"Mr. Combs: You do?
' ' The Witness : Yes, sir.
18 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
"Mr. Combs: It reads as follows: 'To Whom it May Concern:
This is to certify that on May 10, 1954 I was in Paysan's Drug
Store in Yvrestminster and I heard a man call Mr. Czerniawski a
Communist. Mr. Czerniawski slapped him. This fellow left and Mr.
Czerniawski apologized to Mrs. Paysan. F. A. Wood, 7/26/54,
12362 Stanton Avenue, Garden Grove.'
' ' The Witness : Here is another one.
"Mr. Combs: Let the record show the witness handed to the
committee a hand written document consisting of a folded sheet of
about a page and three-quarters which contains handwriting in
ink and in pencil. It is signed by Mrs. Mary Cleo Hyans of 2533
Jackson Street, Dominguez, Long Beach 10, California. It is dated
May 11, 1954. Do you wish us to read this into the record also?
"The Witness: Yes, sir.
"Mr. Combs: It reads as follows: 'To whom it May Concern:
On April 30, 1954, Mr. Lloyd Thomas and Mr. Edwards called on
me and led me to believe that they were from some type of law
enforcement and asked me about Mr. Albin Czerniawski 's political
standing. Also asked me if they ever had meetings in their home
or ever had company and what they talked about. Also asked me
about a locksmith who came to the store to see Mr. Czerniawski.
I worked for Mr. Czerniawski from 1940 to 1941, about 18 months.
I want to say I never worked for anyone as nice and thoughtful
as Mr. and Mrs. Czerniawski, and new knew anyone more loyal to
the U. S. A. than the Czerniawski family. I never heard them ever
say anything against our government at any time. Mr. Thomas also
asked me about their social life here in Dominguez. '
"It is signed by Mrs. Mary Cleo Hyans, 2533 Jackson Street,
Dominguez, Long Beach 10, California.
"How many more do you have?
"The Witness: There aren't very many more, sir.
"Mr. Combs : Let the record show the witness has handed to the
committee a single paged handwritten document in pencil, dated
May 11, 1954, signed H. Taylor, addressed To Whom it May
Concern.
" 'Mr. Lloyd Thomas and his partner called at our place of
business and questioned us about the background of one Albin
Czerniawski, as to whom his friends were etc. We could not give
them very much information concerning Mr. Czerniawski as we
knew nothing derogatory to his character, either political or other-
wise. They went through all of the motions of taking a picture
of our store.'
"It is signed by H. Taylor, 2652 Monroe Street, Dominguez.
"The Witness: Here is another one.
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 19
' ' Mr. Combs : The witness submits a typed document dated May
13, 1954. A single sheet of paper addressed to Mr. Albin Czer-
niawski, Westminster, California. It reads as follows:
" 'Dear Mr. Czerniawski: On April 30 inst. I was contacted
by two gentlemen who tried to give the impression they were
some type of law officials. On asking for identification I was
handed a business card with the name of Lloyd Thomas of the
Westminster Herald.
" 'At this time I told them that from 1939 to 1942 you and
your family had been residents of this community; conducted
a general merchandise business here, and to the best of my knowl-
edge there had been no question as to your character and loyalty.
" 'Both my wife and I felt that you and Mrs. Czerniawski
were hard working and energetic people who were community
and civic minded.
" 'Sincerely, (signed) Walter K. Luck, 2672 Jackson, Long
Beach 10, California.'
' ' The Witness : Now, here is one from a local man where I live in
Westminster. It is more a letter of what my character is.
"Mr. Combs: The witness has handed the committee a document
consisting of a single page which he says contains a statement as
to his character certification. Is that right?
' ' The Witness : Yes, sir.
' ' Mr. Combs : Do you wish me to read it into the record ?
' ' The Witness : Yes, sir.
' ' Mr. Combs : It reads as follows :
" '1392 Cedar Street, Westminster, California, Tuesday, July
27, 1954.
" 'To Whom it May Concern:
" 'I welcome this opportunity to make a very definite state-
ment regarding the character and behavior of my friend and
close neighbor, Albin Czerniawski.
"During the past eight years there have been but few days
in which I have not met, talked, associated and done business
with him. I can truthfully say that on each and every occasion
he has conducted himself and his business in a clean, public
spirited manner. The fact that he registered and voted the Inde-
pendent Progressive ticket in a recent election now seems to
denote a subversive character by a certain newspaper publisher.
" 'I learned today that my friend has been called to answer
a charge that he is subversive. I am happy that we live in a
country where such accusations may be made and where the
accused is given the privilege of answering the charges. I trust
his answers will fully exonerate him of the accusation.
20 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
" 'Free elections (the true basis of our democracy) very
correctly air the character of the candidates for election. The
will of the majority should be accepted by the minority. The
very fact that we have elections whereby we elect national, state,
county, city — yes, even school trustees, is an acknowledgement
that our present laws and officials are not perfect. Otherwise
we would write the word finis on the last page of our law books
and the officials would be elected for life terms. If the minority
in some of our school elections were able to carry their defeat
to their desired ends I am afraid the county would soon become
engaged in countless little civil wars and rebellions.
" 'Walter R.Pope.'
"Q. Now, Mr. Czerniawski, is that the extent of the documents
you wanted to read ?
"A. Except for derogatory statements in the newspapers, but
they are quite lengthy.
"Q. Obviously we cannot read all these things into the record.
If you wish to submit them to us we will be happy to attach them
to your testimony. If you want to submit them for the record, you
may do so.
"A. Yes, I will do that, too.
"Mr. Combs: Let the record show the witness has handed to
the committee a folder containing newspaper tear sheets and
clippings, all of which will be received and will be attached to
the record in connection with the testimony of the witness.
"Q. Mr. Czerniawski, do you belong to any other organization
in Westminster similar in character to this School Improvement
Association ?
"A. No, sir.
"Q. That is the only one you have ever been affiliated with in
Westminster ?
"A. No, sir, I belong to the Odd Fellows.
"Q. No, I didn't mean that. I mean similar to this citizens
organization.
"A. No, sir. I belong to the Independent Order of Foresters —
the Independent Order of Foresters.
"Q. I don't believe anybody has ever called that a front or-
ganization.
"A. I belonged to the Moose Lodge, and for several years I
belonged to the St. Nipomotz Church Society.
"Q. You appreciate, Mr. Czerniawski, that there is a great
difference between the organizations you have mentioned and or-
ganizations like the International Workers Order which has been
characterized as a Communist organization over and over again?
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 21
"A. At the time I joined it it was not characterized as that.
"Q. "When was it so characterized?
" A. I have no idea when it was. At that time it was an organiza-
tion I joined for the insurance benefit. It did not have any in-
surance at that time. I had three little children, my wife and three
little children. I thought if something happened to me that would
be the best thing to do, to take out insurance, which in my estima-
tion was very reasonable at that time and I could afford to carry it.
"I would like to also state that I have a son who was in service
in World War II and in the Korean war. He received honorable
discharges from both services. Now he is employed as an ac-
countant.
"Q. I neglected to ask you in connection with your membership
in the International Workers Order whether or not you received
a publication of any kind, such as a paper or circular or anything
from that organization ?
' ' A. No, sir.
' ' Q. They published nothing to your knowledge ?
' ' A. No, sir, not to my knowledge.
"Q. Of course the fact that the Daily People's World is a propa-
ganda medium for the Communist Party of California would in-
dicate that it had been subject to scrutiny and suspicion by a great
many official agencies. Is that right ?
"A. I suppose it would, but I would never subscribe to anything
like that. This was the first time I was interested and I wanted to
know what it was about. That is not the only paper I subscribed to.
I subscribed to the Press-Telegram, a Long Beach paper, and I have
for many years, and then the Los Angeles Examiner.
"Q. What about the Westminster Herald?
"A. I am sorry. I have not subscribed to that paper. However,
I gave the Westminster Herald plenty of my business as far as print-
ing goes, and I have ads in their paper.
"Mr. Combs: Unless you have something else to add, that is all.
If you can think of anything else you want to testify about, you
may do so.
' ' The Witness : I don 't believe so. ' '
TESTIMONY OF LLOYD W. THOMAS
Mr. Thomas was the next witness called to the stand and testified as
follows :
''Question by Mr. Combs: Will you state your full name please?
"A. Lloyd W. Thomas.
"Q. Where do you reside ?
22 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
"A. 8701 20th Street, Westminster.
' ' Q. How long have you resided at that address ?
' ' A. Six years.
' ' Q. Your business is what ?
' ' A. Newspaper publishing and printing.
" Q. What is the name of the newspaper ?
"A. Westminster Herald.
"Q. And how long have you been publisher of that newspaper?
"A. I have been publisher with my father about two years. The
paper has been in the family about nine and a half years.
"Q. Are you acquainted with the witness who preceded you, Mr.
Czerniawski ?
"A. Yes, sir.
' ' Q. How long have you known him ?
"A. Since about 1947.
"Q. As a newspaper man, as a citizen, or in any other capacity
for that matter, did you conduct any inquiry into the origin and
nature of the School Improvement Association in Westminster?
"A. Yes, sir.
' ' Q. Did you endeavor to ascertain anything about the political
affiliations and beliefs of Mr. Czerniawski?
"A. Yes.
" Q. How did you happen to do that ?
"A. Having knowledge of his party membership, the Independ-
ent Progressive Party, and his affiliations with the School Im-
provement Association, I thought I should make some inquiry.
"Q. Was he then active in the organization to which I have re-
ferred, the School Improvement Association?
"A. Yes, sir.
"Q. He was?
"A. Yes.
" Q. Before you started this investigation did you know anything
about his affiliation with the International Workers Order?
"A. No, sir.
"Q. Did you know anything about the fact that he had been a
subscriber for a period of six months to the Daily People's World?
"A. Not before the investigation.
"Q. Did you ever independently develop that information, I
mean on your own? Did you discover those facts?
"A. The information on the Daily People's World came from a
former resident who came into my office and notified me of that
fact.
' ' Q. About when did this occur ?
"A. About three months ago.
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 23
' ' Q. Did you ascertain that he had belonged to the International
Workers Order t
"A. I have heard reference to that, but I had no proof.
"Q. Before, during or after the period of your investigation?
"A. During my inquiry.
' ' Q. Your inquiry commenced about when, how long ago was it ?
"A. I became the most curious beginning January 11, 1954.
"Q. "Would you tell as briefly as you can, without omitting any-
thing pertinent, the circumstances that led to your interest in Mr.
Czerniawski and this organization?
"A. I had learned of a supposedly open and civic meeting to
take place the night of January 11th at the home of Lyle Kichards.
[ called Mr. Richards at 7.30 and told him I would like to attend.
' ' Q. Is Mr. Richards a resident of Westminster ?
"A. Yes, sir. Mr. Richards is treasurer of the Tri-City Improve-
ment Association, I believe.
' ' A Voice : Not the Tri-City.
' ' The Witness : Or the School Improvement Association, excuse
me. Upon arrival at Mr. Richards' house at 7.50 p.m. he informed
me that the meeting had been called off. However, later in the
evening, about 9 o'clock, Mr. Edwards and I came across what
we believed to be the same meeting in another person's house, in
the home of Leonard Fry, later to be known as Chairman of the
Improvement Association.
"Q. He is a resident of Westminster, and was at that time?
"A. Yes. Mr. Fry denied any knowledge of the meeting, of an
organization, of any minutes or any officers or name of an organ-
ization when I inquired as to whether or not a meeting had trans-
pired. Mr. Czerniawski was present at this meeting I mentioned.
"Q. Did you see him?
"A. Yes, sir. Later I inquired from Mr. Fry if the meetings
were to continue and were they to be open to the public and the
press. He said no. Having some knowledge of Mr. Czerniawski 's
past affiliation with the Independent Progressive Party, and that
possibly he was now interested in the Improvement Association and
in our local school affairs, and because the meeting was closed to
the public and the press, Mr. Edwards and I took the liberty of
listening in on the meeting from the attic of the Odd Fellows hall,
inasmuch as we were barred from the meeting itself, although
other reporters were allowed in.
"Q. Your effort to go to that meeting, the one you described as
being held at the home of Mr. Fry, occurred when?
"A. The same night.
"Q. What was the date of the meeting at the other place?
24 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
''A. January 25th, I believe.
"Q. You say that that was open to other newspaper reporters?
"A. Yes, sir.
" Q. Was it open to the public ?
"A. I had been told previously that it was closed to the public
and to the press.
" Q. But members of the press were there ?
"A. Yes, sir.
' ' Q. Did you see them ?
"A. Yes, sir.
"Q. Who were they?
"A. The reporter of the West County News, a branch paper of
the Garden Grove News.
' ' Q. Were there any other reporters present that you recognized ?
"A. At later meetings Mr. Elmer AVells of the Santa Ana Register
was present.
"Q. You saw those other newspaper representatives other than
your own present at that meeting ?
"A. Yes, sir.
' ' Q. Where were you all this time ?
"A. I was in the attic, sir.
' ' Q. How did you manage to get into that location ?
"A. Through the use of a key we entered the hall previous to
the meeting.
" Q. How long previous to the meeting ?
"A. At 6.30. The business took up about 8 o'clock.
' ' Q. You were there about an hour and a half before the meeting
started ?
' ' A. Yes, sir.
" Q. Who was with you, if anyone ?
' ' A. Mr. Edwards and another chap named Merton Fugler.
" Q. He lives in Westminster, too ?
' ' A. Yes, sir.
"Q. You went up to the attic for the purpose of ascertaining
what went on at the meeting at which other reporters were present
and at which you would not be admitted ?
"A. That is right.
"Q. Were you there when the people began to come into the
hall?
1 ' A. Yes, sir.
"Q. Was there any physical facility in the ceiling of the build-
ing which enabled you to observe what transpired ?
"A. I found a ventilating grill in the center of the ceiling.
"Q. Did you hear what went on ?
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 25
' ' A. Very well.
"Q. Were you there during the entire time that the meeting
lasted ?
' ' A. Yes, sir.
' ' Q. Did you remain there until the last participant in the meet-
ing had left the building ?
' ' A. Yes, sir.
' ' Q. You then emerged from your place of concealment and left
the premises, I take it ?
' ' A. That is right.
' ' Q. Did you keep any written record or notes of what you saw
and heard ?
' ' A. Yes, we kept a running record of the meeting.
' ' Q. There were three of you there ?
■ ' A. Yes, sir.
" Q. It was a little uncomfortable, wasn 't it ?
"A. Yes.
" Q. How long did the meeting last ?
"A. The meeting began at 8 o'clock and adjourned at 10, 11
and 11.30.
"Q. Mr. Thomas, did you attend subsequent meetings of the
character ?
' ' A. Yes, sir.
" Q. In the same way 1
1 ' A. In the same way.
" Q. With the same people ?
"A. Yes, sir.
" Q. At the same place ?
' ' A. Yes, sir.
" Q. In the same attic ?
1 ' A. Yes, sir.
' ' Q. Did you take notes on those subsequent occasions ?
"A. That is right.
"Q. Are you able to tell us approximately when those subse-
quent meetings took place ?
"A. February 8th, February 22d.
"Q. All of this year?
' ' A. Yes sir ; and I believe March 22d.
" Q. Four meetings in all ?
■ ' A. Yes, sir.
"Q. Were other meetings held thereafter that time, after you
attended the last one ?
' ' A. Yes, sir.
26 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
" Q. Why didn 't you attend those 1
"A. We went in, sir, on two or three occasions, myself or Mr.
or Mrs. Edwards who occasionally writes for our paper. On enter-
ing, the meetings were immediately adjourned.
"Q. You say you attended four of these attic meetings. You
also testified that other meetings were held thereafter in the same
place ?
' ' A. Yes, sir, in the same place.
" Q. But you did not go up to the attic any more ?
' ' A. No, sir.
"Q. Why not?
"A. We had been discovered, I believe around the fourth time,
as being in the attic.
" Q. How did that occur ?
"A. Through the dropping of a camera cable through the venti-
lator grill.
' ' Q. Were you taking pictures ?
' ' A. Yes, sir.
' ' Q. What kind of equipment did you have ?
' ' A. We had infrared, sir.
" Q. Did you develop the negatives ?
' ' A. Yes, sir.
" Q. Were they clear ?
' ' A. Fairly much.
' ' Q. What did you do with the developed negatives ?
' ' A. They haven 't been put to any use, sir.
' ' Q. Do you have them in your possession ?
' ' A. Not with me, sir.
"Q. If the committee should require you to do so, or request you
to do so, would you make them available to the committee ?
"A. Absolutely.
"Q. To go on with this incident, You were discovered. You
emerged from the attic. Then what happened?
' ' A. We were discovered in the attic. Mr. Czerniawski, I believe
followed by Mr. Lyle Richards — Mr. Richards I believe was the
first one up the ladder and broke through.
"Q. Up the ladder ?
"A. Yes, sir. There is a ladder from the second floor to the
attic. Mr. Richards was the first one to come through, breaking
open the drop door, I believe with his head or shoulders. Two men
were standing on the door. I believe he was followed by Mr.
Czerniawski, who himself went through the attic with a large
board in his hand. At that time I was endeavoring to put the
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 27
cameras and film and such under the eaves, thinking they would
be safer there. The police were summoned.
"Q. By whom.
"A. The Orange County Sheriff's office by a member of their
organization.
"Q. By that you mean a member of the organization meeting
there ?
' ' A. Yes, sir, the Improvement Association.
"Q. All right.
"A. They requested the Orange County Sheriffs to come to the
meeting and place Mr. Edwards and I under arrest. Mr. Czerniaw-
ski also requested that the films and notes be confiscated, the films
and notes that we took of a supposedly public meeting.
"Q. "Were other newspaper reporters present at all of these
meetings ?
"A. Yes, I think reporters were present at all meetings, al-
though occasionally they came in late.
" Q. You observed this yourself ?
"A. Yes, sir.
" Q. Were you arrested ?
"A. No, sir.
"Q. By the Sheriff's office?
"A. No, sir.
"Q. "Were the notes and photographic equipment and the nega-
tives confiscated by anyone ?
"A. The sheriff's officers offered to take our films into custody.
They were released to me two days later.
"Q. Was any criminal charge filed against you by anyone to
vour knowledge ?
' ' A. No criminal charge and no attempt was made.
" Q. Was any civil suit filed to your knowledge ?
"A. No, sir.
" Q. Were you ever placed under arrest ?
"A. No, sir.
"Q. Was your equipment all returned to you, and your notes
returned to you ?
' ' A. Yes, sir.
"Q. Did you make any further attempts to conceal yourself in
the attic to observe what happened at their meetings which were
held in the same locale ?
"A. No, sir.
"Q. Were other meetings hold there?
"A. Yes, sir.
28 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
"Q. Were you told on subsequent occasions by anyone con-
nected with the Improvement Association that you would not be
admitted to these meetings, or any of them ?
"A. Yes, sir. It became general knowledge.
"Q. The other members of the press would be admitted, but
you were not welcome ?
"A. That is right.
"Q. Was it put to you that you were not welcome or that you
would not be permitted to attend ?
"A. It was put that I could attend, but would not be welcome.
"Q. Do you have your notes with you, Mr. Thomas, that you
took on any of those occasions ?
" A. I have typewritten copies of the notes.
" Q. Do you have them with you presently ?
"A. Yes, sir.
' ' Q. Will you submit them at this time to the committee ?
"A. Yes, sir.
"Mr. Combs: Let the record show that the witness has handed
to the committee a series of typewritten sheets ten and a half type-
written sheets, which have been identified by the witness as typed
copies of the notes that were taken on the occasions that he at-
tended these meetings at the times and places and in the manner
heretofore described.
' ' Q. Mr. Thomas, do you desire to have these returned to you or
may we keep them ?
"A. The committee may keep them.
"Q. Thank you. Did you continue to investigate the personnel
and the activities of the Improvement Association ?
"A. Yes, sir.
"Q. You did that for the reason you have heretofore described,
that you suspected it was engaged in some sort of a subversive
activity, or had been infiltrated or was led by people with sub-
versive records ?
"A. Yes. I became interested and pressed the inquiry because
of Mr. Czerniawski. He was assistant membership chairman and I
presume now a membership chairman with headquarters at his
store.
" Q. For this association ?
"A. Yes, sir, and he is influential in the association. I had some
knowledge of his past affiliations and I pressed the inquiry to de-
termine the extent of possible subversive character existing in the
membership.
"Q. As a newspaper man you were interested not only in the
Improvement Association, but having discovered the Independent
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 29
Progressive Party affiliation, the People's Daily World subscription
and the International Workers Order affiliation in the process of
your work, it led you to suspect that the organization might have
some kind of ulterior purpose, is that true ?
' ' A. Either the organization or some of its membership who may
have motives that would be beneficial to other organizations that
they might be on too.
"Q. Did you investigate any other members or leaders of the
organization except Mr. Czerniawski ?
"A. To some extent, but not as fully.
" Q. What did you find in that connection ?
"A. I believe a few minor details which cropped up, volunteered
by people. We have not pressed them to the fullest extent though.
What little we do have we have submitted to the committee.
"Q. You will make available this information on request, will
you?
"A. Yes, sir.
"Q. What was the net result of your investigation and work,
Mr. Thomas, to what conclusion did you come, if any ?
"A. I believe that an organization representing itself to be a
civic group attempting to work for the betterment of our schools
and community should not have in it personnel or officers who are
members or have had membership in organizations that are not
akin to our American way of life. I believe that any trustees that
have been sponsored by such an organization, that its membership
should give this very serious consideration inasmuch as this group
has membership in it that is affiliated with possible front organiza-
tions and has sought to gain control of the school board successfully.
"Q. Is there anything else you care to add, Mr. Thomas?
"A. My reasons for bringing this to the committee were first to
present evidence of material given to our office, to bring to light
any possible subversive character that existed in the committee, if
such existed.
"Q. Do you mean the Improvement Association?
"A. That is right. Keference was made earlier today of our
investigation in the Long Beach, Dominguez area. On one occasion
Mr. Czerniawski said that we were claiming to have connections
with the police force, or something.
"Q. Those statements were contained in the letters he submitted.
"A. On all occasions we submitted business cards, and on one
or two occasions we were asked what would happen to the material
if it came our way. We said it would be turned in to a government
agency, but we were newspaper men.
30 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
"Q. You never identified yourselves or made an effort to repre-
sent yourselves, directly or indirectly, as having any official investi-
gative capacity?
' ' A. No, sir. "We were only interested where it would benefit the
community.
"Q. You always submitted your business card on each and
every occasion, which gave your occupation as a newspaper man?
' ' A. Yes, sir.
" Q. Do you have anything further to offer ?
"A. I believe that is all I have.
"Mr. Combs: Thank you."
Mr. Ralph R. Edwards was called to the stand and stated that he
resided at 14242 South Golden West Street in Westminster, had
accompanied Mr. Thomas on the expeditions into the Odd Fellows Hall
attic, and corroborated his testimony concerning the meetings held
there in every respect.
Mr. Czerniawski was then recalled to the stand, briefly described the
encounter in the Westminster drug store and was then questioned fur-
ther concerning the School Improvement Association as follows:
"Question by Mr. Combs: Senator Burns inquired of another
witness whether or not the Improvement Association was still func-
tioning and holding meetings. Is it, to your knowledge?
"A. So far I think I did attend meetings.
"Q. I don't mean you, but does the organization still exist?
"A. As far as I know it does.
" Q. Are you still connected with it ?
"A. Well, I haven't paid any dues for quite some time. I don't
know whether I am or not.
"Q. Did you hold an office in the organization?
"A. I was elected at one of the meetings for membership chair-
man, but I told them I could not accept. I said I could not accept
that position because I was busy in my store and could not devote
the time. I said I would help in any way I could, but I would not
take the office or job.
"Q. Were the meetings in the Odd Fellows Hall open or
closed to the press?
' ' A. They were open to the public and the press.
' ' Q. They were open to the public and the press ?
' ' A. That is right, sir, as far as I know.
"Q. Was it made clear to Mr. Thomas and Mr. Edwards that
they were not welcome at the meeting?
"A. It was never mentioned to Mr. Thomas or Mr. Edwards
as far as I know.
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 31
"Q. Could it have been mentioned to them without your
knowledge ?
"A. It probably could because we are not taking a very active
part in the organization because I have my business to attend to.
The only active part I took in the organization was to pay dues as
a dues paying member.
"Q. The paper that was published by Mr. Thomas was not
exactly friendly toward the improvement society, was it?
"A. No, it was not, sir. It was very biased.
"Q. So it would not be beyond the realm of logic or reason to
say that the people representing that paper would be perhaps a
little less welcome at your affairs than papers that were friendly
toward your association?
"A. That is true enough. However, they were not excluded.
They were welcome if they wanted to come, but they knew that
we weren't very friendly toward them on this biased attitude.
"Q. They were not friendly toward you and you were not
friendly toward them?
"A. That is right.
' ' Question by Chairman Burns : Mr. Czerniawski, in these
notes I see a statement by member Fry in which he says, 'I agree
and think that we should plan a constructive program keeping in
mind our one aim, that of three men from our group elected to
the board.'
"Was that the main reason why this organization was formed,
this Improvement Association, to secure three members on the
school board?
"A. As far as I know, our aim in organizing was to clean up
the school district in that area. It wasn't run right.
"Q. According to your plan you intended to elect a majority of
the members of the board ?
"A. That is right.
" Q. Of the school board, is that right f
"A. That is right.
"Q. Your meeting was held January 25th. The election was
held subsequently. What happened at the election. Did you secure
three places on the board ?
"A. Yes, by a great majority, a landslide you might say.
"Q. In other words, the main aim and objective of the organiza-
tion was accomplished ?
"A. That is right. We based our ideals on the truth. That is
why the organization was successful in the election, because we
based our aims on the truth only.
32 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
"Q. Did you promulgate your propaganda and information as
you saw it ?
"A. Yes.
"Q. What changes were made in the school administration since
the election? Has any radical change been made? Have you
changed principals or superintendents? What has happened?
"A. I think the school board could best answer that.
" Q. Is there a member of the school board here ?
"A. Yes, sir.
' ' Q. Would he be willing to tell us something about it ?
"A. I guess he would. We have Mr. LeRoy King and Mr.
Schulzstad.
' ' Chairman Burns : That is all, Mr. Czerniawski. ' '
Mr. LeRoy Carlin King was questioned and testified that he resided
at 7742 Westminster Avenue in the City of Westminster, and testified
as follows :
"Question by Chairman Burns: You are a member of the
school board of the Westminster School District?
"A. That is right, sir.
"Q. You were elected at a special election, were you not?
"A. No. It was a regular election on the 21st of May.
"Q. You participated in the formation and activities of the
Tri-City Improvement Association, did you not ?
"A. I cannot say that I participated too much in the formation,
but I did become a member of the organization, and I was spon-
sored by that organization.
' ' Q. In your judgment and in your opinion do you believe from
what you know of the course of the organization and its works,
that it was in any way subversive ?
"A. I cannot by any stretch of the imagination picture any
such thing.
"Q. You know of no Communist influence in its operation or
in the conduct of its meetings ?
"A. Not in any manner.
"Q. Will you briefly tell us what changes the school board has
made since the new regime took over.
"A. As for changes I cannot think of any material ones. As a
new member I was elected to the chairmanship of the board. One of
my member candidates, Mrs. Genevieve Nashburn, was elected as
clerk of the present board, the three of us being elected to com-
plete it as a five-man board, according to past legislation, raising
it from a three-man board to a five-man board.
" Q. It is a five-man board now ?
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 33
''A. That is right.
1 ' Q. Do you still have the same district superintendent ?
"A. We still have the same district superintendent. We have
the same assistant to the superintendent. We have the same prin-
cipals in so far as I know. To the best of my knowledge we have
about the same teaching staff with the possible exception of the
usual, customary turnover. We have advocated no drastic changes
or policies whatever as of the present time.
"Q. Has the district at the present time filed a request for
state funds for any purposes ?
"A. I cannot exactly tell you how that works. I know the pro-
gram of the previous board in the election was an $80,000 bond
issue. There was a state loan of some $625,000,000, I believe, which
was on the ballot at the last election. Both issues were defeated.
"Q. At the present time probably there is no application for
state funds for building purposes ?
' ' A. Not to the best of my knowledge, no, sir.
' ' Chairman Burns : Do you have any questions, Mr. Combs ?
' ' Mr. Combs : No, I have no questions.
"Chairman Burns: Thank you, Mr. King, unless you want to
add something.
' ' The Witness : May I address a question to you, sir ?
' ' Chairman Burns : Certainly.
"The Witness: On behalf of the school board, the present
school board and the school district, it came to my attention some
few days ago that an official or officials of the school district had
requested this investigation also, and as chairman of the board am
I entitled to know if some of my officials have questions?
"Chairman Burns: You want to know the individuals who re-
quested that the committee investigate this matter?
"The Witness: Only insofar as it concerns the administration.
1 ' Chairman Burns ; For your information, Mr. King, the request
came before you were a member of the board.
' ' The Witness : I see.
"Chairman Burns: I don't believe there would be any hesi-
tancy on the part of the people who asked for the investigation to
have their names disclosed, but I believe at this time for the bene-
fit of all concerned I would withhold that information. I would
advise you of this. There was no question about you or the other
new members of the board from a personal standpoint, to the best
of my recollection.
"Mr. Combs : There was none.
"Chairman Burns: It was a long time before the election, as
Mr. Combs has said. The question why we delayed doing anything
34 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
about it at all was not to interfere with a local election of any kind.
That has been the policy of this committee, not only as far as
school boards are concerned, but in all elections. We don't want
to step into a local political situation.
' ' The Witness : Thank you, sir.
"Chairman Burns: You are entirely welcome, and thank you.
Does anyone else desire to be heard in this matter relating to
Westminster ?
"Mr. Eeid: I do, sir.
The committee, pursuant to his request, agreed to hear the testimony
of W. L. Reid, who took the stand and stated that he resided at 7851
10th Street in Westminister, was a sales representative, had lived in
Westminster for three years and prior to that time resided in Garden
Grove for approximately the same period of time. Mr. Reid further
stated that he was one of the founders of the School Improvement As-
sociation and that Mr. Czerniawski became a member of it some time
later.
He said, in response to an inquiry concerning the founders of the
association, that it was founded by Leonard Fry and himself. He then
testified as follows:
' ' Q. Did you hold any official position in the organization ?
' ' A. No, I have not, other than just errand boy.
"Q. Did Mr. Fry?
"A. Yes. Mr. Fry was chairman of our School Improvement
Association.
" Q. Actually when was it formed ?
"A. I am not too good on dates.
' ' Q. Approximately as near as you can fix it ?
"A. I could attach it to other happenings there and arrive at
a fair date. I would say roughly six or eight months ago.
" Q. At whose residence was the organization meeting held ?
"A. The first meeting was held at Mr. Fry's residence.
' ' Q. That was on what date ?
"A. The organizational date.
"Q. Was that the date Mr. Thomas and Mr. Edwards came and
inquired about attending the meeting?
"A. Mr. Thomas and Mr. Edwards came into the meeting right
at the end of the meeting. We were serving refreshments.
" Q. This was the organizational meeting ?
"A. Yes, sir.
' ' Q. Did they come in and look at the minutes ?
"A. No. They were served coffee and cake. The meeting was
over.
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 35
" Q. This was held in Mr. Fry's home ?
"A. Yes.
"Q. Had the meeting theretofore been scheduled at some other
place?
"A. Not to my knowledge.
" Q. Could it have been without your knowledge ?
"A. I doubt it very much because Mr. Fry and I originated
the meeting.
"Q. Did Mr. Thomas on that occasion inquire about the nature
and purpose of the organization ?
"A. Yes.
" Q. Did he discuss these matters with you ?
"A. No — with Mr. Fry in my hearing.
' ' Q. You were present and you heard the conversation ?
"A. Yes, sir.
"Q. Did he get information as to the nature and purpose of
the movement ?
"A. Yes, sir.
"Q. Was he subsequently informed by you or anybody else
that he would not be welcome at your meetings?
"A. Yes, sir. He was told by Mr. Fry that he would not be wel-
come. The reason was because he made his stories up out of whole
cloth.
"Q. He was antagonistic toward the organization, according to
your view ?
1 ' A. That is right, definitely.
"Q. He published articles in the paper that were antagonistic
toward the organization, or critical of it ?
"A. Yes. It was not an organization at that time. However, in
view of the general school controversy we thought his stand was
antagonistic to our views.
' ' Q. Did you hold any closed meetings that were not open to the
public ?
"A. No, sir. "We invited the press at all times. Any of the meet-
ings I attended were also attended by newspaper reporters, either
or both of the Garden Grove News or the Santa Ana Register.
"Q. You felt it was made clear to Mr. Thomas he was not wel-
come?
"A. He was not excluded.
"Q. What do you mean by excluded?
"A. He was merely told in view of the fact his articles were
made up generally through imagination that he would not need to
attend.
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
"Q. Did somebody meet him at the door and tell him that he
could not come in or that he would not be welcome if he did
come in ?
"A. No, sir. He was brought in and served coffee and cake.
"Q. That is one occasion, but what about subsequent occasions?
"A. I think he attended meetings of the general membership
after that. In fact we were not aware of his presence.
"Q. I understand, but at any meeting you ever held was he told
in your presence or in your hearing that he would not be welcome ?
"A. Except for the first organizational meeting, I never saw him
at one of our meetings, so I could not say he was ever told.
"Q. But at the organizational meeting he was told he would not
be welcome ?
"A. He was told in view of his stand he would not be welcome,
but he was not excluded.
' ' Q. Mr. Fry told him that ?
"A. That is correct.
" Q. In your presence and in your hearing ?
"A. That is right.
' ' Q. Was anyone else present on that occasion ?
"A. I can't recall. The membership was there.
' ' Q. Did you attend the meetings held in the Odd Fellows Hall ?
"A. One or two of them. I don't remember the dates particu-
larly, I did not attend all of them. My work keeps me out a great
deal during the night.
" Q. "Were you present at any of the attic meetings ?
" A. Apparently so. I didn't know it on that day — I wasn't there
at the one at which he was discovered.
' ' Q. Does the organization still exist and function ?
"A. More or less. It exists in this respect: We still have some
money to raise to offset our campaign expenses.
"Q. Were they considerable.
"A. No. I would say —
"Q. It is not material. Did you wish to add anything else, Mr.
Reid?
"A. Just that I would like to definitely insist that the School
Improvement Association is not in any sense of the word a Com-
munist front organization, has no affiliation with the organization,
and that our membership lists were turned over to Bill Callan,
Secretary of the Orange County Farmers, which is the only place
where we could have any sort of a check. We have gone to great
lengths to see that the organization is free of any taint.
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IX CALIFORNIA 37
Q. Who turned the list over to them ?
A. We did.
Q. What group is that again?
: A. I believe it is the Associated Farmers of Orange County.
They would have a list of your members ?
;A. Yes. My wife and I spent several afternoons with him.
1 Q. Where is his office ?
;A. On North Los Angeles Street, approximately the 600 block,
Anaheim.
1 Q. Anything else, Mr. Reid ?
; A. That is all, sir. ' '
Mr. Combs : "I have no further questions."
Chairman Burns: "For the benefit of those who came from
Westminster, all of you, we appreciate your presence here today.
As far as the official position of the committee is concerned, after
going through the transcript we will make that known to those
interested. ' '
CONCLUSIONS
Within 30 days after the conclusion of the public hearing, the com-
mittee was receiving calls by reporters from newspapers in Orange
County rather insistently demanding some expression of the committee
concerning its official position regarding the hearing. These requests
continued to such an extent that Senator Burns, in September, 1954,
gave his own personal opinion to the effect that no evidence was pro-
duced at the hearing that would establish Communist Party member-
ship on the part of Mr. Czerniawski nor prove that he was an active
member in a subversive organization. Senator Burns made it clear that
the opinion expressed was his own and not necessarily shared by other
members of the committee.
Immediately after this expression, an article appeared in the Santa
Ana Register dated September 16, 1954, which we deem it important to
quote below for the purpose of indicating the attitude of this partic-
ular paper, or at least the reporter who wrote the article, toward the
entire Westminster problem.
"Red Probe Suspects Given 'Clean Bill'
"Red-hunting Sen. Hugh M. Burns, chairman of the State Sen-
ate Committee on Un-American Activities, indicated yesterday
that the Westminster School Improvement Association and West-
minster hardware dealer, Albin Czerniawski will be cleared of
subversive charges.
"However, Burns emphasized that the opinion is his own and
not necessarily that of the two other members of the State's Red-
probing Committee, Sen. Nathan Coombs of Napa County and
Richard E. Combs, Chief Counsel.
"Burns added that he is basing his 'off-the-cuff' opinion on evi-
dence heard at an 'exploratory hearing' held at Los Angeles last
July to probe alleged infiltration into Westminster School District
politics.
" 'I haven't had a chance to read the hearing transcript. But
in my opinion, by the evidence presented, that group (The West-
minster School Improvement Assn.) hasn't a thing to worry
about being subversive.
' ' ' True, one of the fellows belonged to a Communist front or-
ganization, but that in itself doesn't make him a member of the
Communist Party or active in any subversive group,' Burns de-
dared.
(38)
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 39
"The Senator from Fresno explained that his work on the com-
mittee plus his senatorial duties along with having to earn a living,
' like anyone else, ' is the reason for the delay of an opinion on the
Westminster probe.
"However, he said, in view of the expressed interest in the West-
minster situation he will do all he can to expedite an official opinion
and get out a more detailed report soon as he can.
"Burns said that as far as he is concerned Westminster School
Improvement Assn. had a right to organize in an effort to steer
Westminster School District affairs if they were unhappy with the
way things were going. 'And,' he added, 'there is no evidence to
support in any way their being subversive.'
' ' Burns pointed out that the questions raised at the hearing was
the possibility of Czerniawski being either an official or functionary
in the group and also a member of the Communist Party.
' ' ' About the only thing the hearing proved, ' he declared, ' was
that this man (Czerniawski) holds an insurance policy in the
International Workers Order. But this is not evidence to support
subversive charges.'
"Red infiltration into the school district's politics was alleged
by Lloyd Thomas, 31, 'cloak and dagger' editor of the Westmin-
ster Weekly Herald. Thomas presented evidence which he charged
implicates Czerniawski with the Communist Party. He also im-
plied that the 52-year-old hardware dealer was the 'Red' link of
the Westminster School Improvement Assn.
"Under oath Czerniawski admitted membership in the I. W. 0.,
a group which has been cited as Communist-front. But he denied
knowledge of its Communist affiliations and being a member of the
Communist Party.
"Czerniawski also admitted he had subscribed to the People's
Daily World and In Fact, both later identified as publications sympa-
thetic to the Communist cause. But, he testified, he subscribed to
each for six months, 'to please customers.'
"The hardware dealer testified he became the victim of a whis-
pering campaign four years ago and it climaxed last May 10th
when he slapped Thomas in the face for calling him a Communist.
"He told the Senate committee that he had joined the I. W. 0.
to take advantage of its insurance benefits at a time of economic
difficulty. The group, he said, collected a hundred dollars to buy
a horse for an impoverished Czech farmer, while he was a member.
"The I. W. 0. was branded subversive two years ago and dis-
banded. Czerniawski testified his insurance is still in force, but it
is now paid to the New York State Insurance Commissioner who
took over the insurance end of the disbanded group.
40 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
" Thomas told the three-man state probing committee that he
first became suspicious of subversion in Westminster School Dis-
trict policies when he learned that Czerniawski was a member of
the School Improvement Association.
' ' The association backed three candidates which Thomas opposed
editorially in the May election. The candidates, LeRoy King, Mar-
shall D. Schulzstad and Mrs. Genevieve Mashburn, were elected to
office in the biggest turnout of voters in Westminster history.
" Thomas also described how he came by the labels of 'cloak and
dagger editor' and 'peek-a-boo editor.' His description, accom-
panied by hearty but somewhat stifled laughs from the senators
and guffaws from the audience, involved how he was caught late
in March eavesdropping on a meeting of the members of the Im-
provement Association.
"Thomas was caught in the attic of the I. 0. 0. F. hall in West-
minster. With him were Ralph Edwards, 30, Westminster bean
rancher, and a juvenile. They were caught with infrared photo
equipment for taking photos undetected at night, binoculars and
exhaustive notes.
"At the conclusion of his testimony the publisher admitted that
thus far his investigation has produced no evidence of possible
subversion other than Czerniawski 's record, but that his probe
would continue."
An examination of the transcript of this hearing does not indicate
any description by Mr. Thomas of how he became known as a "cloak
and dagger editor ' ' or the ' ' peek-a-boo editor. ' ' Neither were the mem-
bers of the committee so discourteous as to laugh at his testimony con-
cerning his experience in the attic when he endeavored to ascertain
what was taking place at the meetings of the School Improvement Asso-
ciation. The transcript does not contain anything showing that Thomas
presented any evidence which he charged would implicate Mr. Czer-
niawski with the Communist Party, nor did Senator Burns or anyone
else connected with the committee give the individuals connected with
the hearing a "clean bill." All of these things set forth in the article
above, can be attributed neither to Senator Burns nor to anything that
transpired at the hearing.
Mr. Thomas made it amply clear during his testimony, and the com-
mittee also wishes to emphasize that he conducted his investigation
solely on his own initiative and at no time worked either for the com-
mittee or under its direction. He merely ascertained that he was not
welcome at the organization of the School Improvement Association
nor at any of its subsequent meetings, decided that something must be
wrong, conducted an investigation entirely on his own, discovered
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 41
Czerniawski 's involvement with the Independent Progressive Party, the
International Workers Order, and the Daily People's World and con-
cluded that the matter should be brought to the attention of the com-
mittee. Ordinarily this matter would not have been made the subject
of a separate hearing without a detailed investigation initiated by the
committee itself. Because of the relatively small size of the City of "West-
minster and the intense feeling created by the entire matter, and in
consideration of the letters and telephonic requests received by the com-
mittee from parties representing both sides and asking for a public
hearing, the committee decided that the matter should be explored when
it was having a hearing on other subjects in Los Angeles.
It is quite obvious that no evidence was produced which would either
establish the membership of Mr. Czerniawski in the Communist Party
or his active participation as a member of a Communist-controlled or-
ganization. The fact remains, however, that he did subscribe to the
Communist newspaper and to a pro-Communist magazine, that he affil-
iated with a "political" party which was also under the domination of
the Communist Party in California, and that he continued his member-
ship in one of the most potent Communist front organizations in the
United States for a period of 18 years.
The International Workers Order has been operating in the United
States since 1930. It is an insurance, fraternal and propaganda agency
and during the first four years of Mr. Czerniawski 's affiliation with it,
was headed by Max Bedacht, ex-general secretary of the Communist
Party of the United States, a former member of its National Executive
Committee, a frequent visitor to the Soviet Union and an affiliate with
innumerable Communist front organizations. As we pointed out in the
1951 report of this committee, Mr. Bedacht, himself, described the or-
ganization as follows :
"Our main concern is that our proletarian fraternal organiza-
tion, the International Workers Order, can make the workers class-
conscious * * * this problem is of the greatest importance. It is one
of the major problems of Communist leadership in all nonparty
mass organizations.
' ' The development of its members into militant trade unionists or
Communists thus becomes a natural result of the correct function-
ing of the International Workers Order. * * * The Communists,
rather, develop and lead struggles for immediate achievements
because they are concerned with creating a revolution. * * * The
Communists organize mass economic strikes by the workers them-
selves, mass picketing by the workers themselves, mass demonstra-
tions by the workers themselves, mass defense by political strikes
by the workers themselves. * * * The I. W. 0. is an organization
42 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
that allows Communist leadership to drive its roots into the un-
charted depths of the American working masses. * * * The build-
ing of the I. W. 0. is therefore, one of the most important tasks of
the Communist Party. ' '
The I. W. 0. has been used not only for the purpose of raising huge
amounts of money for Communist purposes in this Country and for
propagandizing, but it has also been used as a very important medium
for the bringing together of racial minority groups and recruiting them
into the Communist Party itself. It is extremely difficult to see, in view
of the known fact that the organization was controlled by the Commu-
nist Party from top to bottom, was swarming with party members, that
its meetings were held in an atmosphere of Marxism and Communist
recruiting techniques, and that its very purpose was to introctrinate its
members with Communism, how any person could be a member of it for
a period of years without having some sort of an idea of its real nature.
Several years ago this committee received evidence of how the Inter-
national Workers Order was being utilized in connection with a Com-
munist technique for protecting its agents. Every International Workers
Order Lodge in the United States had its own staff of physicians, and
members of the organization were referred to these doctors not only
for medical service but frequently for advice concerning political mat-
ters. These International Workers Order physicians cared for the health
of the top-level party functionaries throughout the United States, and
in the event one of them toppled over and died suddenly from a heart
attack the International Workers Order would provide the ambulance,
the physician, the mortuary, the death certificate, and the report of a
cremation. In many instances governmental agencies were extremely
skeptical and pondered the question of whether or not the known Com-
munist agent was really deceased, or whether his death and cremation
were reported to spring him loose for important underground activities.
Several years ago the committee also had a conference with the Insur-
ance Commissioner of the State of California, produced evidence of the
subversive nature of the International Workers Order, and the organi-
zation was not thereafter permitted to carry on an insurance business
in this State. Simultaneously there was a case pending in the courts of
New York, brought by the Insurance Commissioner of that State for
the purpose of proving his allegations that the I. W. 0. was in fact
subversive and Communist-dominated. The court found in favor of the
commissioner, and since the head office of the I. W. 0. was in the State
of New York, all of the members who remained in the organization after
its subversive character had been printed many times in official publica-
tions, were told to send their contributions to the New York Corporation
Commissioner.
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 43
Iii connection with the testimony of Mr. Czerniawski to the effect that
he regards the organization simply as an insurance concern, it may be
well to quote the remarks of Mr. Louis P. Budenz, a former member
of the Communist National Committee of the United States and former
editor of its New York Publication, The Daily Worker. In the March,
1951, issue of the American Legion Magazine Mr. Budenz wrote :
"An I. W. 0. lodge, indeed, cannot be distinguished in its
political tone from a Communist Party branch. They look alike,
talk alike and act alike. It was my function along with other Red
leaders to visit I. ~W. 0. lodges and give 'educational' talks there.
These were nothing other than the straight-out Red incitations
against the United States, always wrapped up in the current
language laid down by Moscow. Many a night I was out talking to
the I. "W. 0. members in exactly the same accents and the same
intent as do the 'card-carrying' Red members.
"I went into these lodge meetings as the official representative
of the National Committee of the Communist Party, was intro-
duced as one having Red authority, and laid down the law just as
I did in party branches. When J. Edgar Hoover of the F. B. I.
recently told the Senate Committee on Appropriations of the five
hundred thousand 'Red sympathizers' aiding the subversive acts
of the Soviet fifth column, he undoubtedly had these I. W. 0. first
in mind.
"The indictment which could be drawn up against the I. W. 0.
as one of Stalin's leading agencies for subversion would be ex-
tensive and detailed. The continuance of 'language' groups and
divisions in an 'insurance' set-up becomes increasingly artificial
in the America of today. But in the I. W. 0. it enabled a constant
interweaving relationship with foreign agents from abroad, such
as alleged seamen of Greek, Polish, Romanian and other nationali-
ties. It is largely in order to facilitate the work of spying upon
our defenses that fifteen nationally groups, societies and general
lodges have been maintained by I. W. 0. on a national level.
"Of course, there has been another reason for this preoccupation
with 'language' groups, both in the I. W. 0. and in the Communist
Party itself. If the Reds could play upon the isolated feelings of
many immigrants they would be able to use these people for alien
purposes, just as they seek to turn the Negro against America and
to make the Mexican-American feel that he is a member of a
'conquered' people. That is what caused the I. W. 0. to advertise
rather extensively in the Red-created Slav papers in this country.
It was out of such financing, plus the recruiting from the L W. (>..
44 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
that the Soviet fifth column was able to create so rapidly the
American-Slav Congress when Moscow ordered such action.
"From my experience as a leading Communist, I can charge
that every foreign language division within this 'fraternal' or-
ganization had an espionage apparatus of some sort operating
within it. Perhaps the leader of all was the Polonia Society, the
Polish section of the I. W. 0., led by Boleslaw Gebert. This amaz-
ing Stalinist agent, who served as district leader of the Communist
Party in the mid-west in the early thirties, and then became the
underground director of Red infiltration into the steel and auto-
mobile unions, remained an alien in this country for fully 20 years.
All efforts to deport him failed, and he stands out as one of the
scores of Moscow espionage representatives who exercised extensive
power in this country while disdaining American citizenship. To
my personal knowledge Gebert not only obtained vital secrets
pertaining to our military aircraft, but ran an extensive espionage
ring."
The committee pointed out in 1951 that the I. W. 0. then had 81
lodges in California, was licensed to conduct an insurance business in
this State, and as of 1950 had 8,495 insurance certificates in force,
$5,438,710 in insurance policies in force, and that it received $123,-
762.80 from its members in California alone. As we have stated, the
committee produced evidence before the Insurance Commissioner of this
state which led him to take action which prevents the I. W. 0. from
pursuing its activities within the borders of California.
The Daily People's World is the propaganda organ for the Communist
Party on the Pacific Coast. Its principal office is located in San Fran-
cisco, and it maintains an extremely active branch office in Los Angeles.
Until late in 1937 this publication was known as the Western Worker,
and its masthead proclaimed that it was the official organ for the Com-
munist Party, a section of the Communist International. When it
changed its name to the Daily People's World the control, the editorial
policy, the propaganda content, the assiduous following of the Inter-
national Communist Party line remained identical. Its former editor in
chief, Harrison George, has declared that the editorial policy of the
publication was actually determined by the organizer for the Com-
munist Party of California — Mr. William Schneiderman, who stands
convicted for violation of the Smith Act. The paper, being designed
for the sole purpose of carrying the party line and spreading Marxian
propaganda, would obviously be worthless to the Communist apparatus
unless its objectives were expressed in the columns of the paper with
such clarity, such vehemence, and in such context that the effect would
not be lost upon even the most casual reader.
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 45
No one could possibly scan even the headlines of this publication with-
out instantly becoming aware of its character. Even the advertisements
are couched in the unmistakable language of the Marxian left. Naturally,
the International Workers Order, as well as all of the other numerous
front organizations that are so important to the Communist organiza-
tion are mentioned almost daily. The publication maintains a constant
and vicious attack against the United States Department of Justice,
the Federal Bureau of Investigation, the Immigration and Naturaliza-
tion Service, all police agencies, all legislative committees investigating
Communism, and sneering criticism of the foreign policy of the United
States. At the same time the publication expresses profound sympathy
for every Communist Party member, whether an espionage agent, a
propagandist, a chronic joiner of front organizations, a fellow-traveler,
or a rank and file member of the party, in case such an individual be-
comes the target for prosecution because of a violation of some estab-
lished law. The Soviet Union and the satellite countries are constantly
eulogized, and Red China occupies a place in the esteem of this publica-
tion only second to the Soviet Union. It is also a well established fact
that all members of Communist front organizations, as well as all party
members, are constantly urged to subscribe for the Daily People's World
and to read it assiduously.
Until a few years ago the newspaper was openly delivered through
the United States mail. In recent years, however, it is usually delivered
in bundles by courier, and then picked up by its subscribers at a cen-
tral location. This practice, of course, is in harmony with the party's
decision to go underground and to take every means to protect the iden-
tity of its members with the exception of those Communists who are
deliberately left on the surface and directed to handle the newspaper
itself, the front organizations and the propaganda machinery. These
individuals are considered expendable, and regard themselves as Com-
munist martyrs. Thus the Daily People's World is not simply a liberal or
progressive newspaper. Its contents are not couched in such language
as would fool a grammer school student of ordinary common intelli-
gence. The paper takes brazen pride in openly criticizing our govern-
ment, extolling the Soviet Union and its satellite nations, and is so
arrogantly pro-Communist in its content that the most cursory reading
would reveal it for what it actually is : the propaganda medium for the
Communist Party of the Pacific Coast.
The publication In Fad was known for years for its decidedly pro-
Communist character. This committee has mentioned it in reports issued
in 1943, 1948 and 1949. Its editor, George Seldes, wrote such insulting
letters about and directly to J. Edgar Hoover that the latter was moved
to reply in an exchange of personal correspondence that effetcively put
46 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
Mr. Seldes in his place. The magazine, defunct for several years, con-
sistently carried the Communist Party line, gave every sort of aid and
comfort to the Communist cause, and while not quite so obviously a
propaganda medium as the Daily People's World, could not possibly be
read with any degree of thoroughness without disclosing its sympathy
toward Communism in this country.
The Independent Progressive Party in California was quickly cap-
tured by the Communists, and by the time the "Wallace for President
campaign had swung into high gear was being operated lock stock
and barrel by the Communist Party of California. Time after time
the committee in questioning witnesses throuhgout the State discovered
that the leaders of the Communist Parties in various localities were
identical with the leaders of the Independent Progressive Party in the
same area. It is true, of course, that in the Independent Progressive
Party there were many sincere liberals who, because of dissatisfaction
with the two major political organizations registered as Independent
Progressives and continued their affiliation until the true control of the
I. P. P. became obvious. These people invariably resigned, many of
them having given the benefit of their experience to various official
agencies interested in the exposure of subversive activities. As has
already been pointed out, the head of the I. P. P. in California since
its inception was Hugh Bryson, president of the Marine Cooks and
Stewards Union, and now under indictment for having falsely sworn
that he was not a member of the Communist Party.
The Communist control of the Independent Progressive Party soon
became so pronounced and so arrogant that it drove the sincere liberals
from its ranks, leaving only a handful of the most fanatic. This exodus
from the organization grew to such an extent that at the last state-wide
political election in which Independent Progressive Party candidates
were eligible to participate, the voting strength of the organization fell
so far below the state requirement that it could not qualify as a politi-
cal party in California.
Mr. Czerniawski stated to the committee positively and clearly that
he had never joined the Communist Party. Whether the International
Workers Order meetings that he attended created a predilection for
publications and politics of a pro-Communist flavor we cannot tell. It
is quite plain, however, that he did subscribe to the Communist news-
paper; that he did subscribe to the pro-Communist publication In Fact,
and that he did affiliate with the Communist-controlled Independent
Progressive Party.
We then have a situation wherein, because of local interest in school
affairs, attention became focused upon the personnel of the newly-
created School Improvement Association in Westminster. Mr. Thomas,
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 47
obviously irked because he was not well received by the association and
because he was told flatly that he would not be welcome at its meetings,
stubbornly dug away at Czerniawski 's record and found that he had,
indeed, subscribed to Communist publications and joined two Commu-
nist-controlled organizations.
The committee prefers not to comment on the wisdom of Mr. Thomas'
attic activities — any more than upon Mr. Czerniawski 's motives in mak-
ing his choice of reading material and affiliating with the International
Workers Order and the Independent Progressive Party. The episode
in the "Westminster pharmacy seems to epitomize the personal charac-
teristics of the two principals: Mr. Thomas' accusations against Mr.
Czerniawski, and the latter 's violent reaction thereto.
The committee can do no more than to recite the facts. "We feel that
the issues have been well clarified and, as Senator Burns stated in Sep-
tember, 1954, the School Improvement Association had a perfect right
to organize and conduct any critical activity concerning the educational
system in Westminster, or any school political activity it desired. There
is no evidence that the organization engaged in any subversive activity
whatever. As a public minded citizen and a newspaper editor, it was
not unnatural for Mr. Thomas to interest himself both in the local
educational problems, the School Improvement Association, and its
personnel. Further, it is not unnatural for such a person to become
concerned over possible subversive influences in the educational system
of the community. Whether Mr. Thomas exercised the proper wisdom
in so zealously pursuing his investigation, or whether he should have
turned the matter over to some official agency, is a matter for the deter-
mination of anyone who reads the facts in the case. The same reason-
ing may be applied to Mr. Czerniawski 's wisdom in making the affilia-
tions and subscribing to the publications concerned which he testified.
There was no proof produced by anyone to show that Mr. Czerniawski
was a member of the Communist Party, and he stated under oath that
he had never made such an affiliation.
As Senator Burns stated in his comment to the Santa Ana Register last
September, the hearing was purely exploratory. In the event that
further substantial evidence is developed showing any subversive activ-
ity on the part of any member of the School Improvement Association
or in connection with the educational system of Westminster, the com-
mittee will stand ready to make such investigation or hold such hear-
ing as the facts may warrant.
THE CASE OF DORIS BRIN WALKER
On January 18, 1955, the Supreme Court of the State of California
rendered a decision which is so far reaching in its effect and which so
clarifies the law in this State regarding the broad aspects of Communist
activities in general and the right and duty of an employer to discharge
a Communist employee in particular, that the committee feels war-
ranted in dealing with this decision at some length. In addition, some
of the organizations and individuals mentioned in the body of the
decision have long been familiar to the committee, and we will endeavor
to indicate something of the nature of the intricate, carefully planned,
interlocking aspects of the Communist strategy in this State to insinu-
ate of its members in some of our most sensitive and strategic positions.
The Cutter Laboratories, Inc., is situated in Berkeley and engaged in
producing vaccines, serums, antitoxins, blood plasma and antibiotics
for both civilian and military use and for both domestic and foreign
consumption. During World War II the laboratories were supplying
huge quantities of its products to our armed forces, and, since it was
peculiarly vulnerable to sabotage, was operated under the strictest
security measures imposed by federal authorities.
In February, 1944, the Bio-Lab Union Local 225, United Office and
Professional Workers of America, CIO, was recognized by the labora-
tories pursuant to a National Labor Relations Board election.
The history of this union is positively fascinating. It was originally
known as the Union of Technical Men. Its founder, Marcel Scherer,
was a New York Communist of such ability as an industrial chemist
and of such unusual devotion to the Communist Party that he was
sent to Moscow for special training at the Lenin Institute for sabotage
and espionage specialists. He lost no time in launching this techni-
cians union upon returning to the United States. It was Communist
inspired, created and operated — having been conceived, as has been
seen, in Moscow. The organization grew rapidly and soon changed its
name to the International Federation of Architects, Engineers, Chem-
ists and Technicians. Its membership comprised the various technical
categories denoted by its title, together with nuclear physicists, drafts-
men, aeronautical engineers and other types of scientific personnel. In
1939 it instituted Chapter 25 at Berkeley, California.
In its 1945 report, our committee described this organization in con-
siderable detail: how it infiltrated its nuclear physicist members
throughout our secret A-bomb project at the University of California ;
how a committee informant attended meetings of this Berkeley Chap-
(48)
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 49
ter 25, FAECT and heard its scientific members formulate plans to
evade FBI detection and heard some of them express a longing for a
Soviet United States of America; how this Moscow-created agency
sifted its Communist members throughout our laboratories, shipyards,
aircraft factories and secret defense projects.
The attorney for the Berkeley Chapter 25, FAECT was Bertram
Edises — also attorney for Mrs. Doris Brin Walker, the principal figure
in this case.
Shortly after it was publicly exposed by this committee, Chapter 25,
FAECT changed its number to 225, and then unobtrusively merged
with the United Office and Professional Workers of America. Thus this
Local 225, with which the Cutter Laboratories became involved in 1946,
was nothing more nor less than the old Moscow-conceived Local 25,
FAECT with a new number, a new name, with the same complexion
and even the same attorney. It may appropriately be noted in passing
that Bertram Edises was unceremoniously pegged for a Communist
Party member by no less an authority than the Daily People's World.
These facts concerning the FAECT and its metamorphosis into Bio-
Lab Union 225 of the United Office and Professional Workers of Amer-
ica are not mentioned in the Supreme Court decision, although the court
did state that the UOPWA was ousted from the CIO in 1950 because
of its alleged Communist-dominated character.
This case arose because Cutter Laboratories discharged Doris Brin
Walker, charging that she was believed to be a Communist Party mem-
ber, and also because she deliberately lied on her application for a job
with the laboratories.
Mrs. Walker attended the University of California at Berkeley where
she made an outstanding scholastic record. During her undergraduate
years she was elected to Phi Beta Kappa, top scholarship society, and
in law school her excellence earned her an editorial post on the Califor-
nia Law Review. Having graduated, passed the Bar examination and
been admitted to practice, Mrs. Walker was appointed enforcement
attorney with the San Francisco Office of Price Administration in 1942,
a position she held until 1944. During that period her boss was former
Congressman Robert L. Condon, who became chief enforcement attor-
ney for the OPA in Northern California in 1942. He was also asso-
ciated with Bertram Edises' law office in 1947. Edises, the attorney
for Mrs. Walker and her union, had served in Washington as enforce-
ment officer for the National Labor Relations Board — having resigned
from that position in July, 1941. Both Edises and his partner, Treu-
haft, had been associated in San Francisco with the firm of Gladstein,
Grossman, Margolis & Sawyer. So had Mrs. Walker. Gladstein is known
chiefly for his defense of Communists and Grossman has been a high
Communist functionary for many years.
50 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
These matters were not mentioned by the court, but we feel that
they are vital to a proper understanding of the patient planning, the
long-range strategy, the interlocking aspects of Communist technique
in infiltrating and controlling our most strategic institutions. Go back
and re-read this amazing background; for if we only printed a report
of a dozen pages we could justify it easily by this one example. Let us
now analyze it in summary :
WALKER, MRS. DORIS BRIN
1942 — Graduated from University of California School of Jurisprudence.
1942-1944 — Appointed enforcement attorney in San Francisco.
1944-1945 — Worked for Gladstein, Grossman, Sawyer & Edises to handle labor cases.
1946 — Worked at manual labor in a cannery as organizer for the Communist-domi-,
nated Food, Tobacco and Agricultural Workers of America.
1946, October — Employed by Cutter Laboratories, Inc., Berkeley, California.
1949, October 6th — Fired by Cutter Laboratories because of alleged Communist
Party membership and for making deliberate misstatements in her application
for employment.
CONDON, ROBERT L.
1938 — Graduated from University of California School of Jurisprudence.
1938-1942— Attorney for National Labor Relations Board.
1942 — Chief OPA enforcement attorney for Northern California.
1947 — Associated with the law firm of Edises and Treuhaft in Oakland.
1953 — As a member of Congress, barred from attending atomic bomb tests on basis
of FBI information furnished to Atomic Energy Commission.
EDISES, BERTRAM
1931 — Graduated from University of California, Berkeley.
1937 — Attorney for National Labor Relations Board at Salinas, California.
1941 — Resigned as supervisor of National Labor Relations Board Enforcement
Division in Washington, D. C, to become associated with the San Francisco
firm of Gladstein, Grossman, Margolis and Sawyer.
1941 — Elected as alternate member of the Communist State Committee of California.
1947 — Member, Oakland law firm of Edises, Treuhaft and Condon.
TREUHAFT, ROBERT
1942 — Hearing Commissioner, Office of Price Administration, San Francisco.
1946 — Attorney with Gladstein, Grossman, Sawyer and Edises, San Francisco.
1951, July 1st — Speaker at Communist meeting, Oakland, California.
TREUHAFT, MRS. ROBERT
1943 — -Employed by the Office of Price Administration as an investigator in the
Enforcement Division, San Francisco.
1944-1945 — Financial Director, Communist School, Oakland.
1951 — Invoked Fifth Amendment before this committee in San Francisco in Sep-
tember, 1951, when questioned about her Communist affiliations.
Upon being discharged by her employer, Cutter Laboratories, Mrs.
Doris Brin Walker and her union took the matter up with an abritra-
tion board. A hearing was duly held at which Mrs. Walker steadfastly
refused to answer any questions concerning her membership in the
Communist Party— one of the express reasons why she had been fired.
Prompted by her counsel, Edises, Mrs. Walker's reasons were expressed
as follows :
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 51
"Mr. Edises: Do you wish to explain your reasons for refusing
to answer?
' ' The Witness : Yes, it 's very simple. I consider it a question of
an absolutely unwarranted invasion into my private beliefs, and
I know that it is nothing but a — the whole question is nothing but
a red herring to obscure the real issue in the case."
(Appellant's petition for hearing by the Supreme Court, 1 Civil
No. 15223, pages 33, 34.)
In commenting on this matter the chairman of the arbitration board
declared :
"We have come to a conclusion: That we consider this question
(of Mrs. Walker's Communist affiliation) to be material. The
objection is overruled, but we want to couple the ruling with a
statement of the board : That we will not instruct the witness to
answer if she does not care to answer the question, and she is at
liberty to answer it or not to answer it as she chooses. If she
should refuse, her refusal to answer will stand in the record, and
as in any case, the failure of a party to produce evidence justifies
the fact-finding board in drawing inferences from it. What in-
ferences we will draw from the refusal we have not determined
now, and we will let that await final determination of the case.
"Do you want to answer the question?
' ' The Witness : No, I do not, Mr. Arbitrator.
"The Chairman : All right." (Ibid., page 15.)
The board then concluded from Mrs. Walker's refusal to answer
any questions concerning her Communist affiliations and activities that
she was a member of the Communist Party. It, nevertheless, ordered
her reinstated for other reasons. Cutter Laboratories appealed to the
superior court, where Judge Edward Molkenbuhr sustained the board's
findings. Then Judge Raymond Peters of the First District Court of
Appeal wrote an opinion upholding the decision of Judge Molkenbuhr.
The matter was then submitted to the State Supreme Court, which
reversed the decisions by the inferior tribunals and found, in effect,
that a private firm has not only the right but the duty to discharge a
Communist employee — and that any contractual provision which would
operate to prevent such an action is contrary to public policy and
therefore void. This decision was written by Justice Schauer and con-
curred in by Justices Shenk, Edmonds and Spence. Justice Roger
Traynor prepared the minority dissenting opinion which was shared
by Chief Justice Gibson and Justice Carter.
This decision will produce such a clarifying effect in California that
we quote liberally from its pertinent sections. The committee thus
52 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
makes this vital ease, in its essential elements, available to the public.
Otherwise it would only be accessible to such lawyers as are interested
in reading decisions of this character.
MISREPRESENTATIONS TO GAIN EMPLOYMENT
When Mrs. Walker applied for a job at the Cutter Laboratories she
deliberately made a series of false statements and misrepresentations.
She filled out a personnel questionnaire and under the heading ' ' Edu-
cation" she concealed her attendance at law school, her law degree
and her admission to practice law in California. Under the heading
"Previous Employment" she concealed her entire previous employment
record and showed a false employment as file clerk for six or eight
months in 1939 by a John Trip, attorney, which the company later dis-
covered to be a fictitious name. Mrs. Walker also gave a dentist (Dr.
William R. Berke) and a lawyer (Francis McTernan) in San Francisco
as references, but at her request their letters of recommendation to the
company did not reveal her subterfuge.
It was pointed out in appellant's petition to the Supreme Court that
' ' Francis McTernan is the brother of John Trip McTernan, with whom
petitioner (Mrs. Walker) was closely associated while employed by the
OPA and whose first and middle names made up the fictitious employer,
'John Trip'." This was admitted by Mrs. Walker. (Appellant's peti-
tion for a hearing by the Supreme Court, op. cit., page 8.)
The petition continued: "John Trip McTernan is listed in the
Fourth Report of the Joint Fact-Finding Committee of the Cali-
fornia Legislature on Un-American Activities in California as
having entertained members of the Communist Party and promi-
nent Soviet leaders in his home. (Company exhibit No. 13.) Dr.
William R. Berke is listed in a schedule of classes of the California
Labor (Communist) School reprinted at pages 428-432 of the fifth
report of this committee as being an instructor in a course at that
school entitled, ' The Soviets — Fact and Myth. Everyday life in the
Soviet Union. How the Soviets look at the world. '
"While these circumstances of association might have little sig-
nificance standing alone, their combination with the admitted facts
that both Mr. Francis McTernan and Dr. Berke, at considerable
personal risk, cooperated and conspired with petitioner (Mrs.
Walker) in practicing deliberate deception for the purpose of
establishing petitioner as an employee in a vital defense plant
leads to but one conclusion, namely, that petitioner's mission was
to secure a position at the Cutter plant and in the union with the
purpose and intent of 'strengthening the party' and using her
position to further the Communist Party's program of 'sabotage,
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 53
force, violence, and the like'." (Ibid., pages 8, 9.) (Committee's
italics.)
No sooner had Mrs. Walker landed the job in the label department
of the laboratories at $160 a month, than she plunged into union activi-
ties. In quick succession she became chairman of the plant unit, a mem-
ber of the CIO State Executive Board, and by 1949, was president of
the union, which had units in several other plants in the East Bay area.
In her capacity as shop foreman, executive board member of Local 225,
and especially as chief shop steward, Mrs. Walker had access to all
parts of the Cutter plant. By concealing her brilliant academic back-
ground, her status as an attorney, her experience with the OPA and
her affiliation with the Gladstein firm, this woman posed as a cannery
worker and rank and file union member ; with her talents it was child-
ishly simple for her to rise to a position of influence and prestige in
this offshoot of the Moscow-hatched union of scientists whose counsel
was a Communist official.
In commenting on Mrs. Walker's refusal to answer questions con-
cerning her Communist membership on the ground that they were
"unwarranted invasions into my private beliefs," the Supreme Court
declared : ' ' The evidence as to her Communist membership and ac-
ceptance of party principles, with all the implications that flow there-
from, thus stands unchallenged and uncontradicted by her and clearly
supports the board's finding that the company honestly and sincerely
believed her to be a knowing and deliberately acting Communist."
(Supreme Court decision, op. cit., page 821.)
The Supreme Court also made some extensive comment concerning
the shop-worn claim that to interfere with the Communist Party or
any of its members who also belonged to labor unions is to make an
unwarranted inquiry into a person's political affiliations. The Supreme
Court 's decision on this phase of the matter was as follows :
"It was further found by the board that the company's 1947
investigation of Mrs. Walker indicated that she was a Communist
and also disclosed most of the omissions and falsifications in her
application for employment, that a 'strong case' had been made
out that in 1948 the company learned of her cannery activities
and of the cannery hearings and that there was 'at least a gen-
eral indifference on the part of the company about Doris Walker 's
activities until the autumn of 1949 and a specific indifference about
obvious * * * clues to her background. ' The company stated that
the reason they did not discharge Mrs. Walker in 1947 was be-
cause of a desire to ' lean over backward ' rather than to be accused
of harassing union officials and " because company attorneys ad-
54 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
vised that there was at that time insufficient evidence to support
a discharge.
"Under the provisions of the collective bargaining agreement in
effect when Mrs. Walker was discharged, the company had agreed
not to interfere with, restrain or coerce employees or discriminate
against them because of membership or lawful activity in the union.
It further agreed that, except for personnel reductions for lack of
work or to effect economies, it would not discharge an employee
'except for just cause.' Both the union and the company also
agreed that they will not discriminate against 'a present or pro-
spective employee or member because of race, color, creed, national
origin, religious belief, or union affiliation;' formerly 'political'
as well as ' religious belief ' was listed in this contract provision, but
by negotiation the word 'political' was amended out of the agree-
ment. The board held that although removal of the word 'political'
seemed to authorize the practice of discrimination because of ' polit-
ical belief, ' ' we are unable to conclude ' that the company 's agree-
ment not to discriminate because of union activity and not to
discharge except for just cause were thereby limited or modified
'in such a way as to dispose of this dispute.' In this connection it
is to be noted that the old hoax that the Communist Party is but
a political party has been effectively exposed, as is hereinafter
shown in some detail. (Committee's italics.)
"The company at the board hearings advanced two grounds as
the basis for discharging Mrs. Walker : ' The omissions and falsifi-
cations in the application for employment and membership in the
Communist Party with the full implications of dedication to sabo-
tage, force, violence and the like, which party membership is
believed to entail.' Although finding that the company 'honestly
believed all of these things, ' and that the ' accuracy of those beliefs
is established in the record,' the board further found that the
company had not satisfactorily explained the delay of two years
(from 1947 to 1949) in asserting the grounds for discharge pre-
sented to the board and that such grounds were therefore stale, j
Finally, it was found by the board that the reasons assigned by the
company were not its real reasons for discharging Mrs. Walker,,1
and that actually the discharge, which occurred during wage nego-j
tiations, was 'retaliatory in nature' and 'interfered, restrained,
and coerced an employee because of participation as an officer and
negotiator on behalf of the union in a wage negotiation. ' As already,
stated, the board's award, based on the above findings, was that,
the company's discharge of Mrs. Walker violated the collective
bargaining contract provisions against discrimination because of:
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 55
anion activity and against discharging except for just cause, and
that she is entitled to reinstatement and to limited back pay. The
company failed to comply with the award, the union petitioned the
superior court for its confirmation, and the company asked the
court that it be vacated. ' '
(See Code Civ. Proc, Sections 1287, 1288.)
After a hearing the trial court confirmed the award, and this appeal
by the company followed :
"Section 1288 of the Code of Civil Procedure provides, so far
as here material, that 'in either of the following cases the superior
court * * * must make an order vacating the award, upon the
application of any party to the arbitration : * * *
" '(b) Where the arbitrators exceeded their powers. * * * '
"As ground for reversal the company contends, among other
things and as it contended before the trial court in seeking vacation
of the award, that an arbitration award which directs that a mem-
ber of the Communist Party who is dedicated to that party's pro-
gram of 'sabotage, force, violence and the like' be reinstated to
employment in a plant which produces antibiotics used by both
the military and civilians is against public policy, as expressed in
both federal and state laws, is therefore illegal and void and will
not be enforced by the courts. With this contention we agree.
(Committee's italics.)
"In the case of Loving and Evans v. Blick (1949), 33 Cal. 2d 603
(204P. 2d 23), this court reversed a judgment confirming an arbi-
trator's award of a disputed sum owing under a building contract
where it appeared that only one of the partners of the contracting
firm was licensed as required by statute, and that neither the other
party nor the partnership held such a license. After referring to
the principles that (p. 607) 'a contract made contrary to the terms
of a law designed for the protection of the public and prescribing
a penalty for the violation thereof is illegal and void, and no action
may be brought to enforce such contract' and that (p. 609) 'ordi-
narily with respect to arbitration proceedings "the merits of the
controversy between the parties are not subject to judicial review"
(citation) and that "arbitrators are not bound by strict adherence
to legal procedure and to the rules on the admission of evidence
expected in judicial trials," ' it was held (p. 610) that the 'power
of the arbitrator to determine the rights of the parties is dependent
upon the existence of a valid contract under which such rights
might arise.' That 'section 1281 of the Code of Civil Procedure,
providing for submission to arbitration of ' ' any controversy * * *
which arises out of a contract," does not contemplate that the
56 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
parties may provide for the arbitration of controversies arising out
of contracts which are expressly declared by law to be illegal and
against the public policy of the state,' that (p. 611) 'an unlawful
transaction cannot be given legal vitality by the arbitration proc-
ess,' that (p. 614) 'the only evidence before the trial court showed
without contradiction that the contract upon which the award was
based was illegal and void because of respondent's failure to com-
ply with the licensing requirements, and that therefore the court
had erred in confirming the award. And in Franklin v. Nat C.
Goldston Agency (1949), 33 Cal. 2d 628, 630-633 (204P. 2d 37), a
judgment confirming an arbitration award in favor of unlicensed
contractors was likewise reversed upon the ground that the basic
contract was illegal because in violation of the statutes and of 'the
public policy of this State. '
"It is at once apparent that the controversy now before us pre-
sents an even stronger case for refusal to confirm the award than
was involved in the Loving and Evans and in the Franklin cases.
There the illegality was held to exist in the contracts upon which
the awards were based, while here the very award itself is illegal
in that it orders reinstatement as an employee of one whose dedi-
cation to and active support of Communist principles and practices
stands proved and unchallenged in the record. As is hereinafter
shown, the true implications of knowing membership in and sup-
port of the Communist Party are no longer open to doubt, and the
long overworked party line theme that Communism is but a political
activity has been exposed as a false and fraudulent strategem de-
signed particularly as a device for securing, in the free nations
having government by law, legal support for the 'party' in carry-
ing on to the end of its illegal objectives. (Committee's italics.)
"The Congress of the United States, in adopting the Internal
Security Act of 1950, declared the dangers of the Communist
movement in the following terms (Act of Sept. 23, 1950, Ch. 1024,
Title I, Sec. 2, 64 Stats. 987; 50 U. S. C. A. Sec. 781) :
" 'As a result of evidence adduced before various committees of
the Senate and House of Representatives, the Congress finds
that — : (1) There exists a world Communist movement which in
its origin, its development, and its present practice, is a world-
wide revolutionary movement whose purpose it is, by treachery,
deceit, infiltration into other groups (governmental and other-
wise), espionage, sabotage, terrorism, and any other means deemed
necessary, to establish a Communist totalitarian dictatorship in the
countries throughout the world through the medium of a world-
wide Communist organization.
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 57
" '(2) The establishment of a totalitarian dictatorship in any-
country results in the suppression of all opposition to the party in
power, the subordination of the rights of individuals to the
state, the denial of fundamental rights and liberties which are
characteristic of a representative form of government, such as free-
dom of speech, of the press, of assembly and of religious worship,
and results in the maintenance of control over the people through
fear, terrorism, and brutality. * * *
" ' (9) In the United States those individuals who knowingly
and wilfully participate in the world Communist movement, when
they so participate, in effect re-dedicate their allegiance to the for-
eign country in which is vested the direction and control of the
world Communist movement. * * *
" '(15) The Communist movement in the United States is an
organization numbering thousands of adherents, rigidly and ruth-
lessly disciplined. Awaiting and seeking to advance a movement
when the United States may be so far extended by foreign engage-
ments, so far divided in counsel, or so far in industrial or financial
straits, that overthrow of the government may seem possible of
achievement, it seeks converts far and wide by an extensive system
of schooling and indoctrination. Such preparations by Communist
organizations in other countries have aided in supplanting existing
governments. The Communist organization in the United States,
pursuing its stated objectives, the recent successes of Communist
methods in other countries, and the nature and control of the
world Communist movement itself, present a clear and present
danger to the security of the United States and to the existence of
free American institutions, and make it necessary that Congress,
in order to provide for the common defense, to preserve the sov-
ereignty of the United States as an independent nation, and to
guarantee to each state a republican form of government, enact
appropriate legislation recognizing the existence of such world-
wide conspiracy and designed to prevent it from accomplishing its
purpose in the United States. '
" And in the Smith Act (Act of June 25, 1948, Ch. 645, 62 Stats.
808 ; 18 U. S. C. A. Sec. 2385), it was provided that 'whoever know-
ingly or wilfully advocates, abets, advises, or teaches the * * *
overthrowing or destroying the Government of the United States
or * * * of any state * * * by force or violence, or * * * who-
ever organizes or helps or attempts to organize any society, group,
or assembly of persons who * * * encourage the overthrow or de-
struction of any such government by force or violence ; or becomes
58 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
or is a member of, or affiliates with, any such * * * assembly of
persons, knowing the purposes thereof ' is guilty of a crime.
"More recently, in adopting the Communist Control Act of
1954 (Public Law 637, Ch. 886, approved August 24, 1954), our
Congress further expressed its, and necessitates our, awareness of
the true nature of the party program and methods in these find-
ings of fact :
" 'Sec. 2. The Congress hereby finds and declares that the
Communist Party of the United States, although purportedly a
political party, is in fact an instrumentality of a conspiracy to
overthrow the government of the United States. It constitutes an
authoritarian dictatorship within a republic, demanding for itself
the rights and privileges accorded to political parties, but denying
to all others the liberties guaranteed by the Constitution. Unlike
political parties, which evolve their policies and programs through
public means, by the reconciliation of a wide variety of individual
views, and submit those policies and programs to the electorate at
large for approval or disapproval, the policies and programs of the
Communist Party are secretly prescribed for it by the foreign
leaders of the world Communist movement. Its members have no
part in determining its goals, and are not permitted to voice dis-
sent to party objectives. Unlike members of political parties, mem-
bers of the Communist Party are recruited for indoctrination with
respect to its objectives and methods, and are organized, in-
structed, and disciplined to carry into action slavishly the assign-
ments given them by their hierarchial chieftans. Unlike political
parties, the Communist Party acknowledges no constitutional or
statutory limitations upon its conduct or upon that of its mem-
bers. The Communist Party is relatively small numerically, and
gives scant indication of capacity ever to attain its ends by lawful
political means. The peril inherent in its operation arises not from
its numbers, but from its failure to acknowledge any limitation as
to the nature of its activities, and its dedication to the proposition
that the present constitutional government of the United Sates
ultimately must be brought to ruin by any available means, includ-
ing resort to force and violence. Holding that doctrine, its role as
the agency of a hostile foreign power renders its existence a clear
present and continuing danger to the security of the United
States. It is the means whereby individuals are seduced into the
services of the world Communist movement, trained to do its bid-
ding, and directed and controlled in the conspiratorial perform-
ance of their revolutionary services. Therefore, the Communist
Party should be outlawed. '
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 59
"A similar awareness was shown by the President of the United
States in his State of the Union message delivered before a joint
session of the Senate and House of Representatives on January 7,
1954 (100 Congressional Record 62, H. Doe. 251), wherein he de-
clared, 'The subversive character of the Communist Party in the
United States has been clearly demonstrated in many ways, in-
cluding court proceedings. We should recognize by law a fact that
is plain to all thoughtful citizens — that we are dealing here with
action akin to treason — that when a citizen knowingly participates
in the Communist conspiracy he no longer holds allegiance to the
United States.'
"And in this State the courts have recognized that the type of
activity found by the board here to have been engaged in by Mrs.
Walker — i.e., membership 'in the Communist Party with the full
implications of dedication to sabotage, force, violence and the like,
which party membership is believed to entail' — constitutes a viola-
tion of the California Criminal Syndicalism Act (Pen. Code, Sees.
11400-11402, formerly Deering's Gen. Laws, Act 8428; see People
v. McCormiek (1951), 102 Cal. App. 2d Supp. 954, 962 (228 P. 2d
349); People v. Chambers (1937), 22 Cal. App. 2d 687, 709-713,
(72 P. 2d 746).
"The Legislature of California itself has found as fact, and has
so declared in Sec. 1027.5 of the Government Code, that '* * *
(a) There exists a world-wide revolutionary movement to estab-
lish a totalitarian dictatorship based upon force and violence
rather than upon law.
" '(d) Within the boundaries of the State of California there
are active disciplined Communist organizations presently function-
ing for the primary purpose of advancing the objectives of the
world Communist movement, which organizations promulgate,
advocate, and adhere to the precepts of the principles and doc-
trines of the world Communism movement. These Communist
organizations are characterized by identification of their programs,
policies, and objectives with those of the world Communist move-
ment, and they regularly and consistently cooperate with and en-
deavor to carry into execution programs, policies and objectives
substantially identical to programs, policies, and objectives as such
world Communism movement. * * *
' ' ' There is a clear and present danger, which the Legislature of
the State of California finds is great and imminent, that in order
to advance the program, policies and objectives of the world Com-
munism movement, Communist organizations in the State of Cali-
fornia and their members will engage in concerted effort to ham-
60 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
per, restrict, interfere with, impede, or nullify the efforts of the
state and the public agencies of the state to comply with and en-
force the laws of the State of California * * * '
"Further evidencing the implications of membership in the
Communist Party and the policy of the state in respect thereto,
the Legislature has declared that (Gov. Code, Sec. 1028) : 'It
shall be sufficient cause for the dismissal of any public employee
when such public employee advocates or is knowingly a member
of the Communist Party or of an organization which during the
time of his membership he knows advocates overthrow of the
government of the United States or of any state by force or
violence.' (See also Board of Education v. Wilkinson (1954) 125
Cal. App. 2d 100 (270 P. 2d 82).
"A private employer, particularly one largely engaged in sup-
plying manufactured products to the government, to its armed
forces, and to retailers for distribution through hospitals and doc-
tors to the public at large, should not be required by state action
through its courts (see Shelley v. Kraemer (1948), 344 U. 8. 1 (68
8. Ct. 836, 92 L. Ed. 1161, 3 A. L. R. 2d 441; Hurd v. Hodge
(1948)), 334 U. 8. 24, 68 S. Ct. 847, 92 L. Ed. 1187) to retain in
or restore to employment a person who would not be entitled to
state employment and who is known to have dedicated herself to the
service of a foreign power and to the practice of sabotage to the end
of overthrowing our government. (Committee's italics.)
"Graphically depictive of the nature of the Communist con-
spiracy and of the extremes to which it is prepared to resort are
the following statements by Mr. Justice Jackson, concurring in
Dennis v. United States (1951), 341 U. S. 494, 564-565, 71 S. Ct.
857, 95 L. Ed. 1137, 1191), 'The Communist Party, nevertheless,
does not seek its strength primarily in numbers. Its aim is a rela-
tively small party whose strength is in selected, dedicated, indoc-
trinated, and rigidly disciplined members. From established policy
it tolerates no deviation and no debate. It seeks members that are,
or may be, secreted in strategic posts in transportation, communica-
tions, industry, government, and especially in labor unions where
it can compel employers to accept and retain its members. It also
seeks to infiltrate and control organizations of professional and
other groups. Through these placements in positions of power it
seeks a leverage over society that will make up in power of co-
ercion what it lacks in power of persuasion.
' ' ' The Communists have no scruples against sabotage, terrorism,
assassination, or mob disorder; but violence is not with them, as
with the anarchists, an end in itself. The Communist Party advo-
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 61
cates force only when prudent and profitable. Their strategy of
stealth precludes premature or uncoordinated outbursts of violence,
except, of course, when the blame will be placed on shoulders other
than their own. They resort to violence as to truth, not as a princi-
ple but as an expedient. Force or violence, as they would resort to
it, may never be necessary, because infiltration and deception may
be enough.
11 'Force would be utilized by the Communist Party not to
destroy government but for its capture. The Communist recognizes
that an established government in control of modern technology
cannot be overthrown by force until it is about ready to fall of its
own weight. Concerted uprising, therefore, is to await that con-
tingency and revolution is seen, not as a sudden episode but as the
consummation of a long process. '
"Other instances of recognition by the courts of the clear and
present danger to this Country and to its institutions presented by
the Communist Party and its adherents may be found in the deci-
sions upholding the provisions of the Labor Management Relations
Act of 1947, also known as the Taft-Hartley Act (Act, June 23,
1947, Ch. 120, Sec. 1, et seq. ; 61 Stats. 136 et seq. ; 29 U. S. C. A.
Sec. 141 et seq.), which deny the privilege of being chosen as ex-
clusive bargaining agent to a union whose officers have not filed
with the National Labor Relations Board their affidavits denying
membership or affiliation with the Communist Party and denying
belief in the overthrow of the United States Government by force
(see American Communications Assn., C. I. 0. v. Bonds (1950), 339
U. S. 382, 70 S. Ct. 674, 94 L. Ed. 925 ; National Maritime Union
of America v. Eerzog (D. 0., 1948), 78 F. Supp. 146, affirmed 334
U. S. 854, 68 S. Ct. 1529, 92 L. Ed. 1776; Inland Steel Co. v.
National Labor Relations Board, C. C. A. 7, 1948, 170 F. 2d 247,
264-267, affirmed 339 U. S. 382, 70 S. Ct. 674, 94 L. Ed. 925), as
well as in cases sustaining other legislation or congressional inquiry
directed at exposing and controlling Communist activities in this
Country. (See Lawson v. United States, C. C. A., D. C, 1949, 176
F. 2d 49, certiorari denied, 339 U. S. 934, 70 S. Ct, 663, 94 L. Ed.
1352; United States v. Bennis, C. C. A., 2, 1950, 183 F. 2d 201,
212-213, affirmed, Bennis v. United States, 1951, supra, 341 U. S.
494, 71 S. Ct. 857, 95 L. Ed. 1137; Barsky v. United States,
C. C. A., D. C, 1948, 167 F. 2d 241, 247, certiorari denied, 334
U. S. 843, 68 S. Ct. 1511, 92 L. Ed. 1767 ; Galvan v. Press, 1953,
347 U. S. 552, 529, 74 S. Ct. 737, 98 L. Ed. 911). In the Bonds
case, supra, the court pointed out that before enacting the Taft-
Hartley Act ' Congress had a great mass of material before it which
tended to show that Communists and others proscribed by the
62 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
statute had infiltrated union organizations not to support and
further trade union objectives, including the advocacy of change
by democratic methods, but to make them a device by which com-
merce and industry might be disrupted when the dictates of
political policy required such action.' (P. 389 of 339 U. S.)
"Also relevant are the following comments of the court in
Garner v. Board of Public Works, 1950, 98 Cal App. 2d 493, 498,
220 P. 2d 958, affirmed, 1951, 341 U. S. 716, 71 S. Ct. 909, 95 L. Ed.
1317, in upholding an ordinance requiring a loyalty oath for
municipal employees: 'One of the foundation stones of private
business is that the employee must be loyal to his employer. Loy-
alty is implicit in the contract of hiring. No private business can
long succeed without the conscientious, undivided support of its
employees. The man or woman who denies allegiance to his employ-
ment is, and should be, soon separated from it * * * and, so long
as the employment continues, every employer has the right at any
time to ask his employee to declare his loyalty. ' To the same effect
is the holding in National Labor Relations Board v. International
Brotherhood of Electrical Workers, 1953, 346 U. S. 464, 472, 74
S. Ct. 172, 98 L. Ed. 195, 'there is no more elemental cause for
discharge of an employee than disloyalty to his employer.' (See
also National Labor Relations Board v. Jones and Laughlin Steel
Corp., 1937, 301 U. S. 1, 45-46, 57 S. Ct. 615, 81 L. Ed. 893, 108
A. L. R. 1352 ; RKO Radio Pictures, Inc. v. Jarrico, 1945, 128 Cal.
App. 2d, 274 P. 2d 928). From the array of congressional and
legislative findings which have been quoted above, if not from the
common knowledge of mankind, it must be accepted as conclusively
established that a member of the Communist Party cannot be
loyal to his private employer as against any directive of his Com-
munist master. (Committee's italics.)
' ' We are of the view, further, that the type of activity engaged
in by the employee here — membership in the Communist Party
and sustained participation in its activities — is one which as a
matter of public policy the company should not be held to have
waived by its failure to discharge her earlier than it did. In the
first place, it is an established principle that parties cannot be
estopped from relying on defenses based on considerations of
public policy, such as illegal contracts. In the second place*, the
employee's party membership was not shown or even asserted
by her to have been an instance of past error but appears, rather,
to have been the studied and calculated choice of a person of some
intellectual attainment, and to have been persisted in on an active
and devoted basis even at the time of the board hearings. Thus
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 63
an entirely adequate ground for refusing to employ her (whether
by original refusal to hire or by discharge) was a continuing one
which was available to the employer at any time during its exist-
ence. In this connection it may also he noted that the employer
had not only the right to protect itself and its customers against
the clear and present danger of continuing a Communist Party
member in its employ, but also the duty to take such action as it
deemed wise to preserve order in its plant and to protect its other
employees, loth union and nonunion, against the same danger and
the possibility of 'sabotage, force, violence and the like.' (Com-
mittee's italics.)
''The company properly stated in its notice of discharge as
related above, 'the nature of our company's business requires more
than the usual precaution against sabotage and subversion. Upon
a disclosure that any employee is a member of the Communist
Party * * * we conceive it to be the responsibility of management
to take action.' Knowing the facts which the company knew, it
is difficult to conceive of any tenable defense which it could make,
or which would be entertained in this court, as against an action
for damages in a personal injury or wrongful death case arising
from the wilful adulteration of any of its products by Mrs. Walker
if it continued her in its employ and she should thereafter take that
means of party activity. That acts of sabotage by Communists
are reasonably to be expected at any time such acts may be directed
by the party leader is not open to question, as has already been
shown. (Committee's italics.)
"The fact that the company was not specifically obliged by any
governmental regulation to discharge Mrs. Walker affects in no
wise its right to do so or the impelling public policy which militates
against the order for her reinstatement; in this country, built as
it has been on the initiative and self-reliance of its citizens, the
Government is expected to step in only where the employer has
failed or is unable to act for himself, and he is not obligated to
await a governmental decree before taking steps to protect himself
or to exercise his right to discharge employees who upon the estab-
lished facts are dedicated to be disloyal to him, to be likewise
disloyal to the American labor union they may purport to serve,
and who constitute a continuing risk to both the employing com-
pany and the public depending upon the company's products.
"This is not the first time that this court has been called upon
to recognize and give specific effect to the public policy where its
duty in the premises is clear. (Citing authorities.)
64 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
"Lastly, in the light of the undisputed evidence and of the
specific findings of fact made by the arbitration board, it clearly
appears that the conclusional finding that Mrs. Walker was dis-
charged because of her labor union activities is untenable. We have
here an exemplification of that which Justice Jackson (in Dennis
v. United States, 1941, supra, 341 U. S. 494, 564, 71 S. Ct. 857,
95 L. Ed. 1137, 1191) so clearly envisaged when he said of the
Communist Party : ' From established policy it tolerates no devia-
tion and no debate. It seeks members that are, or may be secreted
in strategic posts in * * * industry * * * and especially in labor
unions where it can compel employers to accept and retain its
members,' and of that to which the court referred when it stated
in American Co)iirmcnications Assn., C. I. 0. v. Douds, 1950,
supra, 339 U. S. 382, 389, 70 S. Ct. 674, 94 L. Ed. 925: 'Congress
(in enacting the Taft-Hartley Act) had a great mass of material
before it which tended to show that Communists and others pro-
scribed by the statute had infiltrated union organizations not to
support and further trade union objectives * * * but to make
them a device by which commerce and industry might be disrupted
* * * .' The issue of labor union activity herein is manifestly a
false one, a subterfuge injected not to promote the cause of
American labor but to further the Communist Party line. Mrs.
Walker, as a Communist, was not at any time nor in any of her
activities truly serving the cause of an American labor union or
the interests of an American laboring man ; she was but doing
the bidding and serving the cause of her foreign master who
'tolerates no deviation and no debate.' Her activities, therefore,
upon any reasonable view of the evidence and the specific findings
of fact, were not in truth union labor activities but were Com-
munist Party activities.
"Of no small significance in this connection is the fact that at
the arbitration board hearing Mrs. Walker was asked, and she
refused to answer the question, 'isn't it a fact, Mrs. Walker * * *
that the reason why you sought employment * * * in Cutter Lab-
oratories was because you felt and believed, and had it in mind,
that obtaining that employment at that plant you could more
actively and more effectively carry on the program and the activi-
ties of the Communist Party?' It is, we think, indisputable that
if Mrs. Walker sought and obtained employment at Cutter
Laboratories so that she 'could more actively and more effectively
carry on the program and the activities of the Communist Party,'
her reinstatement in that employment would serve no cause save
that of the Communist conspiracy. The courts of this Country by
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 65
making such an order would be but aiding toward destruction of
the government they are sworn to uphold. The contract between
Cutter Laboratories and the Bio-Lab Union cannot be construed,
and will not be enforced, to protect activities by a Communist on
behalf of her party whether in the guise of unionism or otherwise."
(Committee's italics.)
WILKINSON AND EISENBERG CASES
In September and October, 1952, this committee held hearings in Los
Angeles relative to certain employees of the Housing Authority of that
city. Two of the witnesses who were subpenaed to testify were Jean
Benson Wilkinson, a teacher in the East Los Angeles Girls Vocational
High School, and Frances Eisenberg, an officer in the Los Angeles Fed-
eration of Teachers, Local 430, and also a teacher in the Los Angeles
school system. Each of the witnesses was questioned concerning alleged
Communist Party activities and affiliations, and each invoked the Fifth
Amendment and refused to answer any questions concerning this sub-
ject. The Los Angeles City Board of Education promptly moved to
discharge both of these employees, and they resorted to the courts for
reinstatement.
In rendering a decision in the Wilkinson case the California District
Court of Appeals held (Board of Education v. Wilkinson, 125 Cal.
App. 2d 100, 106-107) that the school board had a perfect right to dis-
charge any teacher or other employee who refused to answer questions
propounded by this committee concerning her Communist affiliations.
The opinion, in part, is as follows :
' ' In the lif e-and-death struggle into which our people have been
plunged by the monstrous conspiracy called Communism, it is be-
coming more and more apparent that it is essential for the con-
tinuance of our national life that we know who is for us and who is
against us. This is no time to allow any person who would destroy
us, our liberties, our religious convictions, and our government to
be employed in any branch of that government — 'to bite the hand
that feeds it.' The men and women of America who pay their
salaries have a right to know whether or not any of their employees
are Communists."
In passing upon the action of Mrs. Eisenberg, the court also upheld
the right of the Los Angeles City Board of Education to discharge a
teacher who refused to answer questions put by this committee concern-
ing Communist activities and affiliations (129 A.C.A. 868, at page 877).
In discussing the resolution whereby this committee was created, and
which prescribes its scope of authority, the court said:
"The Legislature having determined, as did the Los Angeles
Board of Education, that the infiltration of Communism is detri-
mental to the general welfare, it did the next logical thing by send-
ing out, as its emissaries, committees to ascertain the extent of the
(66)
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 67
detriment caused and likely to be caused by advocates or prowlers
for Communism. There is nothing un-American in such action. It is
done to protect the United States and every subdivision thereof.
No attempt is made to bridle free speech. The resolution means no
more than 'stand up and be counted.' It makes no interdiction
against any person's saying whatever he desires to say. It is de-
signed to give the Legislature a knowledge of social conditions pre-
vailing in California whereby to make laws intelligently. * * *"
The committee has seen fit to set forth these recent legal decisions not
only for the purpose of dispelling a great deal of Communist propa-
ganda nonsense concerning the power of the State Legislature and the
propriety of its committee inquiring into Communist activities through-
out the State, and not only to widely disseminate these decisions and
make them available to the public and the press, but also to counteract a
great deal of false information constantly being spread among deluded
progressives and fellow-travelers by that well known little group of
attorneys in this State who have been known to this committee for al-
most 16 years for their constant loyalty and devotion to members of the
Communist Party and to the Communist Party itself. These attorneys,
many of whom have been identified as party members, are responsible
for a widespread dissemination of utter nonsense concerning the true
state of the law in these matters and who are constantly exhorting their
clients and their followers to defy constituted authority. The committee
trusts that these decisions, hereby made available through the medium
of this report, may effectively counteract such propaganda.
The recital of these facts whereby Doris Walker — brilliant, capable,
dedicated — used her talents for the purpose of furthering the cause of
international Communism, is literally packed with grim warning. This
girl plunged into the Communist conspiracy immediately upon graduat-
ing from the law school of the state university. She emerged from that
institution as a fanatic representative of a group pledged to undermine
our government and to pervert our way of life. Why, indeed, was she
selected to worm her way into the particular concern for which she
worked? Why was she designated to emerge as the leader of a union
which had been conceived at the Lenin School ?
We are reminded of a similar case that occurred a few years ago in
California. It came to our attention that a former editor of the Daily
People's World had disappeared from public view. He had left his home
in San Francisco and literally vanished into thin air. An investigation
disclosed that he had obtained a position as a telegraph operator for one
of our great railroad systems, and in this sensitive position had been
assigned to various locations that were clearing centers for large move-
ments of freight. The position was obtained by the use of a cover organ-
68 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
ization, the giving of fictitious information, and a use of strategem and
device to insure employment in this particular capacity much as Doris
Walker concealed material facts from her employer in order to land the
desired job. In the case of the telegraph dispatcher it is quite obvious
that any sudden movement of vast quantities of strategic materials,
such as molybdenum, uranium ore, tanks, airplane parts, or other crit-
ical supplies, would provide information of enormous potential value to
a potential enemy. Since much of our critical ore and metal is produced
by a union that was expelled from the C. I. 0. for alleged Communist
infiltration and control, the United Mine, Mill and Smelter Workers of
America, and since the International Federation of Architects, Engi-
neers, Chemists and Technicians had sent their members into the fac-
tories, laboratories and technical research projects from one end of the
Country to the other, the Doris Brin Walker case is simply a repetition
bringing the well known Communist technique of penetrating sensitive
areas down to date and nailing it home through a sweeping decision of
our State Supreme Court.
In another section of this report the committee sets forth its experi-
ences in hearings in connection with an investigation of the infiltration
by Communists into our public utilities. From the Cutter Laboratory
case we can learn a most important lesson. We can learn that members
of the Communist Party are not directed to carry on their conspira-
torial work and to send their members into our most sensitive institu-
tions from a love of power or in hope of monetary profit. On the con-
trary, these people are prompted by far more dangerous motives. If
they were motivated by elements of greed for power or money, it would
be a relatively simple matter to handle the problem. One man who had
been a member of the party in this country for 17 years hammered
home the point that all Communists he had ever known originally en-
tered the party in the mistaken belief that through it they had found
a medium for the solving of all of the maladjustments and social ill-
nesses that affected civilization. When we find people like Julius and
Ethel Rosenberg who go to their death in the electric chair, convicted
traitors to their country, and grimly refuse to reveal anything about
the persons with whom they were associated in their traitorous enter-
prise, then we begin to realize the true danger with which we are con-
fronted. This is nothing new in history. There is nothing new about
fanatics who are willing to make any sacrifice for the principles in
which they believe and for the cause to which they are dedicated.
When the Christian martyrs were clawed to death by wild beasts in
the Roman arenas and sang hymns as they were actually dying, we
simply saw another manifestation of this characteristic.
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 69
Doris Walker sacrificed her legal training, sacrificed her opportunity
to make for herself a reputation as a capable attorney, and preferred
instead to live a life of secrecy and of subterfuge ; to attend to the con-
spiratorial business of undermining our country and to achieve that
end she did not hesitate to lie, misrepresent, and to employ every ruse
and artifice for the purpose of gaining her subversive objective. So it
is with the other members of the Communist Party, fanaticized and ded-
icated as they are, and who will never hesitate to make any sacrifice
demanded of them for the purpose of worming their way into the heart
of a public utility, a critical labor union, a university, a high school,
or in positions of influence on newspapers, in the employ of our tax
exempt foundations, in our laboratories, in the employ of our state,
county or municipal governments, or in any other position which the
party considers of strategic use in its relentless campaign to destroy
the American form of government and plant a ruthless dictatorship in
its place.
COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF THE MEDICAL
PROFESSION
On Monday, December 6, 1954, the committee met in the State Build-
ing at Los Angeles to conduct a public hearing concerning Communist
infiltration of the Los Angeles County Medical Association. For almost
a week the committee heard the testimony of more than 30 witnesses
and received in evidence hundreds of documentary exhibits.
Heretofore the committee has refrained from burdening its reports
with a verbatim repetition of the entire transcript of any hearing. In
its 1951 report the committee considered the evidence received in the
case of the murder of Everitt Hudson to be of such importance that
very little of the testimony was omitted from the report. In this investi-
gation and hearing concerning Communist infiltration of the medical
profession in the southern part of the State, the committee believes that
it cannot possibly do justice to the subject without presenting the trans-
cript of the hearing almost verbatim. The public can then see for itself
that at these hearings the witnesses are not insulted or browbeaten ; that
their civil liberties are not invaded ; that they are treated with uniform
courtesy and consideration by the committee, and that the insults, vitu-
peration, abuses and smearing usually come from the witnesses rather
than from the committee — as the Communists, their propaganda experts
and party sympathizers, together with a growing legion of self-
appointed guardians of our civil liberties would have the public be-
lieve. Furthermore, the committee believes that those who read this
portion of its report cannot help but draw logical inferences from the
startling contrast between the group of witnesses comprising officers
of the Los Angeles County Medical Association, who testified frankly
and fully, and the group of witnesses which followed and comprised
those concerning whom the committee had already amassed considerable
evidence of subversive affiliation or activity. It will also be manifest
that the witnesses who identified persons known to them as Communist
Party members had never seen each other until the time they took the
witness stand to give their testimony, and that there was not the slight-
est chance of collusion or pre-arrangement between them. We also wish
to make it very clear that the testimony of those witnesses who identi-
fied Communist Party members simply corroborated evidence which had
been in the possession of the committee for a period of several years.
As will be seen, the committee did not initiate this investigation and
hearing. It was intiated by the Los Angeles County Medical Associa-
tion itself, which became alarmed at evidences that it was being infil-
(70)
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 71
trated by subversive elements. When some of the responsible officers of
the association actually attended Communist front meetings and saw
for themselves what transpired, they determined to ask the California
Senate Committee on Un-American Activities to undertake an investi-
gation and to hold a hearing. The committee, realizing the nature of
the organization concerned, endeavored at all times to conduct the
investigation and hearing in a manner commensurate with the dignity
and status of the medical profession. As we have observed in other
reports, techniques of investigation and conduct of hearings are gov-
erned largely by the circumstances involved. We prefer to hold no
public hearings concerning infiltration of teachers organizations or edu-
cational institutions. When the problem becomes so critical that a pub-
lic hearing is the only means of getting at the facts and endeavoring
to remedy the situation, then the committee has no alternative. It
realizes, however, that the educational field is one of great sensitivity,
and it prefers that the educational administrators on all levels handle
the problem themselves. An entirely different technique is indicated in
the investigation of the Communist Party itself, its front organizations,
its propaganda media, and its underground operations. A still different
approach is indicated in many of the other phases of the ceaseless job
of developing the true facts concerning subversive activities in this
State.
The committee was especially fortunate in this instance in having
the services of Mrs. Ruth Drader, who had been acting as an under-
cover agent for the committee during a period of approximately four
years preceding the date of the hearing. As will be seen from her testi-
mony, Mrs. Drader, under an assumed name, managed to work her way
into positions of responsibility in several Communist front organiza-
tions. From these points of vantage she rendered regular written reports
to the committee concerning the many meetings which she attended and
the names of people she observed actually operating these Communist
fronts during the entire period of her employment.
OFFICERS OF THE LOS ANGELES COUNTY MEDICAL ASSOCIATION
Following is an account of the testimony from officers and representa-
tives of the Los Angeles County Medical Association who appeared and
testified before the committee on December 6 and 7, 1954, together
with testimony received from the deans of medical schools in Los An-
geles universities, and the testimony of Dr. Nathaniel Bercovitz, a medi-
cal missionary to China, whose revelations to the committee concerning
his experience with Communists proved extremely enlightening and
pertinent. The hearing commenced on Monday, December 6, 1954,
with a statement by Senator Burns, the committee chairman.
72 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
"Chairman Burns: The committee will please come to order. As a
preface to this hearing today, and which will probably be continued
during the week, it is pursuant to a request made upon the committee
by officials of the Los Angeles County Medical Society to conduct an
inquiry into certain activities that were a subject of suspicion by several
leaders of the medical profession in this county. The committee has
known, of course, and all investigative bodies of this kind have known
for a long time, that the professions have been a keen objective of the
Communist Party.
"Men in professional life hold a position of respect and influence
in the communities in which they reside, and any intellectual group,
as well as other organized groups, are to be used to further the interests
of subversive organizations such as the Communist Party.
"The committee, pursuant to this request, has conducted, over a
period of a year or more, an inquiry into infiltration by the party into
professional endeavors in this county. This hearing, we hope, will end
this inquiry and complete the efforts of our committee in securing all
of the information relating to the activities of the Communist Party
that we can as far as the medical profession is concerned.
' ' Today and tomorrow we have, in the main, as witnesses prominent
physicians and surgeons of Los Angeles, and, following their testimony,
we are asking individuals to come and give us the benefit of their in-
formation that may be involved in furthering the work of the Com-
munist leadership as far as the medical profession is concerned. We
have had professional investigators working and towards the end of
the week we will hear their testimony.
"I think that I should impress upon you and for the benefit of the
gentlemen of the press that are here that, merely because the committee
has conducted its inquiry and is in the process of conducting it, we are
at the present time accusing no individual of any wrongdoing and,
because of the fact that we have asked individuals to appear before us
is no indication of their wrongdoing; and I have repeatedly attempted
to impress this upon the public mind for the reason that there has been
stigma attached to individuals appearing before this committee and
giving it the benefit of their knowledge and their ideas.
' ' I think that is all that the chairman wishes to say except that pres-
ent here today is a working majority of the Senate Committee on Un-
American Activities, and present are Senator Jack McCarthy of Marin
County, residence, San Rafael ; Senator Jack Thompson of Santa Clara
County, and whose residence is in San Jose; the executive secretary
of the committee, Mrs. Mary E. Hope ; counsel for the committee, Mr.
R. E. Combs, and Sergeant-at-Arms of the Senate, Mr. Joseph Nolan.
"With these remarks, I will declare the committee ready to conduct.
its business for the day.
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 73
"Mr. Combs: Mr. Chairman and Members of the Committee, I wish
to point out that all of the witnesses who will testify throughout this
session will do so under subpena. There will be no volunteer witnesses.
And, by way of prefacing the more detailed portions of the evidence,
I wish to read into the record now a statement issued by William Z.
Foster as head of the Communist Party of the United States, which
appeared in the official publication of the National Committee of the
Communist Party of the United States, a publication called The Com-
munist, published in September, 1938, in which he removes any possible
lingering doubt about the purposes of the Communist Party of this
Country to infiltrate and insinuate its members into strategic profes-
sions, in not only the professions but in particular the medical profes-
sion. And I think it is appropriate to read this basic declaration by
the head of the Communist Party of the United States into the record
before calling the first witness. The material which, as I said, was taken
from the September, 1938, issue of the magazine, The Communist, at
page 805 and following pages, reads as follows :
" 'In late years, and particularly during our recent big recruiting
campaign, an appreciable number of professionals, doctors, dentists,
lawyers, engineers, teachers, actors, etc., have joined our party, notably
in the New York area.
" 'In drawing professionals into the party, care should be exercised
to select only those individuals who show by practical work that they
definitely understand the party line, are prepared to put it into effect,
and especially display a thorough readiness to accept party discipline.
It is not enough that professionals should support our general struggle
for democracy and peace ; they must also accept the socialist principles
of our party. There must be selective recruiting far more than in the
case of miners, longshoremen, railroad workers, etc. General party units
which proceed upon the basis of mass recruitment of lawyers, or of
drawing doctors into the party on a large scale, have a wrong policy.'
"Here, again, is the familiar Communist emphasis on quality rather
than quantity of professional members. Foster continued :
" 'There must be special attention paid to the Marxian education of
professionals entering our party. This should have the definite goal of
thoroughly communizing their outlook and reorienting their previous
intellectual training so that its full value may be utilized in a revolu-
tionary sense by our party and the masses.
" 'Communist professionals also have the very important task of
advancing and even revolutionizing the techniques and theories of their
respective professions. They must take up the intellectual cudgels
against the reactionaries on all fronts. Thus, our teachers must write
new textbooks and rewrite history from the Marxian viewpoint; our
scientists must organize more effectively the battle of the materialists
74 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
against the idealists in every branch, of science ; our doctors must intro-
duce new methods into medicine ; the American Medical Association is
not only reactionary politically but also medically; our lawyers must
challenge prevalent musty capitalist legal conceptions and rewrite our
legal history; our writers must bring forward class-struggle themes in
literature and the theater, etc. In short, our Communist professionals
must develop a powerful Marxist-Leninist ideological front against the
reactionaries and their Trotzkyite-Lovestoneite stooges in every field of
artistic and intellectual endeavor.'
"There was some criticism of the statement made by Mr. Foster to
the effect that the American Medical Association was reactionary both
politically and professionally and, after he had been criticized and
questioned concerning that conclusion, he inserted another article in
The Communist magazine for December, 1938, at page 1137, in which
he said :
" 'As Communists, we cannot allow ourselves to be tied in such a
narrow and reactionary conception of medicine as that of the A. M. A.
We are interested not only in developing health work in the sense of
improving and extending the art of healing, but, above all, in the
prevention of sickness by literally building up the people's health. A
people's health program is quite a different thing from the medical
guide-like policy of the A. M. A. Hence, we must be the champions,
especially our physician comrades, in fighting for all the political,
economic, educational and technical measures necessary to advance a
true people's health program. And, in the measure that we do this, we
are bound to find ourselves more or less in opposition to the A. M. A.
policy on various fronts, not only political and social but also medical.
" '"We do not have to wait until after the revolution to begin sup-
porting these broader principles of a people's health program. Their
realization here and now, so far as possible, is a major task of the
democratic front, and we should try to educate the movement to that
effect. When we grasp more clearly the nature of such a broad people 's
health program and begin to work seriously for its realization, then, as
we encounter the A. M. A. 's hostile attitude, we will have no difficulty
in understanding that the A. M. A., under its present leadership and
policies, is reactionary not only politically, but also medically. '
"That appeared in the official publication of the Communist Party
of the United States in December, 1938.
"Now, Mr. Chairman and Members of the Committee, we have asked
members of the medical association to appear here this morning and
testify and to identify certain documents. And I also wish to state that,
in conjunction with the initial phases of the investigation which the
committee conducted pursuant to the request the association made, we
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 75
asked several members of the profession to attend what we considered
to be Communist-dominated meetings, which they have done, and today
and tomorrow we will receive some of the testimony along those lines.
"The present president of the Los Angeles County Medical Associa-
tion, Dr. J. Phillip Sampson, one of the gentlemen who signed the letter
requesting this hearing, is present and I would like to ask him to come
forward at this time.
TESTIMONY OF J. PHILLIP SAMPSON, M.D.
"Chairman Burns: Will you state your full name and address,
please ?
1 ' The Witness : My name is John Phillip Sampson ; I am a physician
and surgeon, M.D. ; my office address is 2200 Santa Monica Boulevard;
my home address is 1961 Mandeville Canyon, West Los Angeles.
"Question (By Mr. Combs) : Doctor Sampson, I hand you what
purports to be a copy of a resolution adopted by the Los Angeles
County Medical Association and which bears the date June 1, 1953,
and ask you if you will kindly identify this for me if you can.
"Answer: Yes. This is a resolution that was passed by the Los An-
geles County Medical Association.
" Q. On the date that it bears 1
"A. On the date that it bears.
"Q. Would you mind reading it into the record, please?
"A. Yes, sir.
" 'Resolution. Whereas, The principles of medical ethics of the
American Medical Association contain the following guiding principles
for its members, which become a vital prerequisite to original member-
ship and continued membership in the American Medical Association
and the Los Angeles County Medical Association:
" '1. * * * Conducting himself with propriety in his profession and
in all the actions of his life.
" '2. Every physician should aid in safeguarding the profession
against admission to it of those who are deficient in moral charac-
ter * * *
" '3. A physician should expose without fear or favor incompetent
or corrupt, dishonest or unethical conduct on the part of members of
the profession.
" '4. They should bear their part in enforcing the laws of the com-
munity and in sustaining the institutions that advance the interests
of humanity ; and
" 'Whereas, Membership in the Communist Party precludes a free
exercise of these principles and in fact is diametrically opposed to any
of them ; therefore be it
76 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
" l Resolved, That it is the expressed view of the Council of the Los
Angeles County Medical Association that any member of the Communist
Party cannot act in a manner to accord with the letter or the spirit of
the principles of medical ethics of the American Medical Association
and that membership in the Communist Party is incompatible with
membership in the Los Angeles County Medical Association; and be
it further
" 'Resolved, That this resolution shall not be applicable to any indi-
vidual who has unequivocally demonstrated a total severance with the
Communist Party and its objectives.'
"It is dated June 1, 1953. That was adopted by unanimous vote and
is in effect at the present time.
"Mr. Combs: I would like to introduce this document as Exhibit
No. 1.
"Chairman Burns: It will be admitted as Committee Exhibit No. 1.
"Q. (By Mr. Combs) : Dr. Sampson, you are the duly elected,
qualified and acting president of the Los Angeles County Medical
Association, are you not ?
"A. I am.
"Q. And you will continue to hold that office until the latter part
of this month?
"A. Until January 1st.
"Q. And then you will be succeeded by whom?
"A. Dr. Ewing Turner.
"Q. Who is present?
"A. He is present.
"Q. Dr. Sampson, as president, you are familiar with the requests
to this committee to conduct an investigation?
"A. I am familiar with the requests made.
"Q. I hand you two letters, one dated December 12, 1953, and the
other dated January 13, 1954, and ask you if you will identify those
for me, please ?
"A. The first one, that was written on December 12, 1953, was writ-
ten to R. E. Combs, Chief Counsel, California Senate Committee on
Un-American Activities, 415 West Race Street, Visalia, California, and
it was signed by Paul D. Foster, M.D., President, Verne C. Crowl,
M.D., Vice President, and Ewing L. Turner, M.D., Secretary-Treas-
urer. Do you wish me to read the letter ?
" Q. If you will, please.
"A. 'Dear Mr. Combs: Recognizing the deep responsibility of the
medical profession in fields vitally important to the national welfare,
such as civilian defense, atomic research, and other equally important
phases of this subject, the Los Angeles County Medical Association
respectfully requests the assistance of the California Senate Committee
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 77
on Uii-American Activities. This association would appreciate an in-
vestigation by your committee to determine the extent of infiltration
into the ranks of the profession by persons whose loyalty toward the
United States is questionable.
" 'We offer our full cooperation in this project, and you may be
sure that we will assist you in every possible way should this request
be granted.
" 'Signed for the Los Angeles County Medical Association by the
Executive Committee. ' And it is signed by the executives whose names
I have read.
"Q. The second letter, which is a repetition of the first, was dated
in 1954 because new officers had taken office?
"A. That is right.
"Q. And that was addressed to whom?
"A. That was addressed to Senator Hugh M. Burns, California State
Senate, Equitable Building, Fresno, California.
"Q. And is a repetition of the other letter?
"A. And is a repetition of the previous letter. It was sent by Mr.
K. C. Young, who is the secretary of our organization, at my request
and at the request of Dr. Turner and of Dr. Clair Cosgrove, who has
since passed away and who was vice president at that time.
"Mr. Combs: I ask that these letters be introduced into evidence as
Exhibits 2 and 3.
' ' Chairman Burns : They will be admitted.
"Q. (By Mr. Combs) : Dr. Sampson, the Office of the Los Angeles
County Medical Association is located at 1925 Wilshire Boulevard, is
that correct?
"A. At 1925.
"Q. Going back to the inception of the concern, which was expressed
by you and other members of the medical profession concerning the
infiltration of that profession by suspected members of the Communist
Party, would you mind giving us in your own way, and as a broad
background, the nature of the inception of your concern ? That is, what
I mean by that is whether or not you discussed with other members of
your profession the things which gave impetus to your concern and
which ultimately led up to the writing of the letters last referred to?
"A. The medical profession has been increasingly aware of the fact
that there are Communists in the United States both from the press
and from the various reports of the various committees that have been
meeting all over, Senate committees and the House of Representatives
committees that have been holding investigations. And it has been
stated at one time and another among groups of us that the Communist
Party was becoming particularly active in southern California, and
that, while all professions were targets for their endeavors, the medical
78 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
profession was the leading one. It was our wish to clean our skirts com-
pletely and to be sure that there were no Communists in our group
and, if there were Communists in our group, to expose them so that all
might know who they were. We wanted to be as good Americans as we
could and for this reason we requested Senator Burns to conduct this
research into our organization.
"Q. Is it your conviction that the Communist Party has used the
technique in placing its members in the medical profession by employ-
ing so-called front organizations that are Communist-dominated actu-
ally but pose as progressive or liberal or non-Communist organizations ?
"A. That has come to my attention. It goes a little deeper than that.
They organize in a little community of small area, get a few doctors
together, and then say, 'we've got to do something to help these poor
people here. ' It is put entirely on that kind of a basis. And then, finally,
after they select the men that they wish to work on, then it goes more
deeply than that.
"Q. Are you familiar in a general way with a slate of members of
your profession that endeavor to gain political control of the organ-
ization ?
"A. Yes, I am.
' ' Q. Do you remember that board ?
"A. I do remember that board.
"Q. It was two years ago, wasn't it?
"A. It was three years ago.
"Q. And are you acquainted in general terms with the situation at
Cedars of Lebanon Hospital which resulted in the discharge of three
members of the medical profession in Los Angeles County who had
refused to answer questions put to them by the House Committee on
Un-American Activities ?
"A. I remember that; yes.
' ' Q. Are you familiar in a general way, Dr. Sampson, with the propa-
ganda and pressure that was whipped up in behalf of those three
gentlemen ?
"A. I am.
"Q. "Were they or any of them members of the Los Angeles County
Medical Association?
"A. Yes, they were members of our organization.
"Q. And did that also give you concern as to others who might be
in a similar situation?
"A. It gave us grave concern ; that is correct.
"Q. You are familiar with the hearing conducted by the House Com-
mittee on Un-American Activities in October, 1952, generally?
"A. Yes.
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 79
"Q. And have you paid any attention to the number of witnesses
who were doctors in Los Angeles County who, when asked whether or
not they were members of the Communist Party invoked the Fifth
Amendment ?
A. I remember there were a number of them.
Actually, there were 16. If I read their names to you, do you
think you could identify them ?
A. I think I could identify the majority of them.
Q. Alexander Pennes?
A. Yes.
Q. Joseph Hittelman?
A. Yes.
Q. Simson Marcus ?
A. Yes.
Q. Morris R. Feder ?
A. Yes.
Q. Harold Koppelman 1
A. Yes.
Q. Jack Nedelman?
A. That is correct. I know him.
Q. Milton Lester ?
;A. Yes.
Samuel J. Sperling?
Yes.
Walter Kempler ?
:A. Yes.
Q. Jacob S. Bruckman?
A. I don 't know him.
: Q. Thomas L. Perry, Jr. ?
A. Yes.
Q. Gordon Rosenbloom?
A. Yes.
Q. Benjamin M. Lieberman?
A. Yes.
: Q. Frederick G. Reynolds ?
;A. Yes.
; Q. Bertram L. Roberts ?
A. Yes.
Q. Oscar Elkins?
A. No ; I don 't know him.
Q. Oner B. Barker, Jr. ?
A. Yes.
80 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
" Q. Do you know whether Dr. Thomas L. Perry had anything to do
with an organization commonly known as AIMS, which is the associa-
tion of internes and medical students ?
"A. There was some discussion of that which is back in my memory.
"Q. You made no effort to make any detailed investigation of it?
"A. No.
"Q. Did you hear me read the statement made by William Z. Foster,
head of the Communist Party of the United States, in connection with
the importance to the party of placing members in the medical pro-
fession ?
' ' A. I heard you make that statement.
1 ' Q. Would it, in your opinion, add to the ability of the Communist
Party to attract additional material for eventual recruiting into the
party by placing on the directorate of an apparently non- Communist
organization men who have the prestige and the standing in their com-
munity of members of the medical profession ?
' ' A. Oh, definitely ; there is no question about that ; and their propa-
ganda for the party is quite obvious ; also, the intimate relationship of
the doctor with the family and with people in general.
' ' Q. For example, if a member of the Communist Party were straying
from the paths of Americanism and rectitude, his evaluation by a fel-
low scientist would be of value to the party ?
' ' A. That is correct.
" Q. Are you aware of the fact that the relationship of attorney and
client, which, of course, is protected by law, of priest and penitent and
of physician and patient, affords a rather unique medium for the pres-
ervation of secrecy in the conduct of Communist Party propaganda?
"A. Yes; very much so. Is that called a privileged communication?
"Q. That is a privilege that exists between those three groups.
' ' A. I might state I think the most important thing that you said in
this Foster excerpt that you read was that we do not need to wait for
the revolution to have doctors change their attitude. I wish to empha-
size that.
"Q. And you also remember that he said that great mass infiltration
was not the thing, expressing the desire for quality rather than
quantity ?
"A. Yes.
"Q. And the committee has pointed out that it has found no mass
infiltration on the university level or in the educational field but, obvi-
ously, a workman who erects a building designed to smash the atom,
if he may be a member of the Communist Party, is relatively unimpor-
tant, but the man who operates the mechanism itself that produces the
atom is of enormous importance.
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 81
"A. Yes.
"Q. Now, Dr. Sampson, did you, yourself, ever attend any meetings
of so-called front organizations ?
''A. Not to my knowledge.
" Q. You know that other members of your profession have ?
' ' A. They have told me they have.
"Q. And have you discussed with them their views and the things
they observed at these meetings ?
"A. Yes, I have.
' ' Q. And that was done during your tenure as president ?
"A. It was during my tenure as president, yes, sir.
' ' Q. Mr. Combs : I think that is all.
"Q. (By Senator McCarthy) : Doctor, can you tell me the names of
some of these organizations that some of your associates have attended ?
"A. I don 't remember the names of them but they told me that they
had been to meetings and that they were names that were listed, and
that is as far as I can tell you. I wish to make one statement if I may,
that the Los Angeles County Medical Association and I as president
wish to do everything in our power to help you in this investigation.
"Mr. Combs: And I wish to point out that you certainly have. May
Dr. Sampson be excused?
"Chairman Burns: Yes.
' ' Mr. Combs : Dr. Ewing Turner, please.
TESTIMONY OF DR. EWING TURNER, M.D.
' ' Chairman Burns : "Will you give your name and address ?
"The Witness: My name is Ewing L. Turner, M.D., business address,
1930 Wilshire Boulevard. Home address, 5700 Hill Oak Drive.
"Q. (By Mr. Combs) : Dr. Turner, you are the president-elect of the
Los Angeles County Medical Association, are you not?
' ' A. That is correct.
"Q. And you will assume office on the first of January, 1955?
"A. Correct.
"Q. And prior to your election as president you served two consecu-
tive terms as secretary-treasurer ?
"A. That is right, secretary-treasurer.
"Q. Did the association ever publish a bulletin of any kind?
"A. Yes, we have a bulletin that is published every two weeks.
"Q. And that goes to all members of the association, does it?
"A. Right.
"Q. Did you ever have any official connection with that publication?
"A. Yes, I have been editor for the past two years.
82 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
"Q. You were present and heard the testimony of the witness who
preceded you, Dr. Sampson?
"A. Yes, sir.
"Q. If I were to ask you the same questions concerning the general
background of the matters that led to the writing of the letters request-
ing this investigation and hearing, would your answers be substantially
the same?
"A. Yes.
"Q. Did you, yourself, Dr. Turner, ever attend any meetings of any
so-called Communist front organizations?
"A. No; I have not.
"Q. Are you familiar with the incident at the Cedars of Lebanon
Hospital which resulted in the discharge of the three doctors?
"A. Yes, I recall that.
"Q. And you are familiar with the hearings held here by the House
Committee involving 16 doctors whose names I read into the record?
"A. Yes, sir.
"Q. Dr. Turner, would you mind giving the committee the benefit
of your own views concerning the problem and the reasons for your
concern and your attitude as president-elect of the association about
the situation?
"A. I would like to say, first, that I am quite sure that the majority
of our membership of 6,200 doctors are very patriotic good American
citizens and I am also quite sure that there is no mass infiltration of
our profession nor will there be if we have anything to do about it;
and I am also just as sure that there are probably a few, perhaps a
handful, perhaps a dozen, who come within the category heretofore
mentioned. We have no idea of the exact number. But the thing that
concerns me is not with the number that we have but with the fact that
these men are doctors of medicine and that they do have a tremendous
influence not only among their own confreres but with the public
because of the intimate contact all physicians have with patients. Those
are the things that are bothering me. In addition, I might say that,
having been secretary for two years, I think all of you gentlemen on
the committee know the secretary of any organization is the man who
hears all the laudatory comments about the organization and he is also
the fellow who gets all the complaints. If there is any criticism about
anything it is the secretary of an organization who usually hears about
it. And during my tenure of office for two terms as secretary I have
had numerous telephone calls about this particular problem from
people who were worried about this doctor or that doctor or this group
or that group. Those are the things that first brought this to my mind
some two years ago. In addition, we had a little difficulty in the organi-
zation one time when we passed this resolution that was read a little
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 83
earlier, stating that it was unethical for a physician to be associated
with one of these subversive groups. There was lots of criticism that
came to me as secretary from various people in the association about
that. At another time we attempted to change our by-laws. That was
about a year ago. In our by-law change we incorporated the prerequi-
site for membership of the signing of a loyalty oath, which many organi-
zations have throughout the county and which none of us take excep-
tion to and which none of us have any compunction about signing, but
there were letters published by a certain group objecting rather stren-
uously to a number of the changes in the by-laws. And among those
changes the one thing that seemed to get the biggest comment was the
signing of the loyalty oath as a prerequisite for membership in the Los
Angeles County Medical Association. That rather startled some of us
in the official family of the association because I can assure you gentle-
men that in our board of trustees, consisting of seven very able, very
patriotic gentlemen, and our council, consisting of 41 good and true
doctors, there is not one single man that has any of these feelings of
subversion or questionable loyalty. It is because of this background
that the thing seemed to me to be important and that is the reason that
I was happy to be a signator.
"Q. May I interrupt you? (At this point Dr. J. Philip Sampson,
the previous witness, rose from the audience and was about to leave
the room.) Dr. Sampson, are you now or have you ever been a member
of the Communist Party?
"A. Dr. Sampson: Hell, no.
"Q. Do you have any feeling of resentment by being asked to declare
yourself in that respect ?
"A. Dr. Sampson: No, sir. The only resentment I have is that it is
necessary for you to ask that question.
"Q. Will you continue, Dr. Turner.
"A. (By Dr. Turner) : I was just saying I was very happy to be a
signator to the request to you, Senator Burns, for the committee to
come and help us find this handful of men who are of questionable
loyalty, and we are very happy, as Dr. Sampson has just said, to give
you every cooperation in this effort.
"Q. Which you certainly have, as I said before. I think that is all.
Well, one other question. Are you familiar in a general way with the
Association of Internes and Medical Students?
"A. I don't know very much about it other than just a few things
that I heard.
"Q. I show you a booklet entitled For Immediate Release. Leftist
Minority Woos Future Doctors. A Behind-the-Scenes Look at the As-
sociation of Internes and Medical Students, and ask you if you have
84 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
seen that before or are familiar with its contents or have read it or any
part of it.
"A. I read this when it was printed.
' ' Q. Did it have a rather wide circulation among the members of the
medical profession in this part of the country?
"A. Very wide.
"Q. It is in the nature of an expose of the Communist control of
this particular organization, isn't it?
"A. Correct.
' ' Q. In your view was that a salutary thing to do so that the organ-
ization could be shown for what it was?
"A. Yes, certainly.
"Q. I believe that is all except for the other question. Are you now
or have you ever been a member of the Communist Party or of the
Communist Political Association?
"A. I am not, have never been and will not be.
"Q. (By Senator Thompson) : Doctor, was there any open opposi-
tion to the resolution which was heretofore mentioned?
"A. Open opposition in that letters were circulated and a lot of
talking was done by members who didn't want the resolution adopted.
"Q. That is, particularly on the loyalty oath?
"A. Yes, sir.
"Q. Did you keep any written record of those who were in opposi-
tion to that?
"A. One letter that was sent out in October of last year had some
50 signatures on it. These signators were not complaining about any
one item in the by-law changes but they were complaining about a
number of things which they thought were not quite the way they
should be. But, as I also mentioned, one of the longest paragraphs in
their opposition to the by-law changes concerned this particular phase
of it.
"Q. Do you believe that was brought about by certain individuals
in a small group within your organization?
"A. I would certainly feel so, although I would hasten to add that
I don't know and I certainly would be the last man to suggest that the
50 signators were all members of a subversive group.
"Q. Do you believe that all organizations, such as this, whether it
be a professional organization or not, should take a loyalty oath ?
"A. Yes, I do.
"Q. Do you believe members of county committees should take a
loyalty oath?
"A. I certainly do.
"Senator Thompson: Thank you.
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 85
"Mr. Combs: That is all. Thank you very much, Dr. Turner.
"Dr. Alesen, please.
TESTIMONY OF DR. LEWIS ALBERT ALESEN, M.D.
' ' Chairman Burns : Will you state your full name and address ?
"The Witness: Lewis A. Alesen. I practice at 1401 South Hope
Street and I live at 124 South Las Palmas Avenue, Los Angeles.
"Q. (By Mr. Combs) : Dr. Alesen, have you ever held any official
position in the California State Medical Association or Society?
"A. Yes, sir, I was its president in the year 1952-1953.
"Q. That comprised the entire State of California?
"A. Yes, sir.
"Q. Did you ever hold any official position in the Los Angeles
County Medical Association?
"A. I have, sir. In 1933-1934 I was a counsellor representing the
Physicians and Surgeons Club and I was a counsellor in the old Dis-
trict No. 1 from 1937 to 1941 and in 1943 I was secretary-treasurer
and in 1944 I was president of the Los Angeles County Medical As-
sociation.
"Q. Have you ever been a member of the Communist Party or the
Communist Political Association?
"A. No, sir.
"Q. And are not affiliated with any of those organizations?
"A. No, sir.
"Q. Dr. Alesen, it is my understanding and correct me if I am in
error, that you have devoted a considerable part of your time to re-
search in sociological affairs and economics in general and that you
have also devoted considerable of your time and talent to making pub-
lic addresses to medical bodies and other groups, is that correct?
"A. I have. That is correct.
"Q. Have you ever addressed any of those groups on the general
subject of Communism?
"A. I have in a very general way, yes, sir.
"Q. And you are, of course, well equipped with a basic understand-
ing of Americanism doctrines and the effort of the Communist organiza-
tion in this country to place its members in the most strategical and
desirable positions from their standpoint?
"A. I have attempted to equip myself.
"Q. Have you had concern about the incidence of Communist in-
filtration in the medical profession in this part of the State?
"A. Very much so.
"Q. And since when did that concern manifest itself?
86 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
"A. All during my tour of duty as secretary-treasurer and later as
president of the Los Angeles County Medical Association I, of course,
from time to time kept hearing recurring stories and rumors about
some infiltration but I believe the most significant manifestation was
probably in the year 1949 when there was a specific attempt on the
part of some of our physician members to participate actively in the
election of counsellors in that fall term.
"Q. As counsellors of the Los Angeles County Medical Association?
"A. Yes, sir.
"Q. In looking over the people behind that effort did any of the
names have any particular significance to you?
"A. They did. While I couldn't identify the names of those indi-
viduals as members of the Communist Party I did recognize them as
what might be called 'liberal' in the accepted term.
" Q. So that in your view at least there was a concerted effort by that
particular group to gain political control of the association?
"A. There was.
"Q. With what success did that effort meet?
"A. As I recall a poll from 18 to 20 percent of the total number of
votes cast.
"Q. Was it a rather solid group of 'progressive' or 'liberal' mem-
bers of your profession that were engaged in this attempt ?
"A. To the best of my knowledge that is so.
' ' Q. Did you later come into possession of any facts that accelerated
that concern ? Were you familiar for example with the expulsion of the
three doctors from the Cedars of Lebanon Hospital?
"A. I was.
"Q. Did you have a general feeling as to their reputation, as to
whether or not they were radical or conservative or affiliated with
Communist front organizations or whether they might be suspected
party members?
"A. I did.
"Q. And what was that feeling?
"A. That they most certainly were very radical in their general
concepts and in their public expressions.
"Q. Who were they?
"A. Dr. Murray Abowitz and a Dr. Lippman and a Dr. Pennes.
Please note I am not testifying that these individuals were, are or ever
have been members of the Communist Party.
"Q. That is clearly understood. Did you, yourself, ever attend any
meetings of so-called front organizations?
"A. Not to my knowledge.
"Q. Are you familiar in any way with an organization known as the
Association of Internes and Medical Students?
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 87
"A. Yes. I have watched that organization through the years devel-
oped however by another student organization. For example, there was
an article in Medical Economics in 1950 entitled 'Leftist Minority Woos
Future Doctors. ' It is a pretty good documentation of this and in this
article are to be found mention of names, dates and places.
"Q. Dr. Alesen, would you mind opening that booklet and going
through it page by page and picture by picture, there are pictures in
it, are there not?
"A. Yes, sir.
"Q. And will you give the committee the benefit of your analysis
of the material. Not all of it but in general.
"A. I think the important fact is a statement here on the first page
'AIMS is the offspring of the 1941 wedlock of the Interne Council of
America and the Association of Medical Students.' Then I think it is
important also that this organization has published or did until re-
cently, a publication called The Interne. Also that from time to time
some members of this organization have participated in student con-
ferences in foreign countries. For example, in 1949 there was the fes-
tival in Budapest. This is recounted on page 5. This was sponsored by
the World Federation of Democratic Youth. At that time Dr. Shep-
pard C. Thierman, an interne at Kings County Hospital, Brooklyn,
who was then AIMS vice president, helped make the arrangements for
American medical students who wished to attend. Apparently the whole
tone of this organization AIMS follows the typical Communist Party
line from start to finish, criticizing of course all conservative viewpoints
as being reactionary, stupid and otherwise unprogressive. I am using
my own language. As you go through this you will find on page 8 'Web
of Affiliations. Among recent officers of the Association of Internes and
Medical Students and among editorial-board members of the associa-
tion's publication The Interne a number have been cited as sponsors of
or participants in the activities of one or more of the following organi-
zations and publications.' These organizations are listed some 18 or 20
in number and it is not necessary to repeat them, but I think they ought
to be read into the record. I do not know what the present status of the
organization is. I haven't followed it recently but it is my impression
that probably it still has some appeal.
"Q. There was a chapter at U. S. C. years ago, was there not?
"A. Yes, sir.
"Mr. Combs: I want to make it clear that it no longer exists at that
institution and was eradicated largely by the university itself. I would
like to have this introduced in evidence and I think in consonance with
Dr. Alesen 's suggestion, the names of the organizations he mentioned
should be read into the record because they are names that have ap-
peared in reports of this committee during its entire existence of nearly
88 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
16 years. So I think it would be well to read these. They are as follows.
On page 8 : American Committee for Democracy and Intellectual Free-
dom, American Committee to Save Refugees, American Friends of
Spanish Democracy, Champion which is a publication, Citizens Com-
mittee for Harry Bridges, Civil Bights Congress, which as the com-
mittee knows is the legal arm of the Communist Party and active in
Los Angeles at the present time, Coordinating Committee to Lift the
Embargo, Council for Pan-American Democracy, Friends of the Abra-
ham Lincoln Brigade which was the military arm of the Communist
Party that fought in the Spanish revolution, International Union of
Students, Jefferson School of Social Science which is comparable to the
California Labor School in California, Joint Anti-Fascist Refugee
Committee, League of American Writers which the committee investi-
gated in 1943, National Committee to Win the Peace, National Council
of American-Soviet Friendship, National Federation for Constitutional
Liberties, New Masses which is a publication, North American Commit-
tee to Aid Spanish Democracy, Reichstag Fire Trial Anniversary Com-
mittee, School for Democracy, Science and Society, Spanish Refugee
Relief Campaign, and World Federation of Democratic Youth, which
you mentioned, Dr. Alesen, in connection with one of the photographs
showing an officer of AIMS, Sheppard C. Thierman, marching and
immediately behind him is a large picture of Stalin, isn't it?
' ' A. Yes, sir.
"Q. Marching in the Communist-sponsored World Youth and Stu-
dent Festival held last summer in Budapest, Hungary. Did you know
anything, Dr. Alesen, about the activities of AIMS in California ?
1 ' A. No. I really did not except on hearsay and that was very vague.
' ' Q. You had heard there was a chapter at U. S. C. ?
"A. Yes.
"Q. You don't know whether there was one at U. C. L. A. at any
time, do you ?
" A. I never heard of there being one.
"Mr. Combs: I ask that this be received in evidence as the exhibit
next in order, I think Exhibit No. 4.
"Q. I hand you a photostatic document. I frankly don't know
whether you can identify this or not because I have never asked you
at any time about it, it is called Progressive Notes. I ask you if you have
ever seen that or the original of it before ?
' ' A. I have seen a copy of this but not the original. I could not iden-
tify it, Mr. Combs.
"Q. Dr. Alesen, you have read the Communist Manifesto, have you not?
"A. Yes.
* ' Q. Would you mind describing for the benefit of the committee and
its records the basic objective of the Communist Party? I mean not
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 89
from an ideological standpoint, but from the standpoint of endeavoring
to place its members in professions like the medical profession, the
teaching profession, the legal profession ?
' ' A. May I have a little time for that ?
" Q. You may.
"A. Of course, you recall that Friedrich Engels and Karl Marx wrote
the Manifesto in 1848 and they stated that through the nations of the
world the battle for democracy would take place in different stages and
different manners, depending upon the degree of advancement of the na-
tion in which the revolution was proceeding. They stated also that in the
most intelligently equipped countries the revolution must take a pattern
following upon definite steps. First, there will be an abolition of all
property in land and application of all rents of land to public pur-
poses ; second, by the adoption of a progressive or graduated income tax.
The third was gift and inheritance tax. The fourth step was the con-
fiscation of all property. The fifth was the control of all finance by a
central bank with national capital and a federal charter. The sixth was
the central control of communications and transportation. The seventh
was a gradual increase in the lines of production and distribution
owned by the state and, further, a development of the land and soil in
accordance with the common plan. The next step was the development
of land or agriculture. Step number nine was the gradual abolition
between the characteristics of city and country life, and number ten
was the step of free public education and schools for all children.
" If I had time, I would like to outline a few of the degrees in which
we have adopted their program in America today. I would like your
permission to make a few general statements concerning the philosophy
of Communism. May I present a definition or two ?
"Q. Surely.
"A. Collectivism, by dictionary definition, is a broad general term
indicating the ownership of production and distribution by a group,
that is, by the state, in contravention to private ownership of distri-
bution, which is the characteristic of the materialist system. Collec-
tivism encourages the individual to deny and reject responsibilities
for himself and to transfer that responsibility to the group. So defined,
collectivism includes Naziism, Fascism, Communism, Socialism, State
Socialism, New Dealism, and any and all other forms of paternalism
in which the individual is encouraged to deny and to reject responsi-
bility for himself and transfer that responsibility to the group. So I
think Communism is a violent form of collectivism of revolutionary
form, and we must be very careful lest we adopt a completely totalli-
tarian view by our educational system. A moment ago Mr. Combs read
a statement by Mr. Foster of the Communist Party and he charged the
90 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
medical profession with being reactionary. I wonder if Mr. Foster
knows that all of the primitive societies of man were, in effect, collec-
tivistic in nature and did in fact present a basis practically of char-
acteristics which he so proudly boasts as being fundamental in Com-
munist Russia. The American mound builders were collectivists. "When
Mr. Foster talks about reactionism as a matter of fact he is advocating
a complete advocacy of freedom.
"I would like to take a further moment if I may and introduce a
phase which I think has been neglected which I call a biologic phase
of the subject. If you recall, about eight hundred million years ago
your ancestors and mine were pleasuring around in a single-celled
amoeba and during the past eight hundred million years nature has
done a good job and the process still continues in spite of man's efforts
to stop. She has proceeded in three ways: first of all, individual pre-
eminence. Second, individual responsibility. Nature insists upon indi-
vidual reward, there is no exception to that in the animal societies.
Either she insists upon a very rigid restriction of the uses of the amoeba
or she uses the amoeba to act as a policeman to protect the individual
from the group or against his fellows. You will find this of course, that
the whole collectivist thesis is fundamentally wrong because it pre-
sumes that the individual is unable to do anything for himself and the
state is glorified and the individual is held in scorn.
"Q. Dr. Alesen, you have pointed out and I think certainly very
eloquently, the close relationship between Communism as a most violent
form of collective organization and certain other forms that are a bit
more gentle in their approach. In your opinion and based of course on
your reading and analysis of the problem, do you believe that the
Communist Party would adopt some other forms of collectivism as a
temporary expedient in ultimately gaining its complete objective ?
"A. I am sure that, as witness their point seven which provides
for a gradual increase in the control of the means of production and
distribution by the state and the development of the soil according to
a specific program. According to Mr. Willis Stone we now have in
America 88 federal corporations, some 2,500 bureaus, about 10 inter-
national cartels, all doing business in competition with the private
American citizen. Mr. Stone estimates if we could reach these enter-
prises and denationalize them, we could save the taxpayer at least half
the federal budget.
"Q. If it were possible to organize all of the doctors in the United
States into one single group it wouldn't be necessary to recruit all
members of the party; then the concentrated party could be focused
on a little handful that ruled the organization from the top. Isn't that
correct ?
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 91
"A. That is correct. But if there be such entities as rulers from the
top, those individuals who are selected to hold the offices are usually
pretty solid citizens and I am not casting any bouquets at myself, and
they are pretty good Americans.
"Q. Are you aware of any so-called front organizations by name in
Los Angeles County through which in your opinion the Communists
have been or are now operating?
"A. Yes.
"Q. Did you ever hear of the medical division of the Arts, Sciences
and Prof essions Council?
"A. Yes, sir.
"Q. Would that be one of them?
"A. It would.
"Q. Did you ever hear of an organization known as the Civil Rights
Congress ?
"A. I have.
"Q. Would that be one of them?
"A. It would.
"Q. Did you ever hear of the International Workers Order ?
"A. I have.
"Q. Would that be one of them?
"A. It would.
"Q. Can you name any other?
"A. Offhand, I can't.
"Mr. Combs: I think that is all.
"Q. (By Senator McCarthy) : Dr. Alesen, as president of the State
Medical Society have you found that this situation exists in other places
in California?
"A. I can't answer that very well, Senator McCarthy. I have been
very closely connected with the Los Angeles Association. No other
instance has come to my attention.
"Mr. Combs : May Dr. Alesen be excused?
"A. May I make one further statement for the record?
"Q. Yes.
"A. I should like to introduce a statement defining the ideal
economy, and I would like to define the ideal economic state as a con-
dition in which there are available to every individual living within it
the greatest abundance of goods and services at prices the individual
can afford to pay and in an environment in which he is stimulated to
produce to his utmost to distribute and exchange particularly the
products of his brain and to accumulate for his own independence.
"Mr. Combs: Thank you very much, doctor.
92 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
TESTIMONY OF DR. JOSEPH MANUEL de los REYES, M.D.
"Q. (By Mr. Combs) : Will you state your full name, please Dr.
Reyes, and your address ?
"A. Joseph Manuel de los Reyes. My office address is 2010 Wilshire
Boulevard. I am a doctor of medicine. My home address is 1405 East
Mountain Street in Glendale, California.
"Q. Doctor, is it customary to address you as Dr. Reyes, or de los
Reyes ?
"A. The real name is de los Reyes, but I have been called all kinds
of names.
"Q. Dr. de los Reyes, have you held any positions in the Los Angeles
County Medical Association?
"A. I have, sir.
"Q. And what are those positions?
"A. Since 1945, a member of the Council of the Los Angeles County
Medical Association. In 1954, vice president of the Los Angeles
County Medical Association. In other words, I am vice president now.
My term of office will expire January 1st.
"Q. Have you had anything to do with the public relations depart-
ment of the association?
"A. Yes, sir. I have been chairman of the public relations depart-
ment committee of the Los Angeles County Medical Association.
"Q. During what years?
"A. That was 1947 and 1948, if I remember correctly.
"Q. During the time that the House Committee on Un-American
Activities held its meetings in Los Angeles, was there some effort to
propagandize against those hearings on the part of some of those who
were called before the committee?
"A. There was.
"Q. And did the medical association through you take any steps to
counteract that propaganda?
"A. I made a public statement that the Los Angeles County Medical
Association would welcome any investigation of its members regarding
their patriotism and whether they belonged to any subversive organiza-
tions.
"Q. Dr. de los Reyes, you yourself have had considerable practical
experience in the counter-Communist cause and you have had experi-
ence not only here but in Cuba, I understand, in combatting Communist
infiltration and, in addition, you attended, did you not, one or more
meetings in Los Angeles of alleged front organizations?
"A. That is right, sir.
"Q. Would you mind describing for us, please, your experiences in
Cuba so far as Communism is concerned.
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 93
"A. If I won't bore the committee, when I graduated from Jeffer-
son Medical College in Philadelphia I went down to Cuba. At that
time, of course, Cuba was in the midst of a depression. Although we
didn't suffer the depression here until 1929, the depression really-
started in Latin America in 1923. At that time there was an effort
made to indoctrinate the students at the National University by creat-
ing riots and revolution. It was thought, and justly so, that it was
more or less an effort on the part of the Socialist movement down
there. Later on, infiltration of the school there took place and the
medical profession found itself in the precarious position of having
the Legislature of Cuba pass laws that would have been inimical to
the welfare of the people of Cuba and also the medical profession. Due
to the fact that the doctors there would have been socialized and that
their payments for their services, etc., would be subjected to a paternal
form of government, the Medical Association of Cuba threatened to
call a strike. In other words, threatened to use the same methods
that are so common to the Socialists and Communists and the govern-
ment still persisted in socializing the medical profession of Cuba. We
went on strike. I was practicing medicine there and for 48 hours we
refused to do any of our usual work or sign any death certificates
except we saw everybody that needed medical attention whether emer-
gency or otherwise. The flood of telegrams and letters and the howls
of the people of Cuba were such that they forgot anything about laws
and the individual dignity of the Cuban people, not only in the medical
profession but the rest of the population, was saved, I believe, by the
drastic action taken by the medical profession of Cuba. I was part
and parcel of it and I was proud that I did so. I had been rather
interested in some of the teachings and some of the propaganda
that had been going in Latin America because down there it started
earlier than it started in the United States, at least it was more open.
And I read quite a bit about what Karl Marx had to say and I came
upon one of his utterances which stated the keystone of the arch of
the socialistic state is the socialization of medicine. You have heard
the other doctors here, you Senators, and what they said pertaining
to the infiltration and the socialization of medicine. Lenin taught it;
Stalin taught it ; and it has been epitomized by the Communists through-
out the world, the fact that if they gain control of the medical pro-
fession in any nation, they have taken a tremendous step toward the
totalitarian form of government of that country.
I was in Guatemala in 1931 and saw what they were doing there.
Gentlemen, you have to remember that in those countries not like the
United States we have no middle class. There is the poor peon and the
person that has something and you cannot by a process of revolution
94 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
change the peon into an educated individual any more than you can go
ahead and change the educated individual into a peon. They at that time
were propagandizing the people there and some of our so-called leaders
in this country and even the wife of the President of the United States
came down there to a political meeting in Mexico and tried in a
subtle manner to pull for the election of a gentleman that rightfully
or wrongfully had the stigma of being a Socialist in Mexico. While
I was in Guatemala and while I was in Honduras I saw what they
were trying to do to those people down there. This thing that hap-
pened in Guatemala wasn't just a conspiracy of the moment. This
thing had roots years and years ago, especially when we in the United
States were foolish enough to recognize Russia, the worst atheistic,
criminal dictatorship the world has ever seen. My father went to
school in this country but I was born in Cuba. I became an American
citizen by choice because I considered it the greatest and finest country
in the world. But I began to see the American people were indolent
and didn't realize the danger, and still there are many that do not,
and it is necessary for us in the professions, some of us that perhaps
take interest in community life, to try and explain things to the people
of the United States. In 1934, I started practicing in Los Angeles.
In 1936, I was approached to join in the war in Spain. We started
in 1936 a speaker's bureau in the Los Angeles County Medical Asso-
ciation of which I was one of the founders, and we undertook to
explain to the people what the medical profession meant in the United
States ; what we had in mind when we took the Hippocratic oath. Some
time later when I became chairman of that speaker's bureau, I took it
upon myself and the men that were with me to explain to the people
what socialization of medicine in the United States would mean and
for that we were vilified and our characters were assassinated until
Last year I was called the 'Joe McCarthy' of the medical profession of
Los Angeles and I don't mean, you, Senator. We have in Los Angeles
County a little group that, for some reason or other, believe that we
have to be changed; that the medical profession in the United States
is a trust and they came out with all kinds of propaganda. And it will
be necessary for some of us to take the brunt of the matter and explain
it so that perhaps the people of America will realize what is going on.
We have tried to talk to them about the medical profession, about our
country and what it means. When you find them telling you about
segregation and about discrimination because of race, creed and color,
it makes me laugh. Here I am, a Latin American b}^ birth and I have
found no discrimination anywhere. On the contrary, everywhere I have
been accepted. Sure, I may have some detractors, who has not ? I belong
to 12 different hospitals in the county. I have been on the executive
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 95
board of one of the largest hospitals here. I am vice president of the
Los Angeles County Medical Association. Does that mean that the
medical profession has discriminated ? I have taken care of white and
black and I have never seen that discrimination that the Communist
Party and the front organizations say exists in Los Angeles County.
I have never seen it. Probably there is, we wouldn't be human if there
weren't; however, I haven't seen it. As chairman of a committee of the
Los Angeles County Medical Association it is my duty to talk to men
who apply for membership in the association. My duty is to talk to
them about ethics and organization and what it means to be a member
of the Los Angeles County Medical Association. And, gentlemen, I
always make it a point, when a man is not American born or if he isn't
a white man, to be the first to shake his hand. I am the first one who
comes up and shakes his hand ; then I personally interview the man and
tell him that we welcome him in the Los Angeles County Medical
Association and we welcome him with open arms if he applies for mem-
bership. Maybe I am speaking too long.
" Q. Not at all. Do you have any more to say ?
"A. Go ahead with your questions.
"Q. Dr. de los Keyes, in addition to the things you have mentioned,
which certainly gives you a stature of practical experience in this field,
you became aware of the fact that the Los Angeles County Medical
Association had been selected as a target for infiltration by the Com-
munists, did you not ?
"A. That is right.
' ' Q. About how long ago did you become aware of that fact ?
"A. In 1936, when the doctors were propagandized.
"Q. "When you were asked to join with the group that was fighting
in the Spanish Revolution, was that the Abraham Lincoln Brigade?
"A. That is right.
"Q. Comprised for the most part of Communists who were sent to
Spain to fight in behalf of the Communists?
"A. So I understand.
"Q. Which, of course, you declined?
"A. Very much so.
"Q. Since that time have you taken it upon yourself to actually go
to and attend some of the so-called front meetings in the city of Los
Angeles ?
"A. I have, sir. However, because I was pretty well known and my
utterances were such that I was called a very rabid anti- Communist, I
am sure I was never persona grata in some of the meetings I attended.
"Q. Will you give me the names of the organizations whose meetings
you attended?
96 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
"A. Yes. I attended one of the Arts and Sciences Council meetings.
"Q. The Arts, Sciences and Professions?
"A. Yes, that is what I mean.
"Q. And did you attend one that was held at the Clark Hotel?
"A. I did.
"Q. Was that the Arts, Sciences and Professions meeting you have
mentioned ?
"A. No, that was the Los Angeles Chapter of the National Lawyers
Guild.
"Q. Did you go there alone or with someone else?
' ' A. I went with a doctor.
"Q. That was held in the Clark Hotel on what date?
"A. July 31st, 1951.
"Q. About what time did you enter the place of the meeting?
"A. Sometime about noon — just before noon.
"Q. Was it a luncheon meeting?
"A. It was a luncheon meeting.
"Q. Attended by approximately how many people?
"A. I don 't know exactly the actual number, but I imagine perhaps
35 or 40.
"Q. At that meeting was there any written propaganda material
distributed ?
"A. Yes, sir.
"Q. Do you have some of it with you?
"A. I do. It is a little booklet called Yours for a Genuine Brotherhood.
"Q. Will you turn to the first page, please, Dr. de los Reyes, and you
will see there a list of the sponsors.
"A. That is right.
"Q. Do you recognize any of those people as being present at the
meeting ?
"A. No, but I was told that a reporter from the People's World was
there.
"Q. What was his name?
"A. Donald C. Wheeldon.
"Q. His name appears second from the last in column two of the
list of sponsors, does it not ?
"A. That is right. However, I don't know the gentleman.
"Q. You don't know whether he was there or not but you were told
he was present?
"A. Yes. And he signed this booklet, or at least his name is there.
"Q. Before you had lunch did you present a ticket or did you buy a
ticket for the lunch, or just how did you work that part of it.
"A. This other doctor and I decided that the best way for us not to
be kicked out in case our names were mentioned or we were recognized,
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 97
was to buy the tickets immediately or pay for our luncheon and then
we had a right to stay and eat lunch, and that is what we did, much to
the chagrin of the waiter, who did not want to take our money.
"Q. Prior to the time you sat down to the lunch, were you and the
other doctor who accompanied you seated alone at a table or were there
other people seated at the table with you?
'A. Everybody was milling around and they came over to talk to us.
Q. So you would hear what was being said?
'A. Yes.
Q. And you talked to some of the people?
A. That is correct.
'Q. What was your general impression of the tenor of the meeting
— what kind of a meeting was it?
"A. The tenor of the meeting was exactly what the speakers later
on expounded; it was the same thing you find anywhere you go to
socialistic or Communist meetings and, between you and I, I see very
little difference between Socialists and Communists. They had the little
book I mentioned all ready and spoke about racial discrimination, how
hospitals were not allowing colored individuals to have the same rights
that white people had; that because of the fact that they were of that
race they would have discrimination in these different hospitals; and
after they talked about things like that, then they began to say this
was the time to go ahead and do something. That suits could be brought
against these hospitals ; that the penal code and civil code of the State
of California and also the Federal Government prohibited discrimina-
tion and that they should make test cases of this; that they should go
and put pressure also on the Community Chest and see that these hos-
pitals that allegedly were resorting to discrimination should not re-
ceive any money collected by the Community Chest. That delegations
and individuals and also groups should visit these hospitals, etc., and
so on.
"Q. And that meeting was attended by representatives of the Arts,
Sciences and Professions Council?
"A. And the National Lawyers Guild. There was one man I knew
that belonged to the Arts, Sciences and Professions Council.
"Q. Do you remember his name?
"A. Dr. Thomas Perry.
"Q. And he spoke, did he?
"A. That is right.
"Q. How long did the meeting last, Doctor?
"A. The same as the usual meeting lasts — an hour to an hour and
a half. I also have here a copy of a letter that was sent under the sig-
nature of Dr. Louis Kobinson, D.D.S., Chairman of the Medical Divi-
98 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
sion, Arts, Sciences and Professions Council, 130 South Robertson,
Suite No. 4, Beverly Hills, California. This is called the ' End-Discrim-
ination Committee.' It is also signed by Wilbert Z. Gordon, Executive
Secretary of the Medical Division. This is a letter that was sent to dif-
ferent hospitals and medical groups here in Los Angeles and there was
a questionnaire asking questions about discrimination, segregation, and
so forth.
"Q. That letter was sent by the Arts, Sciences and Professions
Council Medical Division to the various hospitals in Los Angeles for
the purpose of making a survey to determine the extent of racial dis-
crimination ?
"A. That is correct.
"Q. Some of the hospitals, according to the statements in this book-
let, ignored the questionnaire, did they not?
"A. That is correct. At least, so the book says.
"Q. And it lists the hospitals beginning on page 11, you will note,
Doctor, in alphabetical order in the chapter headed "Hospitals"?
"A. That is correct.
"Q. Barlow Sanatorium, California Lutheran Hospital, Cedars of
Lebanon Hospital, Culver City Hospital, Eye and Ear Hospital, Glen-
dale Sanitarium and Hospital — that hospital, incidentally, failed to
respond to the questionnaire; so did the Eye and Ear Hospital and
the Culver City Hospital, and so did the Cedars of Lebanon Hospital
and so did the California Lutheran Hospital — the Barlow Sanatorium
apparently sent the questionnaire back. And the next was the Harbor
General Hospital and they ignored the questionnaire.
"A. That is right.
"Q. The Hollywood Presbyterian Hospital declined to fill out the
questionnaire; the Hospital of the Good Samaritan also ignored the
questionnaire; the Huntington Memorial Hospital took a similar atti-
tude, and the Japanese Hospital of Los Angeles also did.
"A. If I might interject
"Q. Yes.
"A. Here is supposed to be a racial minority. These people are sup-
posed to be working for these poor people, but here is a Japanese Hos-
pital and they refuse to answer because they realized where it came
from.
"Q. Then the Long Beach Hospital took similar action; then the
Los Angeles Children 's Hospital — while the statement is not made cate-
gorically that they did reply, I assume they did. Then the Los Angeles
General Hospital with 3,865 beds replied but said no information could
be given. The Los Angeles Sanatorium at Duarte replied to the ques-
tionnaire. The Methodist Hospital of Southern California declined to
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 99
reply. The Orthopedic Hospital did reply apparently, so did the Physi-
cians and Surgeons Hospital in Glendale. The Queen of the Angels Hos-
pital declined to reply, and so did the Santa Fe Coastline Hospital, and
so did the Santa Monica Hospital and the Seaside Memorial Hospital
in Long Beach, and the St. Johns Hospital at Santa Monica ; St. Josephs
Hospital did reply, so did St. Luke's Hospital, and St. Mary's Long
Beach Hospital replied. St. Vincent's Hospital declined to reply; Tem-
ple Hospital did; White Memorial Hospital did not, nor did some of
the medical groups set forth on page 25 and the medical and dental
schools. The University of Southern California School for Medicine de-
clined to fill out the questionnaire and the University of Southern Cali-
fornia School of Dentistry did supply information. Then the conclu-
sions and proposals of the Arts, Sciences and Professions Council are
set forth on pages 38 and 39 of the pamphlet. Do you intend to submit
your pamphlet in evidence as an exhibit, Doctor ?
"A. Yes, sir, and this letter also.
' ' Mr. Combs : May these be marked exhibits next in order, these two
exhibits ?
• ' Chairman Burns : Yes, Exhibits 5 and 6. This one will be marked
as Exhibit 5 and the questionnaire as Exhibit 6.
"Q. (By Mr. Combs) : Doctor, did you attend any other meetings of
any other organizations that were alleged to be Communist fronts?
"A. I attended one. The other one that I attended was the Science
and Professions.
"Q. When was that meeting held?
"A. Approximately two years ago, I don't remember the date.
"Q. And do you remember where the meeting occurred?
"A. It occurred in that church on Eighth Street.
1 ' Q. The Unitarian ?
"A. That is right.
"Q. Dr. Fritchman's church?
"A. That is correct
"Q. Was he there when you attended?
"A. I didn't see him, I don't know him.
' ' Q. Have you heard of him ?
"A. Yes, quite a bit.
"Q. Will you describe that meeting, please.
* ' A. The meeting, if I remember correctly, was to honor the members
of the medical profession that were colored and again the gist of the
whole thing was similar to what this one was that I attended at the
Clark Hotel; that, although many men of the colored race had been
badly treated due to the fact we have so much discrimination in this
country, that they had been allowed to become prominent because of
the subjugation and the discrimination that has taken place in the
100 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
United States regarding other races and minorities. And so it went on
and on. Dr. Murray Abowitz was the presiding officer.
"Q. He was mentioned this morning as having been expelled from
the Cedars of Lebanon Hospital because of his refusal to answer ques-
tions about his Communist affiliations.
"A. Yes. Dr. Thomas Perry was also in that meeting.
"Q. Did he speak on the second occasion?
"A. He did. I have a few notes here. The thing that he brought out
besides the discrimination, and so forth, and the gist of it was that suits
should be instituted because this was a wonderful opportunity to show
the people what the Negroes and the Mexican- Americans — I don 't know
why he said Mexican- Americans instead of Latin Americans — had to
undergo under the society in which we live. So they threatened court
action to bar tax exemption to hospitals who discriminated, breach of
contract suits, if I understand that correctly. It was that if a patient
came in and was put in a two-bed room, or was changed or didn't
receive the attention they were supposed to receive, they could bring
this to court; that the civil and criminal courts of the State of Cali-
fornia and the Federal Government prohibit racial discrimination and
they should bring suits in courts so that the people in the State of
California and the Nation should know what was going on and, natur-
ally, by implication, if they were the ones that brought this suit, they
were the ones that were the guardians of the freedom and nondiscrimi-
nation of people. The pressure against the Community Chest was that
the Community Chest was to refuse to give any money to any hospital
that practiced any discrimination; that individual and group delega-
tions should go to the hospitals and protest; that the members of the
staffs of those hospitals should be contacted and the opinions of the
men or women that were contacted should be made known to them so
that they could bring pressure on the staffs of those hospitals ; that they
should play up this discrimination in every possible way through public
meetings and letters, to keep the public informed of what was going
on so that the people would be aroused and the people would take ap-
propriate measures to end such actions on the part of the hospitals
of Los Angeles County.
"Q. Dr. de los Reyes, did you make any determination as to the
character of the first meeting you attended — basically, what kind of an
organization did you conclude it was ?
"A. Well, after seeing the tone of their conversation and the utter-
ances of the speakers and having seen the same thing in the tropics, and
other things I have attended here similar to that and after seeing what
has happened in the foreign relations of this country when we sent the
so-called brain boys down to Latin America to try to socialize them, I
came to the conclusion they were inimical to the welfare of this Nation,
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 101
and that they were, if not part and parcel of, at least were the willing
tools of that criminal conspiracy, atheistic in nature, known as the
Communist Party.
"Q. And that is true of each of the organizations you have attended,
or each of the meetings, is it ?
"A. That is right.
"Q. Dr. de los Reyes, I want to ask you now the same questions
I have asked the other witnesses. Are you now or have you ever been a
member of the Communist Party?
"A. No, sir.
■ ' Mr. Combs : Thank you, that is all.
"Q. (By Chairman Burns) : Doctor, are colored physicians admitted
to the staffs of the various Los Angeles hospitals?
"A. I can say this, that in the California Lutheran Hospital where
I do most of my work, I know at least one colored doctor who is there.
Dr. King and Dr. Robinson are two colored doctors. I never heard
anybody, at least not in my presence during the three years I was a
member of the executive committee of that hospital, cast any aspersions
on either one of those doctors or say anything pertaining to their color.
"Q. And the same policy was followed as to admittance of the
patients, was it ?
"A. That is right. I have had colored patients at the California
Hospital and we have colored nurses and student nurses at that hos-
pital.
"Q. Are nonwhite physicians admitted to membership in the Los
Angeles County Medical Association?
"A. Yes, sir. I mentioned a few minutes ago that whenever we have
a meeting and when they come in I as chairman make it a point to
welcome them as chairman of the committee into the membership of the
Los Angeles County Medical Association. As a matter of fact, one of the
doctors here, Dr. Alsberge, was the first man to propose that we should
have one colored gentleman because of the fact for some particular
reason that these doctors of Latin American extraction and some of the
colored doctors perhaps might feel that they were not welcome and that
we would have difficulty in trying to get them to join us and attend our
meetings, but we elected overwhelmingly and unanimously a member of
the colored race to the House of Delegates of the California Medical
Association, which is the ruling body of the state medical association.
"Q. (By Senator Thompson) : Doctor, is there any discrimination
whatsoever because of race, color or creed in the Los Angeles County
Medical Association?
"A. No, sir, and I am a living example of that. I belong to the con-
sulting surgical staffs here of hospitals that are predominantly Jewish
102 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
and hospitals that are Protestant and Catholic. On the contrary, every-
where I have gone the hand of friendship has been extended to me.
"Q. Doctor, can you tell me what percentage of physicians and
surgeons belong to the Los Angeles County Medical Association?
"A. We have 6,200 members. I understand there are about 2,000
other M.D. 's in the county that do not belong to the Los Angeles
County Medical Association.
"Q. Is there any reason why they don't belong?
"A. I spoke twice, as the Chairman of the Speakers Bureau of the
Los Angeles County Medical Association, to groups of colored doctors
here in the city and I propounded that question, and some of them
were frank to say that they thought the white doctors would discrim-
inate, and I made it a point to tell them, if they would send in their
applications I would be the first one to shake their hands when they
entered. I spoke to the auxiliary of the colored groups, which is com-
posed of the wives of the colored doctors, and I welcomed them. And
I spoke to the president of the Women's Auxiliary of the Los Angeles
County Medical Association and told them to extend an invitation to
these girls to come in and join, and many of them have.
"Q. Doctor, are you saying that the greater percentage of the
people that do not belong to the association are of different color?
"A. No, sir. We don't have so very many colored doctors. I would
be guessing, but I would say that perhaps we have about a hundred
or maybe a hundred and twenty. We have I think about 40 or 50 of
them that are members of the Los Angeles County Medical Association,
that is, of the Latin-American doctors. The booklet says 'Mexican-
American' — I can't understand that. We have the Latin-American
Association here and they put me on their board of directors. There
are about 75 to 80 doctors in there. I daresay about 45 to 50 of them
or probably more than that belong to the Los Angeles County Medical
Association. So I would say that a large percentage of those that do
not belong to the Los Angeles County Medical Association are Amer-
ican doctors.
"Q. I will ask you this: to what do you attribute the basic reason
these people do not belong to the association?
"A. I attribute it to some of the people that come to this country
or perhaps come from the south ; for example, it would have been easy
for me to take the same attitude. I was a foreigner here in this country
and it would have been easy for me to carry a chip on my shoulder and
say I won't do anything because they won't accept me. But it is up to
us, and I have tried and I know the other officers of the association
and those who succeeded me and those who preceded me have tried to
explain to them that such a thing does not exist here in this country.
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 103
Perhaps in rare instances, yes, but on the whole I am convinced it
does not exist. Perhaps it is because some of them feel an inferiority
attitude, that some of them have been propagandized and some of
them have been told from sources they consider reliable that such
things exist. That is the only way I can explain it because every time
they apply I am the first one to go and welcome them and the same
thing happens with the other officers of the Los Angeles County Med-
ical Association.
"Q. Doctor, would you say it was just as easy for one of the so-
called minority groups to gain admittance to medical schools as
Americans ?
"A. May I answer that in this way, Senator? We have in this
country a large percentage of boys that want to study medicine.
Frankly, I don't think that we have enough medical facilities avail-
able for those that want to study medicine. Kemember, the day of
philanthropy is gone. Taxation is so onerous that nobody has any
money except to pay taxes and perhaps to live. Private medical schools,
unless some relief is given to them, are on the way out and only state
institutions will be the ones that will exist. Suppose we have in the
United States 30,000 individuals who want to study medicine, and
there are two colored medical schools in the United States, and out of
the 30,000 we have say 5,000 or 6,000 of them that are class A students,
students that are either Phi Beta Kappa or its equivalent. It is only
just for those medical schools to pick the men that have the best
marks. Say the percentage there of Latin-Americans may be only 100
and maybe only one or two of those are class A, and the same thing
with the colored doctors; for example, my medical school in the east,
Jefferson, is the second largest in the United States. I have been con-
tacted many times regarding men that have applied from the west
coast, especially California. And it was my duty to not only see as
to the moral fitness and capabilities of the student, but to contact the
medical school and see about his grades. I had to do so as a double
check and I know that Jefferson every year gets between 5,000 and
6,000 applicants, and out of the 5,000 or 6,000 they take in about 140
to 150. Some years 160 to 170.
"Q. It would be based upon their character, grades, and so on, and
nothing as to their race, color or creed?
"A. No, sir, not that I know of. I would be the first one to con-
demn such practice.
"Chairman Burns: Thank you very much, Doctor.
"A. May I make a statement, Senator?
' ' Chairman Burns : Yes.
"A. I can't understand, gentlemen, and I say it with all sincerity
without any secret evasion in my mind whatever, why, in a country
104 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
like ours, the greatest country on earth and this is not a flag waving
speech, anyone who has lived in the United States, that believes in the
traditions, that has inherited some of the direct patrimony and acquired
the rights and privileges and at the same time the bounties of this
country, can believe that we can substitute something for Americanism.
How can they for one minute try to substitute something that is inimi-
cal to the dignity of a man or a woman, something that we know is
atheistic and, if a man has any intelligence or a woman, he must believe
in a Supreme Being? How could anyone who calls himself an American
believe in something like that? Unless we have an aroused citizenry,
unless we tell the people of the United States what it is all about, we
cannot hope to stem the tide of Communism. In 1950, members of
the association made over 140 speeches in the County of Los Angeles
and other counties nearby, and our theme was we did not want
socialized medicine. Remember what Karl Marx said, that there
must be special attention paid to the education of professionals enter-
ing the party. And remember what Kanin said, that, 'the truth is
always there. Man has not lost it. He has lost himself.' As for me,
gentlemen, I am happy to take a loyalty oath at any time. I can only
say I wish every American had the opportunity to visit other countries
like I have and see what dictatorship does and see the barbaric atti-
tude of those who want to supplant Americanism. Thank you,
gentlemen.
TESTIMONY OF DR. CHESTER L. ROBERTS, M.D.
' ' Chairman Burns : Will you state your full name and address,
please ?
"The Witness: My name is Chester L. Roberts; I am a doctor of
medicine. My office address is 606 North Brand Boulevard in Glendale,
California. My home address is 2231 Hollister Terrace in Glendale.
"Q. (By Mr. Combs) : Are you a member of the Los Angeles County
Medical Association?
"A. I am.
"Q. You have been a member of that association for about how
long?
"A. Since 1941.
"Q. As a matter of fact, you were in charge of the Glendale branch
of the association, were you not, at one time?
"A. During 1950 and 1951, I was secretary-treasurer of the Glen-
dale branch, and during 1952, I was president of the Glendale branch.
"Q. Have you ever done any work as a consultant to the Glendale
Police Department?
' ' A. Yes, sir.
' ' Q. For about how long ?
' ' A. For about eight or nine years.
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 105
" Q. Were you here this morning ?
"A. Yes, sir.
1 ' Q. Have you heard all the witnesses who preceded you ?
"A. Yes, sir.
"Q. Have you ever been a member of the Communist Party or a
member of the Communist Political Association ?
"A. No, sir.
' ' Q. You never have been ?
"A. No, sir.
"Q. Doctor, did you become aware as the other witnesses testified
they became aware of a threat of infiltration by Communists in the
Los Angeles County Medical Association?
"A. Yes, I did.
' ' Q. When did you first become aware of that threat ?
"A. About three years ago.
"Q. Would you mind describing for the committee in general terms
how that condition came about ?
"A. For a good many years I had been a very close personal friend
of Dr. Alsberge and I had known of his activities in exposing Commu-
nists in the profession of medicine and I have gone to meetings as an
observer at his request to help him in any way I could. I felt the least
I could do was to assist him in any way that I could with a problem that
I felt personally was my fight as well as his and every other doctor in
the profession.
" Q. Dr. Alsberge 's office is in Glendale also, is it not ?
' ' A. Yes, sir.
' ' Q. Did you at his request attend any meetings ?
"A. Yes, I did.
" Q. Which was the first one that you attended ?
' ' A. The first one was at Larchmont Hall.
' ' Q. Where is that located ?
"A. 118 North Larchmont in Los Angeles, on February 25, 1952.
' ' Q. What was the nature of the meeting ?
"A. The meeting was devoted primarily to talks by Dr. Pennes, Dr.
Abowitz and Dr. Lippman who had been dropped from the staff of the
Cedars of Lebanon Hospital.
' ' Q. What was the tenor of their remarks ?
' ' A. They were, of course, very much upset. They thought they were
being discriminated against and were warning the entire audience of
somewhere between 500 and 600 that these things having started in
Poland, the same situation was beginning to take place in this Country
and that something had to be done about it right away.
' ' Q. Were there other speakers ?
106 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
"A. Yes, there were several. Stella Rugetti was chairman; Sylvia
Miller was co-chairman and they both spoke brieflly.
' ' Q. Along the same lines ?
"A. Yes, indeed. Reverend Turpeau, a negro Methodist minister,
also spoke.
" Q. Along the same line ?
"A. Yes.
1 ' Q. Was that an evening meeting ?
1 1 A. Yes, it was.
"Q. And commenced about 7 o'clock in the evening, did it?
"A. Either 7 or 8, I don't recall.
' ' Q. And continued for about how long ?
1 ' A. Oh, two hours — or two and a half hours, I believe.
"Q. In referring to the revolution in Poland, was anything said
about the revolution in the United States ?
"A. From notes that the other doctor and I made at the time, and
our mutual perusal of them afterwards
' ' Q. Do you have them in front of you ?
"A. Yes. Dr. Pennes first addressed the meeting and traced the
persecution of famous men through history, Socrates, Galileo, and so
forth, stating their names were remembered yet those of their perse-
cutors were forgotten. And that the same would be true in the case of
the three doctors from Cedars; that this action of Cedars was a con-
tinuation of the action begun years ago. Dr. Pennes stated that three
years ago a meeting of a group of physicians against the Burns bill
were disrupted by a Red-baiting attack by an emissary of the medical
association; that following this, these reactionary physicians, with the
help of a vicious smear sheet, Alert, attacked Drs. Hittelman and Robin-
son ; that, in spite of this vicious attack, Drs. Hittelman and Robinson
received a good vote in the association elections. Then Dr. Pennes stated
that the attack was being carried on by the Lay Board instituted by the
same vicious smear artists. Dr. Pennes also declared that the only basis
of his removal from the staff was the mention of his name at the un-
American committee hearing.
' ' Q. Did he use that term ' un-American committee ? '
" A. I believe he did.
"Q. Referring to the House Committee on Un-American Activities?
' ' A. Yes. Dr. Abowitz was asked if he had attended a meeting of the
Arts, Sciences and Professions Council at the home of Dr. Alexander
Pennes, that caused his dismissal from St. Joseph's Hospital, where he
had been considered the most important doctor on the staff and subse-
quently his dismissal from Cedars; that following this, he went to see
Mr. Hahn at the bank and was told that the board could discharge a
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 107
doctor if they didn't like the way he combed his hair. It was further
stated that the three doctors, Drs. Pennes, Abowitz and Lippman, were
told, so he said, that they had the right to appeal to the Los Angeles
County Medical Association and to the State Association and finally
to the American Medical Association; that, however, the three doctors,
stated. Dr. Pennes, had information that the Lay Board had already
talked with the medical association and the association had committed
itself to upholding the Lay Board and, therefore, an appeal would be
useless. Dr. Pennes stated that the medical staff was shocked and dis-
mayed by the actions of the Lay Board, but, however, they were pres-
sured into supporting the board. An example of pressure that he gave
us was, he said one doctor, who had been a staff member for 14 years,
signed a letter on behalf of the three doctors and since then, for the
three weeks preceding this meeting, he had been unable to get his pa-
tients committed to the hospital. Dr. Pennes stated that letters to the
Lay Board were ignored and that a petition, signed by at least 10
prominent staff members, would be required but that it would be im-
possible to secure, due to reprisals. His closing statement was, ' Cedars
belongs to you. It is a community hospital and doesn't belong to the
Lay Board. '
"Q. Were there other speakers?
"A. Yes. Dr. Murray Abowitz spoke next. He was introduced as a
member of Cedars' staff for 14 years and as chairman of the ASP (Arts,
Sciences and Professions Council) Medical Division. Dr. Abowitz claimed
that the spontaneous wave of protests had so swamped the Cedars switch-
board that extra help was required to handle all the calls and mail;
that since then, he said, it was impossible to talk to Weisberger unless
first cleared by the FBI.
"Q. Weisberger was the medical director at the Cedars of Lebanon
Hospital or at least an official there, was he ?
"A. Yes, he was. He said that letters of sympathy had been received
from Dr. Goodman of the University of Utah School of Pharmacy, Dr.
Alan Butler of Harvard Department of Pediatrics and Ernest Boas,
head of the Physicians Forum. He further said that the Los Angeles
Board of Rabbis were given the facts of the case and expressed sym-
pathy, yet, when they attempted to see Ben Meyer, they were refused
admittance, according to Dr. Abowitz. Dr. Abowitz further stated, 'the
medical staff, with few exceptions, are behind us. Pressure is keeping
them from actively supporting us. A number of contributors to the
Cedars Research Fund have withdrawn their contributions until we are
reinstated. Expectant mothers are cancelling their hospital reservations
at Cedars in protest.' He also stated that 200 of Cedars' staff members
held a meeting at the Beverly Wilshire Hotel recently and, almost with-
out exception, they deplored conditions at Cedars and promised to write
108 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
letters. Then his closing statements were, 'this must be a group fight.
Focal point of rebellion against Cedars is a rebellion against the human
incineration of Germany, the McCarthyites and the Tenneys.' He stated
that, 'our government has brought the infamous Nazi, Dr. Schreiber,
over here from Germany and placed him in charge of research in an
air force hospital. He was responsible for the mass murder of thousands
of Jews, yet he is honored by our government and we three are dis-
missed from Cedars. ' He further stated, ' Fifteen people in Los Angeles
are being prosecuted for the books they read and what they think. Things
have gone far enough.'
' ' Q. Did he point out that he had been identified by witnesses under
oath as a Communist Party member?
"A. No.
"Q. He didn't make that statement?
"A. No.
' ' Q. Were there other speakers ?
"A. The third doctor, who was dismissed from the Cedars of Leba-
non Hospital, was Dr. Richard Lippman, who was interested as a
two-times winner of the Guggenheim Fellowship, and it was also
announced that on that day he received a two-year research grant from
the National Health Foundation. Dr. Lippman was a very vituperative
speaker. He said that the loyalty boards, oaths and un-American com-
mittees had affected every field of science. He said, 'we have drifted
into a position the same as science in Germany under Hitler. Because
U. C. L. A. has a loyalty check the medical school is unable to attract
any outstanding men for their staff. Dr. White was cleared by the
FBI after a long delay but the board of regents felt that the delay in
clearance was sufficient reason to drop his name from the roster. Many
years ago, Dr. White registered, only once, as an I. P. P.' He stated
that continued un-American hearings and the persecution by Cedars
is a studied program to insure the passage of the loyalty oath bill by
the 1953 Legislature. 'Why did they pick we three for persecution?
We were especially vulnerable because, one, Dr. Abowitz was questioned
by the Un-American Committee ; two, Dr. Pennes was mentioned before
the committee as having permitted a meeting to be held in his home ;
three, and I was called to examine a Communist, Bernadette Doyle,
in Los Angeles County Jail. Is it a crime to examine a Communist?
A doctor is not supposed to look into the political or religious beliefs
of his patients. Dr. Abowitz has been very active in the fight for health
insurance. We have all spoken for peace. We all had a part in the
preparation of a statistical survey on racial discrimination in Los
Angeles hospitals. There are the reasons we have been attacked. If
they succed in keeping us out of Cedars, you will be under attack
next.' Then he sat down amid a roar of applause.
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 109
"Q. Did anyone else speak, Doctor?
"A. Sylvia Miller got up and announced that Dr. Linus Pauling
was not able to be present due to illness, but he sent a message express-
ing hope for victory in this fight. Then Reverend Turpeau stated that
with the help of the Arts, Sciences and Professions booklet, Yours for a
Genuine Brotherhood, he had been able to do away with all racial dis-
crimination in the local Methodist Hospital; that, in appreciation for
this help, he and his entire congregation would support the three
doctors in their fight against Cedars.
"Mr. Combs: The other two doctors have already been identified.
At this point I wish to make it clear for our record that Dr. Alexander
Pennes was identified as a member of the Communist Party of Los
Angeles County before the House Committee on Un-American Activities
in October, 1952, on page 4120 of the transcript, and at that point he
took refuge by invoking the Fifth Amendment to the Constitution of
the United States.
"Q. Does that complete your notes of the Larchmont Hall Meeting?
"A. Except I have this booklet that was distributed.
"Q. That was distributed at the meeting?
"A. Yes.
"Mr. Combs: To identify it, Mr. Chairman and Members of the
Committee, it is a folder entitled, Cedars Shame, and sets forth some
material about Drs. Abowitz, Lippman and Pennes and was issued
by the Committee for Medical Freedom, 3757 Wilshire Boulevard, Los
Angeles, California. May we introduce this as an exhibit ? We offer it as
an exhibit to be marked the next exhibit in order.
"Chairman Burns: It will be admitted as Exhibit No. 7.
"Q. (By Mr. Combs) : Did you also attend a meeting which was in
the nature of a testimonial dinner for the Reverend Stephen Fritch-
man?
"A. Yes, I did.
"Q. What was the date of that meeting?
"A. April 10th, 1954.
"Q. Did you go alone or with someone else?
"A. I went with Dr. Marden Alsberge at his request as an observer.
"Q. And did you also take notes during or immediately after
attending that meeting?
"A. Yes, I did.
"Q. Where was it held?
"A. It was held at the Park Manor, 607 Southwestern, Los Angeles.
"Q. What time did you and Dr. Alsberge go to the meeting, about?
"A. Shortly before 7 p.m.
"Q. And you left at when?
"A. It was pretty late, I guess 11 or 11.30.
110 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
"Q. About how many people were present?
"A. I should judge roughly a thousand.
" Q. It was a very large meeting ?
"A. Yes, indeed.
' ' Q. Men and women both ?
"A. Yes, sir.
"Q. Was it a dinner meeting?
"A. Yes, it was.
"Q. And were you admitted by ticket?
"A. Yes, we were.
"Q. Do you have a copy of, or a replica of the ticket with you?
"A. Yes, I do.
"Q. May I see it, please?
"A. Yes.
"Q. I notice that on this ticket it reads as follows: 'Stephen H.
Fritchman Testimonal Dinner. Saturday, April 10, 1954, 7 p.m. Park
Manor, 607 South Western, Los Angeles, California. Sponsor: Com-
munity Medical Foundation. ' Do you know what that is ?
"A. The Community Medical Foundation, I understand, is an organ-
ization which sponsors the Community Medical Center.
"Q. And what is the Community Medical Center?
"A. It is a medical center where care is given to people in that area.
"Q. Is it in the nature of a clinic?
"A. Yes, I have some data on that.
"Q. It says (the ticket) 'Donation, $5 — no collection,' and on this
ticket is a number. This one happens to be No. 1553. Just what were
the mechanics by which you gained admission to the meeting ?
"A. The tickets were obtained and, when we went to the door, our
tickets were checked by number and our names were asked, and the
name was opposite the number of the ticket, so there could be no slip-up,
and the tickets were not just handed in. They were stopped and checked
off and our names were requested.
"Q. In other words, as I understand it, when you would walk up
with a ticket such as this, you were stopped at the door and you pre-
sented your ticket?
"A. Yes, they took it.
"Q. And retained the same?
"A. Yes, sir.
"Q. And then you were asked your name and, when you gave your
name, they had a master sheet on which they checked your name and
made sure that the proper number was opposite the name, is that it ?
"A. That is true.
"Q. And that is the mechanics by which you were admitted?
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 111
"A. Yes, sir.
"Q. You and Dr. Alsberge went in together, did you?
"A. Yes, sir, we did.
"Q. And sat together during the entire evening?
"A. Yes, sir.
"Q. May we introduce this as an exhibit?
"A. Yes, sir.
"Mr. Combs: I offer this as Exhibit No. 8.
"Chairman Burns: It will be admitted as Exhibit No. 8.
"Q. (By Mr. Combs) : Referring to your notes, doctor, would you
mind telling us what took place at that meeting?
"A. The tenor of the meeting was eulogies of Mr. Fritchman.
"Q. He is the pastor of the First Unitarian Church in Los Angeles,
is he not?
"A. Yes, sir, and discussing the Community Medical Center. The
dinner was sponsored by the Community Medical Center. They intro-
duced several people from the head table. There were a lot of introduc-
tions and statements, and so on. Mrs. Rose Boyd, who was seated at
the head table, was introduced as the coordinator of the dinner which
was given by the Community Medical Center.
"Q. Do you know anything about Rose Boyd, who she is?
" A. I did not until I went to the meeting.
"Q. Continue, please.
"A. As I say, she was introduced as the coordinator of the dinner
which was given by the Community Medical Center honoring Mr.
Fritchman for his services as a member of the board of the Community
Medical Foundation, which, incidentally, runs the Community Medical
Center. There were statements by many men a few of which I have
notes on. Rabbi Winaker, from either Santa Monica or Pacific Pali-
sades, gave a very vituperative talk, eulogizing Mr. Fritchman and
criticizing our government in many ways. One of the statements that
aroused a lot of laughter was when he said, 'In America today a per-
son is either being roasted by inquisitors or frozen out of jobs.' Then
Rev. G. L. Hayes advocated Mr. Fritchman as a suitable man for
nomination for President of the United States, again amid deafening
applause. Mr. Stephen Fritchman, after replying to the eulogies, stated
that he hoped that if a member of the FBI was present in the audience,
that he had at least paid for his dinner.
"Q. Did that provoke gaiety and merriment also?
"A. Yes, indeed. Another quote we have here by Mr. Fritchman is
that he hoped to see our taxes spent for government-financed hospitals
for all people instead of hydrogen bomb hysteria. The tenor of the
evening regarding the remarks by many, many speakers, little short
112 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
talks, was that there were disparaging remarks regarding the FBI and
the "witch-hunt" committees, the manner in which our government
is run and the judgment shown in the administration of government
functions. For about an hour, roughly, Rose Boyd alternating with
Herman Waldman read congratulatory messages, and so forth, one
would read one then the other would read another one as a dialogue.
One was from San Francisco ; one of them was from Dr. Richard E.
Weinerman from Pasadena, in appreciation, and congratulations from
Linus Pauling. And there were congratulatory messages from Reuben
Burrough, Cedric Belfrage, W. C. DuBois and Rockwell Kent; and
also a message from the president of Local 6 of the International Long-
shoremens Union of San Francisco.
"Q. May I interrupt you there? Rockwell Kent, of course, is a very
noted artist and president of an organization which has been legally
defined as a Communist front, a very, very big one, the International
Workers Order, which will identify Rockwell Kent, who is often con-
fused with Norman Rockwell, the man who makes the covers for the
Saturday Evening Post.
"A. Among the introductions and speakers, Kenneth Hartford was
introduced as an officer — I don't remember whether it was business
director or executive officer of the Community Medical Center — and
he outlined the operations of the center and stated that there were
18,000 patient visits per year. Also that the election of officers would
be held at the next membership meeting. Dr. Milton Z. London who,
incidentally, was seated at the head table, was introduced as the vice
president of the board of the Community Medical Foundation and as
chief of staff of the Community Medical Center. Dr. P. Price Cobbs
was introduced as a member of the board of the Community Medical
Foundation, and Rose Rosenburg spoke. She praised Mr. Fritchman
and his great help to all liberal organizations. She praised him specifi-
cally for backing the Community Medical Foundation because it
gave health care to foreign born and others ; also on his stand in behalf
of some of those under threat of deportation.
' ' Q. Was that the extent of the notes that you took ?
"A. Except on some of the people who were introduced at the table
or identified for me.
' ' Q. Will you tell me who they are, please ?
"A. These people were either introduced to me or identified for me
at the meeting. Dr. and Mrs. Murray Abowitz, Mrs. Rose Wald-
man, who, incidentally, was introduced to me, Leah London and Mil-
ton London, Ben Margolis, Louis Gardner, Dr. Leo Bigelman, P. Price
Cobbs, Dr. Koppleman, Dr. Thomas Perry, Robert Schmorlitz, Adrian
Scott, Gale Sondergaard and Herbert Biberman, and on the last one I
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 113
have on my list is Dr. Marvin Sure, who was an optometrist in my
home town of Glendale.
"Q. Do you know him personally?
"A. I know who he is.
"Q. Doctor, was there any literature or material of a printed nature
distributed at the Fritchman testimonial dinner?
"A. Just these two pamphlets were passed out to us. One of them
was handed to me.
' ' Mr. Combs : The first one the doctor has handed to me is entitled,
Teamwork for Health, Consumer-Controlled Through the Community
Medical Foundation, a Nonprofit California Corporation, 1236 South
Lake Street, Los Angeles. I ask that it be introduced, Mr. Chairman,
as Exhibit No. 9.
' ' Chairman Burns : It will be so received.
"Mr. Combs: And the next document which the witness has handed
me is a folder on green paper entitled Comumnity Medical Foundation,
1236 South Lake Street, Los Angeles 6, California, and when unfolded,
on the inside, it says, 'For you and your family: a comprehensive
medical-surgical hospital plan. '
"I ask that this be introduced in evidence as Exhibit No. 10.
"Chairman Burns: It will be so admitted.
"Q. (By Mr. Combs) : Do you have anything else to add, Doctor?
"A. No, sir.
"Q. Then let me ask you this question, or did I ask ydu whether or
not you have ever been a member of the Communist Party?
"A. Yes, you did.
"Q. And your answer was in the negative?
"A. Yes, sir, in the negative.
"Q. What was your conclusion as to the character of those two meet-
ings you attended and concerning which you took notes which you
have read into the record?
"A. Frankly, I was shocked. I had understood from Dr. Alsberge
in the years that I had known him that there had been some Com-
munist education in the Medical Association, but I had never realized
that it could be possible in this country, that people could fall so far
away from Americanism and get so much support from large groups
of people, and it was the surprise of my life.
"Q. You were shocked because of what you saw and heard at these
two meetings?
"A. Yes, indeed.
"Q. Did you form any conclusion as to whether they were or were
not Communist-dominated or sympathetic toward Communism?
"A. There was no question about that in my mind.
114 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
"Q. And that was true as to each of the meetings?
"A. Yes, indeed.
"Mr. Combs: I believe that is all, Mr. Chairman.
"Q. (By Chairman Burns) : Do you know, Doctor, whether or not
Dr. Abowitz was reinstated to the Cedars of Lebanon staff?
"A. I don't know.
"Q. (By Senator Thompson) : Doctor, you said there were a thou-
sand people at this last meeting, or approximately that?
"A. Yes, sir.
"Q. "Were the people that attended all along the same lines or were
a good many of them there because of some influence?
"A. That I do not know. I know they were very sympathetic and
that the jibes against the government and against the FBI and against
the way things are done in this country as a whole were very well
supported by their applause.
"Chairman Burns: Thank you very much for your kind assistance
and help.
TESTIMONY OF DR. BEN FREES, M.D.
Q. (By Mr. Combs) : Your address, Doctor?
A. 629 South Westlake, Los Angeles.
Q. Dr. Frees, you are a physician and a surgeon, are you not?
;A. Yes, sir.
;Q. And a member of the Los Angeles County Medical Association?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. How long have you been affiliated with that association?
A. Since 1916.
Q. Have you ever held any offices in it?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Would you tell us what they were?
A. I was elected president of the Los Angeles County Medical
Association in 1949. I was elected chairman of the board of trustees
in 1953. I was re-elected for the year 1954, and I am still serving as
chairman of the board of trustees.
"Q. How many members comprise the board of trustees?
"A. Nine.
"Q. Would you describe briefly the duties of the board?
"A. The Board of Trustees of the Los Angeles County Medical
Association have full charge of the finances of the association. The
ruling bodies of the county medical association consist of a board of
trustees of nine and a council of some 40. The council have to do with
public relations and policy, but they have nothing to do with the run-
ning of the business end of the Los Angeles County Medical Associa-
tion; that is entirely in the hands of the board of trustees.
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 115
"Q. Dr. Frees, you are aware generally, are you not, of the fact
that this committee received a letter signed by the officers of the asso-
ciation in 1953 and a similar letter in 1954, requesting this committee
to conduct an investigation concerning the alleged Communist infiltra-
tion of the medical profession in Los Angeles County ?
"A. Yes, sir.
"Q. Are you aware of the general background existing within the
association which led to the writing of those letters?
"A. Yes, I am.
"Q. Would you tell us about that, please?
"A. About 1949, the year of my presidency, there was a question
that arose in all professional circles of the loyalty oath. The State Medi-
cal Society was contemplating the passage of some sort of a demand
that all officers serving in the State Medical Association should take a
loyalty oath.
"The Los Angeles County Medical Association began to discuss the
same subject, so that in 1949 we contemplated legislation to pass such
a rule in our by-laws. The question was known generally by the member-
ship, the 6,000 doctors, and it was being discussed. Along about May of
1949, a letter came into circulation and it was called to my attention as
president that a meeting was to be held by a committee — that the meet-
ing was in the Hollywood Women 's Club. This circular letter was signed
by a great number of doctors, many of whom were friends of mine, and
others whom I did not know. It was sponsored under a committee called
the Emergency Medical Committee for the Defense of Professional
Licensure. Several doctors talked to me. They gave me the impression
that this was a movement against loyalty oaths and that the group was
looked upon as being representative of the leftist element, and that it
was the feeling that I should go to this meeting. Therefore, we gathered
a group of the top men who had held office in the Los Angeles County
Medical Association and we attended that meeting.
' ' First of all, I would like to say that we had difficulty in finding out
where the meeting was to be held, because the manager of the women's
club called by telephone and said that the board of directors had met
and that they were going to refuse this meeting.
"Q. Did she give any reason?
1 ' A. Yes. She gave the reason that it was such a meeting which per-
tained to the leftist feelings and was against the good of the new
Women's Club of Hollywood. Later on, we received a telephone call
that the meeting would be held, that they had signed a statement and
that they were bound by the signed agreement whereby they had given
the hall. So I did attend that meeting. I went with a number of others.
That is the first meeting of any sort of this nature that I have ever
attended. I certainly had my eyes opened.
116 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
"Q. Dr. Frees, during your attendance at the meeting, or shortly
thereafter, did you make any notes as to what transpired generally?
"A. Do you mean of the meeting ?
"Q. Yes.
"A. No specific notes.
"Q. In general terms, to the best of your recollection, can you give
us the character of the meeting and why you gathered the impressions
you did concerning it?
' ' A. The character was all sorts of propaganda of why a professional
man should never take an oath. It got into free thought, free speech,
free everything. Loyalty to our country was certainly displaced by a
feeling that our country amounted to very little. One could not sit there
and hear the speeches made by various speakers and not feel that your
loyalty to your country was something that had gotten to be a very
bitter end when people would utter the kind of language stated there.
"One of our members attempted to get the floor and speak, but had
great difficulty. He finally did vault the platform. We backed him up
and he did make a rebuttal speech to the group there that night.
" Q. Who was this doctor ?
"A. That was Marden Alsberge.
"Q. Did he make some statements refuting the remarks of the
speakers who had preceded him ?
"A. In no uncertain terms and with considerable applause by the
few of us who were there.
' ' Q. About how many people attended that meeting ?
"A. I would say that the hall was about half filled.
" Q. What was its capacity ?
"A. I think several hundred.
"Q. Did you attend any other meeting of a similar nature?
"A. No, that was the only meeting that I attended.
"Q. Did your experience at that meeting indicate to you that there
was some sort of a serious problem confronting the association?
"A. Very much so.
"Q. You then were in favor, I take it, of the invitation extended to
the committee to conduct an investigation and make the results of it
available to the association?
"A. Particularly brought about by the fact that occurred in May,
then the following November we held an election at the County Medical
Association for the officers for the ensuing year, 1950. From the floor
there were nominated two men whose names were prominent at this
meeting that I attended. Following the nomination of these two doctors
to hold positions of councilmen in our own society, literature was
mailed to all of the members of the association asking us to vote for
these two men. In this group of names sponsoring these two candidates
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 117
I found the names of the same men, many of whom had been at the
meeting.
' ' Q. Which indicated to you a pattern of infiltration ?
"A. Which indicated to me that it was much more serious than I
had anticipated.
' ' Q. What was the result of that threat at infiltration ?
"A. After the votes were counted, practically 20 percent of the votes
of the entire organization voted for these two men.
"Q. Did that serve to solidify the resistance and the effort to ascer-
tain the seriousness of the infiltration ?
"A. It was then felt that this could not be combatted by the associ-
ation itself and that we had to ask for help.
"Q. This was early in 1950?
"A. This election was early in 1950, that is correct.
"Q. Did you discuss the problem with other members of the
association ?
"A. Yes, sir.
' ' Q. Have you been discussing that matter since the time you first at-
tended the meeting ?
"A. Yes, sir.
"Q. The discussions are still in progress, are they?
"A. Still in progress.
"Q. Do you have anything else to add, Doctor?
"A. I don't think I have.
"Mr. Combs : That is all.
' ' Chairman Burns : May I ask you, Doctor, about the time that this
meeting was held, the Emergency Medical Committee for the Defense of
Professional Licensure, is that right?
"A. Prof essional Licensure.
"Q. Was that about the time we were having legislation presented in
the Legislature providing for loyalty oaths to those licensed under the
Department of Professional and Vocational Standards ?
"A. Yes, sir, that is the same time.
"Q. The leadership at the meeting were in protest to the passage of
that legislation and were attempting to implement some opposition to it.
Was that discussed at the meeting ?
"A. It was.
' ' Chairman Burns : Does anyone have any questions ?
' ' Mr. Combs : Yes, sir. Doctor Frees, let me ask you the question we
have asked of all witnesses. Are you now or have you ever been a mem-
ber of the Communist Party or the Communist Political Association?
"A. Emphatically, no.
' ' Mr. Combs : Thank you, sir.
' ' Chairman Burns : Thank you, Doctor, you may be excused.
118 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
TESTIMONY OF DR. NATHANIEL BERCOVITZ, M.D.
"Q. (By Mr. Combs) : Let us have your name and address, please.
"A. Dr. Nathaniel Bercovitz, 536 Avenue 64, Pasadena.
"Q. Dr. Bercovitz, you are a physician and surgeon, licensed to prac-
tice your professions in California ?
"A. That is right.
"Q. Do you have any affiliation with any medical group or organiza-
tions in the State ?
"A. I am a member of the Los Angeles County Medical Association.
"Q. And you have been for how long?
"A. I have been for a number of years.
' ' Q. Did you spend any time in the Far East ?
"A. I spent a number of years in China.
"Q. What part of China?
"A. On the island of Hainan in South China.
' ' Q. Would you set dates that your tenure commenced and terminated ?
"A. I first went out in 1915 and was officially released by the Com-
munists in May, 1953.
"Q. You were released by the Communists when?
"A. In April, 1953.
"Q. Where were you when you were released?
"A. I was in Hainan at that time.
"Q. You were doing work as a medical missionary?
' ' A. That is correct.
"Q. Under the auspices of what organization?
"A. The Presbyterian Board of Foreign Missions.
"Q. Would you briefly describe what your duties were in Hainan,
just what you did?
"A. I was superintendent of the American Presbyterian Hospital in
the city of Hoi How on the island of Hainan. This is a 180-bed hospital
which is conducted by the Presbyterial Mission. I had been superin-
tendent of that hospital for a great many years. I was also chief of
surgery there.
' ' Q. During the period of your residence on the island of Hainan did
you notice any evidence of Communist indoctrination on the part of the
residents of that island ? Take it from the time you first went there, and
if you will trace for us any developing incidents of obvious Communist
indoctrination or affiliation that came to your attention?
"A. When I first went there in 1915, of course there were no Com-
munists, but following the Russian Revolution in 1917, Russians began
moving into China. About 1921, the Communist Party of China had
organized. They quickly spread their organization throughout all of
China. They reached the island of Hainan in the latter part of 1922.
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 119
Then they began to indoctrinate the people there. By 1925, they had
made great progress, especially among young people.
"Of course, you understand that there had been the Kevolution of
1911, when the empire was overthrown and the republic started. The
country was in disorder. The Chinese did not quite know what it was all
about. The Communists told them that this was the real revolution that
they had been looking for, and they said they had all of the answers to
Chinese troubles. A great many people believed them. By 1925, they
almost took over China.
' ' We had to get out a couple of times by order of the American gov-
ernment because of the disorders. If it had not been for Chiang Kai-
shek defeating them they would have taken over China in 1927. They
were defeated, but they were not crushed because they escaped into the
jungles and the mountains of Hainan, down in the tropics there. They
were fugitives for a number of years, but kept on working in the under-
ground.
"As you know, the Communists swept through China in 1948-49, and
by the end of 1949 they had come to the tip of the peninsula just
opposite Hainan. All China had been taken except Hainan Island, and,
of course, Formosa.
"We were getting ready to leave for home on our usual furlough
when the Communists made a surprise landing in April, 1950. Com-
munists who had been hiding in the mountains durings these years
came out and took over. The present governor of Hainan is the same
man who led the Communists as a young man back in 1925. Of course,
once they took over they really took over.
"Q. By force, of course?
"A. Oh, yes, by force.
"Q. Dr. Bercovitz, you say that after the first attempt to take over
China, the unsuccessful attempt, the members of the Communist organ-
ization went underground, fled and sought refuge in the jungle country
of Hainan?
"A. That is right.
' ' Q. They remained dormant, under cover and in hiding until April,
1950, when they emerged and administered the coup de grace and by
force conquered the final vestige of resistance remaining in China,
which was Hainan?
"A. That is right.
"Q. At that time were you still medical superintendent of the hos-
pital ?
"A. I was still medical superintendent of the hospital.
"Q. How many people comprised the medical staff?
"A. About 125 employees, altogether, in the hospital.
120 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
"Q. "What was your evaluation of them as to fundamental loyalty
and opposition to Communists ?
"A. I always felt that they were against Communism.
"Q. From their activities and your conversation and your inter-
course with them intimately from day to day, you had an opportunity
to make that evaluation, did you not ?
"A. That is right.
' ' Q. Was that your feeling about all of your medical staff ?
"A. I felt that way about all of the staff because I had been pretty
much on the lookout myself for any who might be disloyal because I
was afraid of what they might do to the rest of the staff.
"Q. There was a natural religious atmosphere to your institution?
"A. Oh, yes.
"Q. Had that also permeated through the members of your staff, as
far as you could tell?
"A. Pretty much, yes.
"Q. Certainly antithetical to atheistic ideology?
"A. Absolutely.
"Q. In April, 1950, what happened so far as your staff was con-
cerned ?
' ' A. When the Communists took over, naturally everyone was pretty
much agitated about it, including members of the staff and the em-
ployees. It was then I got some rather unpleasant surprises.
"Q. Would you describe them?
"A. I found there had been among the members of the staff that
1 considered perfectly loyal and against Communism, and who had
even taken a leading part in the religious exercises of the church and
the hospital, I found several of those had been Communist agents,
working underground in the hospital.
"Q. All the time?
' ' A. All the time.
"Q. How long had those men been members of your medical staff?
"A. One of the men I know of had been a member for at least a
dozen years. The woman who was the leader among the women under
the Communists had been there for 14 or 15 years in the hospital —
or I will take that back — longer than that. She had been there about
18 years.
"Q. They had conducted themselves with such cleverness and guile
that despite the fact you were their medical superintendent they com-
pletely fooled you?
"A. Yes. The woman was one of the deaconesses in the church. The
man I just mentioned was always a very enthusiastic singer in the
choir. I had no reason to think he was anything but anti-Communist.
1 ' Q. They gave you that impression, both of them ?
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 121
"A. Yes, both of them, very much so.
"Q. What was their attitude toward you immediately prior to their
emergence as underground Communist agents, one of friendliness and
intimacy ?
"A. Until they emerged as underground Communists there was no
relation at all. I could not tell any difference between them and the
others.
' ' Q. What was their attitude afterwards ?
"A. They completely changed. It changed very soon after the Com-
munists came and were in the saddle. They had been having communica-
tions secretly with the Communists. Within a few days, the Communist
leaders came in and met with them and before long we could see what
was going on in the hospital.
"Q. In other words, during the period you afterward discovered,
after they took over, that they had been in contact and operating with
the Communist organization constantly?
' ' A. Yes, right along.
"Q. So that the preparations had been carefully laid when the blow
fell and it was relatively simple for Communist forces to take over ?
"A. Absolutely.
" Q. What happened to you personally ?
"A. At first, while the Communist government was getting itself
organized, nothing happened; but very soon the government clamped
down on the hospital. Before long they took over and we were put under
house arrest.
' ' These people who had been in the underground, of course, were the
leaders in the hospital. It was a terrible thing to see because having
been in the hospital these years they naturally knew everything about
everybody on the staff. They knew all about the hospital. Knowing that
a great many of the staff members were anti- Communist, they, of course,
put those anti-Communist people on the staff. They had these people
who were telling on them. There was really a reign of terror in the
hospital. These folks who had been in the underground were the leaders
as soon as the Communists took over.
"Q. They actually operated a reign of terror as you described it.
That existed in the hospital from that time on ?
"A. Absolutely.
" Q. You were under house arrest in the hospital ?
"A. Yes.
' ' Q. Or in your residence ?
"A. No. They put us out of our residence and gave my wife and me
a couple of rooms in the hospital, where we stayed. We were there 35
months after the Communists came.
122 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
"Q. 35 months?
"A. Yes. That gave me a chance to see quite a bit about it. Even
though we were under house arrest I saw a great deal of what went on.
"Q. Would you mind describing what took place during that period
of time, Doctor 1
"A. Once the Communists took over, the main interest was to see
that none of the staff was allowed to leave the hospital. They had to
continue. The government forced them to work on. There was no volun-
tary resigning. Once in a job they were frozen there. That is apparently
the pattern of Communists wherever they go.
" Q. No freedom of individual choice ?
"A. No freedom of individual choice as to where you are to work.
Then the government fixes wages or the salaries. That was altogether
fixed by the government, with no chance of protest.
' ' Then they carried on a reign of terror in the hospital. They intimi-
dated the hospital staff so much that they were living in a constant
terror of being arrested. Several members were arrested and put in
prison and never heard from again. That is the thing they were afraid
of. Day or night they could never tell when some of the secret police
would come and question them. Two o'clock in the morning was a
favorite time for waking people up and asking them to come to the
police station to answer questions.
' ' Q. By the secret police ?
"A. By the secret police. So they had the entire staff intimidated.
Another thing they did, which was extremely interesting from my
standpoint, was the indoctrination. From the day they took over the
hospital, that very afternoon, they began intensive indoctrination of
the staff. They broke them up into little groups or cells of 10 to 15.
Day after day, after the hospital work was over, they had to sit and
study one of the books on Communism, attend lectures on Communism.
And till the day we were finally released that was kept up.
' ' Q. There was no choice about that ?
"A. No.
" Q. As far as the individual was concerned ?
"A. No. They had to attend. They had to write papers and pass
examinations. It was an endless thing, this indoctrination.
"The attempt of the Communists is to mold people to their way of
thinking. Once in control there is absolutely no chance of individual
choice or liberty. From the time a child is born the state practically
takes over.
"The children of the staff were sent to Communist schools, but the
important thing about the staff, the entire staff of doctors and nurses
and their employees, was that there was absolutely no choice, no indi-
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 123
vidual choice. If they wanted to leave or if they wanted a change of
occupation, there was no choice at all. They had to carry on and do
just what the government told them to do.
"Q. You certainly saw the Communists rule by force and terror at
first hand, then, didn 't you ?
' ' A. I saw it at first hand and it was a terrible thing.
"Q. Dr. Bercovitz, have you made any study of the pattern of Com-
munist techniques and activities in other parts of the world ?
"A. No, I haven't.
"Q. To see whether or not they parallel the techniques that you ob-
served personally at Hainan ?
"A. My only study has been by observation and by talking to some
people who have been in other parts of the world and who know some-
thing about Communism. The pattern seems to be the same everywhere.
There seems to be very little variation. I think they got their orders
probably from Russia because everything had the Russian taint to
it. After the Communists took over at Hainan there were a great
many Russians there. They came as advisers, but actually they were
telling the people what to do. I think the .pattern is the same every-
where they go, from what I have read and from what I have heard
from talking to a few people. I should say the pattern is the same every-
where, and if they came here it would be the same.
"Q. Are you personally acquainted with Dr. Ben Frees who pre-
ceded you on the stand?
"A. I am, sir.
" Q. How long have you known him ?
"A. I think I first met him in 1910.
■ ' Q. Have you discussed this problem from time to time ?
"A. We have talked things over.
"Q. You are aware in general terms of the concern of the officers of
the Los Angeles County Medical Association regarding the threat of
Communist infiltration of their organization?
"A. Yes, sir.
"Q. Basing your answer to this question, Dr. Bercovitz, on your
experiences with Communist technique in the hospital where you
worked, would it be possible for numerous members of the Communist
Party to operate in the same manner and with the same technique in
a body like the Los Angeles County Medical Association ?
"A. I think it would be, sir.
"Q. Of course, you consider that extremely serious, as I unde~stand
your testimony?
"A. I consider it extremely serious.
"Q. Do you believe proper steps should be taken to combat it?
" A. I think so, yes.
124 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
"Q. Have you ever been a member of the Communist Party or the
Communist Political Association ?
"A. I have not.
"Q. Do you have any personal feeling of resentment or hostility to-
ward us for asking you that question ?
' ' A. Not at all. I think it is a fair question.
"Q. Do you have anything else which you can contribute to us, Dr.
Bercovitz ?
"A. I don't think so, except that I am very glad that there is a
group looking into this.
"Mr. Combs: Thank you, that is all.
"Chairman Burns: Doctor, after the taking over of your hospital
did the indoctrination of your staff and the other methods of intimi-
dation, did that change the accepted medical practices in an attempt to
bring the practice of medicine as it was carried out under a different
aspect or different method of any kind?
' ' A. Perhaps I can answer that by saying that when the Communists
took over the hospital the superintendent of the hospital was a Com-
munist and I don't think he was ever in a hospital before. He was a
good Communist. That is the reason he was chosen for the job. His
principal job was to see that Communism was spread through the staff
of the hospital and to see that nothing was done contrary to the prin-
ciples of Communism.
"Q. Did he have a medical education?
' ' A. No, I don 't think he had ever been in a hospital before. In addi-
tion to that, they had as assistant superintendent a doctor. They chose
one of the staff unwillingly — he had no choice, but they said he was to
be assistant superintendent in charge of medical work. That is the way
they ran the hospital. He had absolutely no power at all in the way of
administration. All that he could do was run the medical end of things
as best he could. Of course, I was out of circulation, so I don't know
much about the quality of the work, but from little things I gathered
the quality of the work dropped.
"The Chinese are basically individualists. They are freedom loving
people. This was a terrible thing for the rank and file of the people to
take. They never had been under anything like that before. I under-
stand that the medical work, the quality, certainly went down. We were
running a good hospital there. It was not a good hospital after that.
"Furthermore, I found out that as far as the preferential treatment
in the hospital was concerned — there were other hospitals in Hoi How
at that time and they combined them into our hospital. If you belonged
to the Communist Party or if you were employed by the government or
were in their family you would be assured of fairly good treatment, but
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 125
if you were an ordinary person it was very difficult to get good treat-
ment.
"Q. (By Mr. Combs) : Suppose you were a notorious anti-Commu-
nist, what kind of treatment would you get if you had an appendec-
tomy to be performed 1
"A. You probably wouldn't get that far. They executed a number
of people when they took over. "We will never know the number. I have
seen in the newspapers they estimate from fourteen to fifteen million
people were executed at the time the Communists took over. I think
that is conservative if anything. In the Island of Hainan any number
of prominent people were executed because they were anti-Communists.
"Q. Are you aware, Doctor, that some of the propaganda that ema-
nates from the front organizations alleged to be controlled by Com-
munists in this city, and particularly in which there is a strong nucleus
of physicians, that that propaganda is based largely on alleged dis-
crimination in our hospitals? Certainly, from what you have said, the
discrimination exercised by Communists in the hospital with which
you were familiar amounted to mass murder, didn't it?
"A. That is right.
"Q. Instead of leaving a capable medical superintendent in charge
of the hospital, after the Communists took over they removed him and
put in a nonmedical Communist?
''A. That is exactly what happened.
"Q. (By Senator Thompson) : When they took over were they more
interested in medical problems than in the other problems that they
came across?
"A. The first thing with Communists is what they call political
science. That takes precedence over everything else. They wanted good
medicine, but above all they wanted to be sure they had good
Communists.
"Q. You mentioned something about the Chinese being indivi-
dualists. Do you believe as a whole the Chinese are really in sympathy
with the Communists, the Chinese people?
''A. I don't think so. Frankly, Communism in China is like it is
everywhere else. It is a minority rule. I don't believe that there are
more than three or four million actual party members in China out
of a population of over 500,000,000. But they have seized control.
They have control of the army. They have control of all bureaus.
They have complete control of the government. They are holding the
rest practically as slaves.
"Q. Then it holds true, Doctor, that a very small minority can do
a great deal of damage?
"A. That is right. That is it exactly. That is where the danger
126 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
"Senator Thompson: Thank yon, Doctor.
' ' Chairman Burns : Thank you very much, Doctor. You are excused.
TESTIMONY OF DR. EUGENE F. HOFFMAN, M.D.
' ' Chairman Burns : Give us your name and address, please.
"The Witness: Eugene F. Hoffman, 2212 "West Third Street, Los
Angeles 57.
"Q. (By Mr. Combs) : Dr. Hoffman, you are a licensed physician
and surgeon in California?
"A. That is correct, sir.
"Q. How long have you been a member of the medical profession?
"A. Do you mean the society?
"Q. No, your profession. How long have you been licensed?
"A. I was licensed in 1933-1932.
"Q. And you have practiced continuously since that time?
"A. Yes, sir.
"Q. How long have you been a member of the Los Angeles County
Medical Association?
"A. Since 1935.
"Q. Have you ever held any office or offices in the association?
"A. Yes, sir.
"Q. What were they?
"A. I am on the council at the present time. I have just completed
my sixth year and I have been re-elected for another three years.
"Q. That is the council that was mentioned by Dr. Frees?
"A. That is correct, sir, the policy-making body.
"Q. Have you been out of the state recently?
"A. Yes. I just returned from the interim session of the American
Medical Association in Miami.
"Q. How long were you there, Doctor?
"A. From last week, Sunday, until last week, Thursday morning.
' ' Q. Did you perform any official duties or hold any official position
with regard to that convention?
"A. Yes, I was a member of the House of Delegates as a delegate
from California and also chairman of the Reference Committee on
the reports of the secretary and the Board of Trustees.
"Q. As a result of your official status at the convention and the
nature of your duties there that you have just described, are you
able to tell us, in general terms of course, your understanding of the
attitude of the American Medical Association toward Communism and
Communist infiltration among its members?
"A. Yes. I think they have a very definite policy. It is best expressed
in their Principles of Ethics — I think it is Chapter 8 — generally, it says
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 127
that a physician must uphold the laws of his community and be con-
cerned Avith the things that make a good citizen.
"Q. Have you any reason to believe that the Los Angeles County
Medical Association and the Los Angeles County medical profession
in general have any need for apprehension concerning its members
who may be Communists, or with Communist infiltration in general?
;A. Yes. I think we have a very definite problem here.
Q. How long have you been aware of that problem?
A. Since about 1948 or 1949, five or six years, sir.
Q. Would you mind giving us the reasons for your concern?
A. The Council of the Los Angeles County Medical Association
decided to discuss the feasibility of an oath of allegiance or oath of
loyalty to the country as a prerequisite for membership, and asked that
all officers and members of the society take this oath. Immediately there
was a furor raised. Letters were written. Meetings were held. A lot of
broad accusations were made of discrimination and that type of thing.
"Q. Did you become sufficiently concerned with the seriousness of
the problem to make it your business to attend one or more alleged
front meetings yourself?
"A. Yes. I attended a meeting at the Larchmont Hall in February
of 1952, in the latter part of February, around the 20th or 25th, some-
thing like that.
"Q. Did you go alone to that meeting, doctor, or did you go with
others ?
"A. No, I went with Dr. Alsberge.
"Q. Dr. Marden Alsberge?
"A. That is correct.
"Q. Did you remain during the entire course of the meeting?
"A. That is correct, sir.
' ' Q. Would you give us the benefit of your general impressions as to
the nature of the meeting and its implications ?
"A. Principally and basically the meeting was called to protest the
discharge of three of the doctors from the Cedars of Lebanon Hospital
here in the city. These three men were discharged from the staff. There
was a great deal of discussion and comparison with these men with
some of the early scientists like Galileo and that group, and how they
were being discriminated against because they had attended a meeting
of a so-called radical group. One man said the reason he was being dis-
criminated against was because there was a meeting at his house. I think
another one said he had attended a prisoner as his physician who was
held here in the city, and he was being discriminated against because
he had administered, in line of professional duty, to the particular
128 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
prisoner. I don't remember the name of the prisoner, but I think the
name was mentioned at that time.
"Q. It has been mentioned here in testimony yesterday, doctor. It
was Bernadette Doyle.
"A. Yes. Thank you.
"Q. Did you attend any other meetings?
' ' A. That is the only one I attended, sir.
"Q. Are you aware as a member of the Council that the Los Angeles
County Medical Association requested this committee to conduct an
investigation concerning the alleged infiltration by Communists and
to hold this meeting?
"A. Yes, sir.
' ' Q. Are you in accord with that attitude on the part of the associa-
tion?
"A. Very definitely. I think it is a definite threat.
"Q. You believe there is a definite and serious problem to be
handled ?
"A. Yes, sir, definitely.
"Q. Have you, yourself, doctor, ever been a member of the Commu-
nist Party or of the Communist Political Association ?
"A. No, sir.
' ' Mr. Combs : I think that is all.
"Senator Thompson: No questions.
"Mr. Combs: Thank you very much, doctor.
TESTIMONY OF DR. E. VINCENT ASKEY, M.D.
"Q. (By Mr. Combs) : Your name?
"A. My name is E. Vincent Askey.
"Q. Your residence address is?
"A. 757 Malcolm, Los Angeles. My office is at 2210 West Third
Street.
"Q. You are a duly licensed physician and surgeon in California, are
you not ?
"A. I am, sir.
"Q. How long have you been so licensed?
"A. I was licensed in 1923.
"Q. Have you practiced your profession in California since that
time.
"A. Ever since.
"Q. Have you ever held an office in the California State Medical
Association ?
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 129
"A. Yes, I have held several offices. I was First Speaker of the
House of Delegates for several years. Then I was Speaker, and then
I was President of the California Medical Association.
"Q. In what year?
"A. In the years of 1948 to 1949.
"Q. Have you ever held any office in the Los Angeles County Med-
ical Association ?
"A. I have.
"Q. What were they?
"A. I was the secretary-treasurer. Then I was a member of the Board
of Trustees. I was chairman of that board. Then I was President of the
Los Angeles County Medical Association.
"Q. What year?
''A. I was president in 1943.
' ' Q. Have you ever held any position in the Los Angeles City Board
of Education?
"A. Yes, sir, I was member and president one year.
' ' Q. What year were you president ?
"A. I think 1940 to 1941.
"Q. Have you recently been out of the State, Doctor?
" A. I just returned last week.
"Q. What was the reason for your absence?
"A. I was at a meeting of the American Medical Association held
in Miami, Florida.
"Q. How long were you there?
"A. I arrived on Thursday, a week ago this last Thursday, and I
was there 10 days.
"Q. Did you participate in any of the activities of the meeting there
in any official capacity?
"A. Yes, sir. I am First Speaker of the House of Delegates to the
American Medical Association; I presided at part of their meetings.
"Q. At any of the deliberations or activities of the convention was
the matter of Communism in the association discussed?
' ' A. Yes, if you will qualify the word Communism, although every-
body understood that was what we meant. Let me qualify that by saying
that there was a resolution brought in on the house in which it was
suggested that the American Medical Association deny membership
to any doctor who is discharged or denied medical service because of
being a security risk. This was understood to mean Communism and
its ilk. If you will allow me, if I may, to tell you the disposition of
that—
"Q.I wish you would.
"A. The reference committee that considered this resolution brought
three recommendations which were adopted. They stated that, first,
130 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
since this resolution only referred to those who were deferred or dis-
charged from military duty that it was not broad enough and only
took in a segment of our profession. They felt that such consideration
should be given to all doctors of medicine and all members of the
American Medical Association. Secondly, that a change of our consti-
tution would be necessary, and were this resolution adopted it would
require laying on the table for one year.
' ' Thirdly, that after all it was entirely unnecessary because for many
years, if not from the very establishment of the American Medical
Association, our principles of ethics have stated definitely that all
members are hereby called upon to give allegiance to and support the
laws of our country and to the needs of humanity. This report of the
committee therefore stated they felt such a resolution was unnecessary
in view of the fact the tenets of the American Medical Association have
always been for the support of our government. That was the dispo-
sition that was made, sir.
"Q. Dr. Askey, going back to your tenure as President of the Los
Angeles City Board of Education. That was in 1937 to 1943?
"A. I served six years, 1937 to 1943.
"Q. During that period of time did you have any practical expe-
rience with Communism?
"A. If you call it practical. It was very disturbing.
' ' Q. Here is what I mean by practical, Dr. Askey : did you have any
contact or experience during that period of time with an organization
called the Worker's Alliance?
" A. I certainly did.
"Q. Did you have any contact or experience with another organiza-
tion called the State, County and Municipal Workers of America?
"A. I don't remember the exact name, but I can tell you this, that
Workers Alliance representatives, and great crowds of them were in
our board meeting rooms, caused disturbances many times. As presi-
dent, many times I almost had to have them removed from the room.
I remember one time a certain Mr. Harry Bridges had come to town.
He had requested the use of one of our high schools for a speech, which
I objected to very strenuously. I wish I knew the man. I could not point
him out, but as I left the meeting one of the men that I believe stated
that he was a member of the Worker's Alliance told me that I would
be the second man in Los Angeles to be put against the fence and shot
by the Communists, of which I was very proud.
"Q. The Communist Party was a little more arrogant and imposing
in those days than it has been since. Is that true?
"A. I imagine so. They didn't mince any words at that time.
"Q. Were you aware of the nature of the Worker's Alliance at that
time, and its control?
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 131
"A. Only partially. I had no proof of it except from their actions
and the type of thing and the statements of several members to me,
that I would be defeated at my next election because the Communist
Party was going to oppose me. I asked them if that were true, these
people who were talking to me, and they assured me it was. Right
then I told them I would give them some information, that I had de-
cided not to run again, but since they said they were going to defeat
me, I certainly would. I was elected by the greatest majority cast in
that election in 1941.
"Q. By reason of your experiences with the Worker's Alliance at
that time, were you able to form any conviction concerning their activi-
ties on behalf of the people who were unemployed or on relief?
"A. I don't know exactly what your question means.
"Q. Let me make it more explicit. The Worker's Alliance, according
to hearings held by this committee in 1941, 1942 and 1943, was found
to be headed by a man named Alexander Noral, who was identified by
many witnesses as a member of the Communist Party. In 1940, he was
on the presidential electorate slate as an avid Communist, which, of
course, was quite persuasive concerning at least this top officer of the
Worker's Alliance. The organization which ostensibly functioned as a
union had for one of its express purposes the relief of people who
were unemployed. I am simply inquiring of you, Dr. Askey, whether
or not you have any personal information as to the activities of the
Worker's Alliance in that connection?
"A. Yes, I do, now that you call it to my attention. I remember at
one time at a board of education meeting there was a group present,
at which time, in view of the needs of the group, there was furnished
to these families who were apparently working under state relief, or
the Worker's Alliance type, shoes and other articles of clothing. The
Worker's Alliance protested strongly to the board of education that
these shoes furnished to them were repaired shoes and that they wanted
to be given the finest shoes and the newest shoes because here they were
being given shoes that were repaired. I examined some of the shoes.
They were better than those I was wearing at the time. It seems to
me they were just stirring up all sorts of trouble trying to foment
trouble in every possible governmental board. I was told that the
board of education was only one of the governmental boards at which
these turmoils and troubles were started by similar groups. I became
very alarmed at it at that time, sir.
"Q. Since then, Dr. Askey, have you endeavored to keep yourself
generally informed concerning the functions and activities of the Com-
munists in this area?
"A. I have. I may tell you why I was so upset a little later. An
old professor of mine told me when I started to practice medicine,
132 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
he said, 'Align yourself with your organized profession and take on
the duties of your Country as a citizen. ' That was Dr. David Reissman
of Philadelphia. I have always valued him as a friend and great
adviser. As I have told you, I started as a member of my association,
and later as an officer. I took up my duties as a citizen on the board
of education, and other activities. I found that in the medical profes-
sion there were men who did not seem to have the ideals and the love
for my Country. In 1949, at the meeting which Dr. Frees and the other
gentleman have testified about, I was told about it and asked to go.
I was so upset because it was in regard to professional license in the
State, objections by men who held licenses in our profession in Cali-
fornia, who were objecting to the loyalty oath and felt it was the
establishment of Naziism in our Country.
"I have never seen any reason why a person should not say that he
loved something. I think it is pretty generally understood that if you
love your wife you don't object if she asks you if you love her. Nor
do I see why I should object to saying I am loyal to my Country, or
I love her.
''That was the reason I was interested in this meeting. I went with
the other gentlemen and I was astounded to see there a doctor of
medicine as chairman of the meeting. I saw a member of the clergy
who spoke. I saw a member of the dental profession who spoke. I saw
an attorney. They all spoke and stated — I can give you the ones who
said it. The clergyman, Rabbi Cohn, stated that he had been in Ger-
many and had seen the development of Naziism and the rules and laws
of Naziism could not compare with the terrible rules and laws of our
country. Such a thing is ridiculous to me, but it showed me that the
professions of our State were infiltrated with a terribly disloyal group
of individuals. (Committee's italics.) I saw a doctor as chairman. I saw
another doctor get up, by the name of Perry. This is the thing I was
going to tell you that disturbed me. He stated his forefathers came over
on the Mayflower.
"Q. That was Thomas Perry?
"A. That was Thomas Perry. What disturbed me, my ancestors
came over here and my great-grandmother's name was Perry and I
was afraid he might be some relation of mine. (Laughter.) Anyway,
I was greatly disturbed at that meeting. That was one of the reasons
why I have been interested in it, sir.
"Q. Dr. Askey, are you aware of the fact that the committee was
invited and asked to conduct this investigation?
"A. I am, sir.
' ' Q. Did that have your support ?
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 133
"A. It had iny support entirely, although I wasn't a member of the
council and did not have an opportunity to vote on it, but I am very
greatly in favor of it, sir.
"Q. Did you attend any other meetings besides the ones you have
described ?
"A. No. That was the only one, sir.
"Q. Have you discussed with your colleagues in the profession meet-
ings other than the one you described which were attended by them?
"A. Yes, I have.
"Q. At considerable length ?
''A. Yes.
"Q. As a result of your conversations with them, as a result of your
personal experiences with the Worker's Alliance and Communist pres-
sure groups that you have alluded to as president of the Board of Edu-
cation and a member of it, and as a result of your experience as a
member of the American Medical Association, all of these things, what
is your opinion concerning the seriousness of the threatened infiltration
of the association, that is, the Los Angeles County Medical Association,
by Communists ?
"A. I think it is very, very dangerous. I think perhaps it has great
dangers because I fear that they have gone undercover more. And, as
Dr. Bercovitz — whom I never met until this morning — told you, that
even those whom he was sure of he found out later were working against
him. I wonder whether or not some of the men that I am certain of may
not be doing the same thing.
"As a representative of my profession of medicine and following the
dictates of the American Medical Association that we support our Gov-
ernment, I feel it is my duty that we go to every extent and find out
if there is such a danger and if there is to combat it.
"We don't believe in any witch hunt, whatsoever. We believe that the
great majority of doctors are loyal to our Country as evidenced by
peace time and especially their war records, and we stand ready to help
you gentlemen. You, being a state organization and committee, have the
facilities by which you can take these things up without any question of
witch hunting in any way. We want it through the organization, the
official committee of our State. They should and I believe will take care
of this matter. That is why I am here. (Committee's italics.)
"Q. Have you ever been a member of the Communist Party or Com-
munist Political Association, Dr. Askey?
"A. Never and I never intend to be. I am very happy to tell you that.
"Mr. Combs: I think that is all, Mr. Chairman.
"Chairman Burns: No questions.
' ' Mr. Combs : Thank you, Dr. Askey.
134 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
TESTIMONY OF DR. SIDNEY KOLODNY, M.D.
:Q. (By Mr. Combs) : Your name is Sidney Kolodny?
A. That is correct.
Q. You spell your last name K-o-l-o-d-n-y ?
A. That is correct.
Q. You are a physician and surgeon?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. You are licensed to practice your profession in California?
A. Yes, sir.
:'Q. How long have you been so licensed, Doctor?
A. Since 1945.
Q. What is your medical field, Dr. Kolodny?
A. Obstetrics and gynecology.
Q. Are you on the staff of any hospital or clinic?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Would you name them, please ?
;'A. Queen of Angels, Temple Hospital, Cedars of Lebanon Hospital.
;'Q. Did you ever do any work or were you ever on the staff of a
clinic in Los Angeles known as the Community Medical Cent erf
:A. Yes, sir.
'Q. When did you start working in conjunction with that center?
A. November, 1947.
'Q. Your association with it continued until when?
A. Until November, 1953.
Q. Did you form any general opinion concerning the political char-
acter of the medical staff of the Community Medical Center during the
period that you were associated there?
"A. Yes, sir.
"Q. Would you mind telling the committee what that opinion was?
"A. It is my opinion that most of the members of the medical staff
were sympathetic toward left wing organizations.
' ' Chairman Burns : They cannot hear you.
' ' Mr. Combs : The answer was that his opinion of the members of the
staff was that they were sympathetic toward left wing organizations.
"Q. By left wing organizations would you include the Communist
Party ?
"A. Yes, sir.
"Q. Did you see copies of the Daily People's World occasionally in the
physical building where the center is located?
"A. Yes, I did.
"Q. Your conclusions concerning the political nature of a large
group of the staff members was drawn from your conversations with
them?
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 135
"A. It is just a general impression.
"Q. It is just a general impression? Were you ever asked to sign any
petitions of a political nature while you were there ?
"A. Yes, sir.
"Q. Would you mind telling us what they were?
"A. I was asked to sign petitions in support of the Rosenbergs and
the Rosenberg trial.
"Q. In favor of the Rosenbergs?
"A. Yes. When three doctors were expelled from the staff of the
Cedars of Lebanon there was a petition circulated to reinstate the doc-
tors. I was requested to sign that petition, too.
"Q. You were requested to sign a petition on behalf of the three
doctors at the Cedars of Lebanon Hospital?
"The reporters at the table are gesticulating that they cannot hear
what you saj^, Doctor. Were there any other petitions ?
"A. Several years ago, there was a petition in favor of Harry
Bridges. I don't know the exact nature of the petition.
" Q. In connection with the attempt at deportation of Harry Bridges ?
"A. That is correct.
"Q. Did you or did you not consent to sign any of those petitions?
"A. I did not consent.
"Q. Why did you terminate your association at the Community
Medical Center?
"A. I terminated my association primarily because I didn't agree
with the political ideas. And, secondly, I did not feel that I wanted to
continue there because they had decreased the return financially in my
position.
"Q. For financial reasons?
"A. That is correct.
"Q. You said you were on the staff of the Queen of Angels Hospital
in Los Angeles. That is a Catholic institution, a Catholic hospital,
isn't it?
' ' A. Yes, sir.
"Q. Were you a member of the staff at that hospital, the Queen of
Angels Hospital, in October, 1950?
"A. Yes, sir.
"Q. Are you aware, or were you aware at that time of a charge
leveled against the hospital by the Community Medical Center and by
the medical division of an organization known as the Arts, Sciences
and Professions Council and by a publication known as the Daily People's
World, all of which alleged racial discrimination against a colored
woman who was a patient in the hospital ?
"A. Yes, sir.
"Q. You are familiar with that?
136 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
"A. Yes, sir.
"Q. You were directly involved in that?
"A. Yes, I was.
"Q. To some extent, were you not?
"A. That is correct.
"Q. How long have you been a member of the staff at Queens?
"A. Since 1945.
"Q. Continuously?
"A. Yes, sir.
"Q. Have you ever seen any evidence of any racial discrimination
or prejudice at that hospital?
"A. No, sir.
"Q. Never? Have you seen in any hospital at which you have ever
practiced, or with which you have ever been connected, which had a
greater tolerance or greater lack of discrimination because of race,
color, creed, or any other reason than Queens ?
"A. No, sir, I have not.
"Q. Is it your opinion that Queens was outstanding in that respect?
"A. Yes, sir, it was.
"Q. In your opinion it was?
"A. Yes, it was.
"Q. I show you now a sheet from a publication called The California
Eagle, published in Los Angeles, the edition of Thursday, November 9,
1950. I call your attention specifically to an article which appears on
page 4, columns 2 and 3, and ask you if you are generally familiar
with that particular article?
"A. Yes, sir.
"Q. You are?
"A. Yes, sir.
"Q. Have j^ou read it before?
"A. I read it several years ago.
"Q. Would you mind glancing at it now and refreshing your mem-
ory, please. You have read that article?
"A. Yes, sir.
"Q. Is there any basic truth to the allegations of discrimination
set forth in that article?
"A. No, sir.
"Q. Is it untrue?
"A. It is untrue.
"Q. I next show you a photostatic reproduction of an issue of the
Daily People's World for October 31, 1950, page 2, under the by-line of
Virginia Gardner and ask you if you have seen that article before?
Your name is mentioned in it.
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 137
"A. I remember that very well, sir.
"Q. You remember it very well, do you not?
"A. Yes, sir.
"Q. Is there any basic truth to the allegations concerning discrimi-
nation set forth in that article?
"A. No, sir.
"Q. None, whatsoever?
"A. No, sir.
"Q. Do you know that of your own knowledge?
"A. Yes,* sir.
"Q. Because you were the doctor who was directly involved in this
particular matter, were you not?
"A. That is correct, sir.
"Q. And that is simply a fabrication, and the allegation of dis-
crimination is made without any foundation whatever?
"A. Yes.
"Mr. Combs: Mr. Chairman, I dislike to take time to do this but I
think it is sufficiently important to do so. There are two columns of
the article in the Daily People's World which should be read into the
transcript at this point, otherwise it will be attached as an exhibit
and will not fit into the continuity of the testimony of this witness.
' • Chairman Burns : Very well.
' ' Mr. Combs : It reads as follows : ' Los Angeles, October 30. A pro-
test against most undemocratic discrimination and personal abuse prac-
ticed upon a patient for reasons of race was made to the Queen of
Angels Hospital by the Medical Division of the Arts, Sciences and
Professions Council.
" 'ASP's investigation of the case of Mrs. Lois Rambo, wife of
Jerome Rambo, a nego, was undertaken in connection with a study of
discrimination in the Los Angeles hospitals and medical schools.
" 'In letters dated October 25 and released today, ASP addressed
protests not only to the hospital but to a physician, Dr. Sidney M.
Kolodny' your middle initial is 'M', isn't it?
"The witness: Yes, sir.
"Mr. Combs (continuing: ' and to the Community Medical
Center, with which the physician is associated.
" 'The center was urged to investigate the mistreatment of Mrs.
Rambo and institute disciplinary proceedings against Dr. Kolodny for
his failure to support her in her protests against discriminatory treat-
ment.
" 'At first placed in a semiprivate room along with another white
mother, Mrs. Rambo, after the birth of her baby, was removed to
138 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
another floor, apparently when it was learned that her husband was
a negro.
" 'Because the room to which she was moved was outside the
maternity ward, Mrs. Ranibo was not able to have her baby for nursing.
Only after persistent demands that she be placed where she could
nurse the child, was she removed, this time to a room which she
shared with a negro mother.
" 'Unnerved by the mental anguish of separation from her newborn
infant, the mother found herself unable to nurse her child and was
removed by her husband to the family home after three days.
" 'The ASP Medical Division, under signature of Dr. Murray Abo-
witz, acting executive secretary, told Queen of Angels Hospital that
ASP was deeply shocked to learn that your institution basing itself
upon the principles of brotherly love, had permitted such treatment
of Mrs. Rambo.
" 'The patient, the letter declared, was at first denied the right to
nurse her child, and was reviled and insulted by sisters, nurses, physi-
cians and a priest.
" 'Declaring such treatment a violation of the very Christian virtues
which you profess, ASP medical men called on the hospital to correct
this wrongful act by an open apology to Mr. and Mrs. Rambo and to
pledge that no further discrimination or segregation would be prac-
ticed against any minority group.
" 'Dr. Kolodny was taken to task by the ASP Medical Division for
his part in Mrs. Rambo 's experience. Second only to the hospital's
guilt was his failure to support a patient at a time of need, ASP said.
The letter to Dr. Kolodny continued :
" ' "Not only did you fail to support her, but according to the
patient's own words, you participated in the current of abuse and in-
vective that was hurled at her."
" 'Dr. Kolodny was urged to apologize openly and sincerely to Mrs.
Rambo. The Community Medical Center, 5501 South Broadway, the
Medical Division of ASP declared, it is inexcusable for such treatment
to be accorded a patient because of her marriage to a Negro individual.
It is doubly regrettable that a physician associated with the progres-
sive institution in the community should behave in the manner that
has been reported concerning Dr. Kolodny. '
' ' Q. When you read that, Dr. Kolodny, what was your reaction ?
"A. I was flabbergasted.
"Q. Why?
"A. Because the accusations were entirely untrue.
"Q. You were the doctor directly involved?
"A. Yes, I was.
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 139
"Q. So, of course you would know.
"A. That is right.
"Q. You already have said that that particular hospital was out-
standing for its lack of discrimination or segregation?
1 ' A. That is correct.
"Q. "Would you amplify that for us, please?
"A. Yes. During the years I have been in practice in Los Angeles
I have never had difficulty getting a bed for a patient at the Queen of
Angels Hospital regardless of the patient's race, color or creed. I was
never asked what the patient's color was at the time of admission. The
patient was just admitted routinely.
"Q. Like anybody else?
"A. Yes, sir.
"Q. And was not shown any abuse or favoritism one way or an-
other?
"A. That is correct.
"Q. What is the reason you attribute to this kind of a statement?
"A. I imagine it was used as propaganda.
"Q. I will ask you the question I have asked the other witnesses, Dr.
Kolodny. Are you now or have you ever been a member of the Commu-
nist Party or Communist Political Association ?
"A. No, sir.
' ' Q. You never have ?
"A. No, sir.
' ' Q. You have never belonged to any subversive organizations of any
kind so far as you know?
"A. No, sir.
"Q. We are very grateful to you, Dr. Kolodny, for coming here
and testifying. You requested that you be excused early. I have no
further questions, unless you have something to add.
' ' A. No, sir, I have nothing further to add.
' ' Chairman Burns : On behalf of the committee, Doctor, we express
our sincere appreciation. You have done a good public service. I know
this has been a demand on your time.
"Mr. Combs: May Dr. Kolodny be excused?
"Chairman Burns: Yes, you may be excused."
TESTIMONY OF DR. JACK FLASHER, M.D.
"Chairman Burns: Are you ready with Dr. Flasher, Mr. Marshall?
"Mr. Marshall: My name is Daniel G. Marshall. I am an attorney,
1151 South Broadway, Richmond 79392.
' ' Mr. Combs : Mr. Marshall, may I have a word with you about your
client before he testifies ?
(Short interruption at this point.)
140 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
"Mr. Marshall: I have a motion to address to the committee first,
Mr. Combs.
"Mr. Combs: All right.
"Mr. Marshall: Senator Burns, my client was served with a com-
mittee subpena on Sunday afternoon. He reached me by telephone
sometime Sunday night. He wanted to consult with me with respect to
his rights when he appears as a witness before this committee. His
office is in an outlying section or sections of the community. My office
is downtown. I was occupied with other matters. We found it impos-
sible to get together for a conference until today, shortly before lunch.
In the limited time at our disposal I feel that I have not had adequate
time to properly advise the doctor of his legal and constitutional rights.
Consequently, I ask the committee at this time to move the doctor's
appearance over until tomorrow afternoon or Thursday afternoon so
that I may have an opportunity to advise him properly and so that
he will have, as I am sure the committee will want him to have, an
adequate opportunity to consult counsel.
' ' Mr. Combs : Where was your client served ?
"Mr. Marshall: He tells me he was served in the Statler Hotel.
"Mr. Combs: In my room by me, Dr. Flasher?
"Dr. Flasher: Yes.
"Mr. Combs: You requested that this time be set as the time and
place for your appearance, and we accommodated the witness, Mr. Mar-
shall, to that extent. We have also changed our schedule at your re-
quest, as I think you will of course substantiate, for two or three
clients, arranging our schedule to suit the convenience of your clients.
"Mr. Marshall: Counsel, you have accommodated several of my
clients in their appearance before the committee to accommodate their
professional commitment schedule.
"Mr. Combs: Yes.
"Mr. Marshall: You realize you began to serve the subpenas the
latter part of last week. The doctors schedule appointments many
times a week ahead.
"Mr. Combs: That is why we have tried to accommodate you.
' ' Mr. Marshall : That situation applies to this witness, but more im-
portantly by reason of the fact that he was only served Sunday, he
has not had adequate opportunity to confer with counsel. There are
grave and important questions involving the career of the witness, on
which he should have ample time to consult counsel. I don't feel that
I have been able to adequately advise him of his rights before this
committee, which are matters which require extended discussion and
consideration. In all fairness to this witness I wish that the committee
would not propel or project him into the witness chair with the limited
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 141
help, the insignificant help that his counsel is able to give him in a brief
conference over the lunch table this noon.
"Mr. Combs: Would it help you if he came in tomorrow morning?
' ' Chairman Burns : We are pretty well booked up for the afternoon.
"Mr. Marshall: Later on in the morning, perhaps 11.30?
"Chairman Burns: That is all right. Your request will be granted,
Dr. Flasher, to appear at 11.30 tomorrow morning.
"Mr. Marshall: Thank you, sir.
"Mr. Combs: You are welcome. I would like to see you with your
client for just a moment.
"Mr. Marshall: You stay over there Dr. Flasher, while I talk to Mr.
Combs.
(Postponement of the testimony of Dr. Jack Flasher, M.D.)
AMERICAN BAR PRESIDENT SUPPORTS DOCTORS
TESTIMONY OF GEORGE W. NILSSON, ESQ.
"Q. (By Mr. Combs) Would you state your full name and address,
please ?
"A. George W. Nilsson. I am at 510 West Sixth Street, Los Angeles,
California.
"Q. You are an attorney at law?
"A. I am.
"Q. Duly licensed and admitted to the Bar of the State of Cali-
fornia?
"A. I am.
"Q. How long have you been practicing in California, Mr. Nilsson?
"A. I was admitted in 1923, I moved over here in June, 1924.
"Q.I take it you must be a member of the California State Bar ?
"A. I am.
"Q. You are a member of the American Bar Association?
"A. Yes, sir.
1 ' Q. How long have you been a member of the American Bar Associ-
ation, Mr. Nilsson?
"A. Since 1919, right after I came back from World War I.
"Q. Who is the present National President of the American Bar
Association ?
"A. Loyd Wright of Los Angeles.
"Q. Did Mr. Wright communicate with you approximately a week
or 10 days ago and tell you that he had talked to me ?
"A. Yes, sir.
"Q. Would you mind giving us the substance of his conversation
in that regard with you?
"A. He asked if I would appear here on his behalf and make a state-
ment to this committee.
"Q. On his behalf as what?
"A. As President of the American Bar Association, and in my posi-
tion as a member of the standing committee on American citizenship
of the American Bar Association.
"Q. Have you ever held any offices in the American Bar Association?
"A. Never an office. This is my third term on the Standing Com-
mittee on American Citizenship. I have worked with the committee since
it was organized about 1920 or 1921. I was a member in 1929 and again
in 1930. Mr. Loyd Wright just appointed me for a three-year term.
(142)
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 143
"Q. As the duly authorized representative and spokesman for the
President of the American Bar Association, would you kindly make
the statement that you have referred to ?
"A. Yes, sir. In Article I of the Constitution of the American Bar
Association, the first objective of that association is stated to be :
<< < * # # To uphold and defend the Constitution of the United
States and to maintain representative government ;***..'
"At the close of World War I the American Bar Association realized
the dangers of Communism and therefore, during 1920 or 1921, created
the Committee on American Citizenship. Its duties are set forth as
follows :
" 'This committee shall have jurisdiction of all questions in the
field of American citizenship and of the American form of govern-
ment with respect to public education and understanding of both
the privileges and the responsibilities thereof.'
"At the meeting of the House of Delegates of the American Bar
Association on September 22, 1950, there was created a special com-
mittee to study Communism.
' ' The report of that committee was presented to the mid-winter meet-
ing of the House of Delegates in February, 1951, and after lengthy
debate it was adopted including certain resolutions the first of which
is as follows :
" 'Be it now resolved, That the American Bar Association, pro-
ceeding only in the manner provided in its constitution and by-
laws, expels from its membership any and every individual who is
a member of the Communist Party of the United States, or who
advocates Marxism-Leninism, and
" 'Be it further resolved, That this resolution be referred im-
mediately by the president of the association to an appropriate
committee of the association for prompt action. '
"The second resolution contained the following:
" 'Be it resolved, That Resolution I be referred to all state and
local bar associations with the recommendation that they expel
from their membership any and every individual who is a member
of the Communist Party of the United States or who advocates
Marxism-Leninism .
" 'Be it further resolved, That a copy of this report be sent to
all state and local bar association in the United States for the infor-
mation of the members thereof.'
1 ' The committee then prepared a lengthy supplement, entitled : Brief
on Communism; Marxism-Leninism. Its Aims, Purposes, Objectives and Prac-
tices, which was submitted to the meeting of the House of Delegates of
the association, held September 18, 1951, duly adopted; and thereafter
printed and widely distributed.
144 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
"I have here and I hand you a copy of that brief. Later on that
brief, together with the original report of February, 1951, were bound
into one volume and'published. I don't have an extra copy, but I will
secure it for you.
"Mr. Combs: Thank you, sir. May we keep this and introduce it in
evidence ?
' ' The witness : Yes, sir.
"Chairman Burns: It will be admitted as the committee's exhibit
next in order.
"The Witness: The printed document including the two reports was
printed and distributed.
"President Loyd Wright asked me to congratulate the medical asso-
ciation on its activities to expel from its membership any individual
who is a member of the Communist Party, or who advocates Commu-
nism or follows the Communist Party line.
"Q- (By Mr. Combs) : Mr. Nilsson, I hand you the October, 1954,
issue of the Journal of the State Bar of California, it being Volume 29,
Nos. 4 and 5. I direct your attention to the matter which commences on
page 349 and to the following pages and ask if you will examine them
briefly, please?
"A. I have already examined it.
' ' Q. You are familiar with it ?
"A. I have a copy of it in my office.
' ' Q. In that article the work of a special committee of the California
State Bar is described with recommendations concerning members of
the State Bar Association who were found to be members of the Com-
munist Party.
"A. Yes. May I correct that? Instead of being an article, it is a
reprint of the report by the committee to the Board of Governors of
the State Bar of California.
"Q. Thank you. It advocates a similar action as that taken by the
American Bar Association.
"A. They advocate the amendment of our law under which the bar
acts because we cannot act without authority and they are recommend-
ing three amendments to the section of the Business and Professions
Code which will take care of the situation.
' ' Q. That will be presented to the Legislature this coming session ?
"A. Yes, sir.
"Mr. Combs : Mr. Chairman, I think this issue of the State Bar Journal
should also be received in connection with the testimony of this witness.
' ' Chairman Burns : It will be admitted.
"Mr. Combs: I think that is all, Mr. Nilsson, unless some member
of the committee has a question.
' ' Chairman Burns : Thank you very much, Mr. Nilsson.
MEDICAL SCHOOL DEANS TESTIFY
TESTIMONY OF DEAN WALTER E. McPHERSON
''Chairman Burns: Would you give your name and address to the
reporter ?
"The Witness: Walter E. MePherson, M-c-P-h-e-r-s-o-n. My office
address is 312 North Boyle, Venice.
"Q. (By Mr. Combs) : You are a physician and surgeon?
"A. Yes, sir.
"Q. When were you licensed?
"A. I was licensed in California in 1924.
"Q. Do you have any official position in any medical school or edu-
cational institution?
"A. I am the Dean of the School of Medicine at the College of Med-
ical Evangelists.
"Q. Located where?
"A. Part of the school is located at Loma Linda, California, in San
Bernardino County, and part of it is in Los Angeles.
"Q. Are you affiliated with the Los Angeles County Medical Asso-
ciation ?
"A. Yes, sir.
"Q. And you have been for how long?
"A. I have been a member of the Los Angeles County Medical Asso-
ciation since 1936.
' ' Q. You and I had a telephone conversation sometime ago as a result
of a conference which you had theretofore, or a conversation, with the
president of the Los Angeles County Medical Association. Is that not
correct ?
"A. That is correct.
"Q. Dr. Sampson?
"A. That is correct.
"Q. You telephoned me and offered to come to this hearing and
testify concerning the attitude of your institution regarding this
problem.
"A. That is correct.
"Q. Would you mind doing so, please?
"A. To state it briefly, it would be this: that the philosophy of Com-
munism would be so completely antagonistic and in opposition to the
idealism and to the principles and to the objectives of the school that
I represent.
(145)
146 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
"Q. Do you have any opinion individually concerning the danger
of infiltration by Communist doctors in the medical profession ?
"A. I know relatively little about it.
"Q. What is your opinion?
"A. I just assume from what I hear there are some who have such
opinions.
"Q. What is your attitude concerning it?
"A. Would you state that again?
"A. Yes. What is your personal attitude concerning the alleged
attempts on the part of Communist doctors to infiltrate the medical
profession ?
"A. Well, I think it would be detrimental to the medical profession
to permit such infiltration.
"Q. You have had no difficulty in your medical school in this con-
nection at all ?
"A. No, sir.
"Q.I take it that you are alert to see that no infiltration exists ?
"A. We would certainly attempt to prevent it in every way possible.
"Mr. Combs: That is all. Do you have any questions?
"Chairman Burns: Thank you very much, Dr. McPherson, you may
be excused.
TESTIMONY OF DR. STAFFORD L. WARREN, M.D.
"Chairman Burns: Will you give your name and address to the
reporter ?
' ' The Witness : I am Stafford L. Warren, M.D. ; my home address is
141 Tigertail, Los Angeles 49. I was licensed to practice in this State
upon graduation in 1923. I have been away and returned to the State
as Dean of the School of Medicine, February 1, 1947.
"Q. (By Mr. Combs) : Dr. Warren, you have been Dean of the
Medical School at U. C. L. A. since that time ?
"A. Yes, sir.
' ' Q. And now are ?
"A. Yes, sir.
"Q. You had a conversation with Dr. Sampson also?
"A. Yes, sir.
"Q. Did you telephone to me?
"A. Yes, sir.
"Q. Did you express your willingness, your desire to cooperate with
the committee in coming here today and discussing the matters with
which we are concerned?
"A. You are quite right.
"Q. Doctor, I direct your attention to an article which appeared in
the Los Angeles Times on October 14, 1954, page 26, Part 1, which is
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 147
is headed, 'Defense Expert Warns of Radioactive Attack.' The subhead
says, 'Accidental Release of Particles From Subs Could Be First
Stage, U. C. L. A. Dean Declares.' Have you read that article?
"A. Yes, sir.
"Q. You made the remarks attributed to you in it?
"A. Somewhat differently, but never mind because the content is
the same.
"Q. Basically it is accurate?
"A. Yes.
"Q. Do you hold any position in connection with the California
Civilian Defense Agency?
"A. Yes, sir. I am chairman of the Radiological Safety Services
Advisory Committee to the Disaster Council.
"Q. You have held that position how long?
"A. About five years.
"Q. Do you have any connection with the national defense on a
national level?
"A. Yes, sir.
"Q. Advisory, or in what capacity?
"A. I am a member of the Medical Advisory Committee in the
FCDA.
"Q. What is the FCDA?
"A. Federal Civil Defense Administration.
"Q. From personal observation or reading or from any source, have
you become aware of the danger of infiltration in the medical profes-
sion, or in any profession for that matter, by Communists?
"A. My awareness goes back to the Manhattan District program
during the war where it was vital that portions of the medical profes-
sion and other agencies who participated in the atom bomb program
be thoroughly documented as loyal citizens of the country.
"Q. Because of the delicate and strategic nature of the work they
were doing?
"A. That is right, because of the top secret nature of the work.
"Q. Assuming, Dean Warren, that in Southern California doctors
who are members of the Communist Party are, by the nature of the
type of work with which they are entrusted, given access to emergency
defense plans or the detection of radioactive gas, or other matters of
great strategic importance, what would be the danger to the country
in the event the information thus received was relayed to unauthorized
personnel ?
"A. It could be very dangerous in two categories. One would be
the transferral of such information to the enemy, which would give
away our plans for defense. I consider these just as important as the
military plans for attack. I think the reason is obvious.
148 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
"Q. Yes.
"A. The other is that in case of attack we would be vulnerable to
sabotage from within in the place we would least expect it. This could
be exceedingly harmful and jeopardize the lives of a large number of
our people.
"Q. In your opinion would it be particularly true of the medical
profession or legal profession for that matter, because of the statutory
protection given to communications between attorney and client or
physician and patient ?
"A. Well, I think the two professions you have mentioned have the
trust of the people from almost the beginning of time and as a result,
certain professional privileges have arisen which enable the lawyer and
the doctor to protect their clients, if you might term it that. If Com-
munists were to utilize this privilege to the detriment of our national
safety, I think it would be exceedingly bad.
"Q. Doctor, are you familiar to any extent with the precautions
taken by the California Civil Defense Authority to protect itself against
infiltration by subversive physicians, if any such attempts have been
made?
"A. Yes, sir.
"Q. Would you describe what those are for us?
"A. The men who are on the Medical and Radiological Defense
Advisory Committees have had to fill out forms and be fingerprinted
and photographed. This material was subject to an FBI screening,
although the major screening was done by the protective forces of the
State. Also, the professional members of the committee were well
aware of their responsibilities and the hazards of subversive influences
and we had our own screening.
"Q. What facilities did you use for that purpose?
"A. Perhaps the knowledge some of us had about the records of
some of the men who were recommended for the committee members.
Most of these were men who were cleared for top secret and secret gov-
ernment programs. I think this state has a large number of men avail-
able who participated in these programs during the war.
"Q. You are aware, I take it, that the University of California and
the other universities in the State — perhaps not all of them, 100 per-
cent, but the overwhelming majority of them, the largest ones, entered
into a cooperative arrangement with this committee several years ago
for the purpose of protecting the several institutions against Commu-
nist infiltration. Are you aware of that?
"A. Yes, sir.
' ' Q. You are aware that this plan is in operation at U. C. L. A. ?
"A. Yes, sir.
"Q. Are you in accord with that plan?
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 149
"A. Yes, sir. I am under instructions, according to the Regent's
regulation put into effect during the war, not to employ anyone who
is a member of the Communist Party.
"Q. That directive by the Regents has been in effect ever since?
"A. Yes, sir. I have followed that literally.
"Q. I am sure you have. I will ask you the question we have asked
the other witnesses. I think I overlooked it in the case of the witness
who preceded you.
"Has Dr. McPherson gone? I will ask the question now: Are you
now or have you ever been a member of the Communist Party, Dean
McPherson ?
"Dean McPherson: No, sir.
"Q. (By Mr. Combs) : Have you ever been a member of the Com-
munist Party, Dean Warren ?
"A. No, sir.
"Mr. Combs: I think that is all unless there are any questions by
members of the committee.
' ' Chairman Burns : That is all, thank you very much, Dean Warren.
"Is there anyone present under subpena? Inasmuch as we have
excused Dr. Flasher from appearing this afternoon, it has changed
our schedule. We tried to accommodate a busy physician. We have
nothing further to come before us this afternoon. The committee will
stand in recess until 9.30 a.m. tomorrow morning.
COMMUNIST FRONTS AND THEIR MEMBERS
The next group of witnesses comprised persons who, according to
the committee's information, possessed certain knowledge concerning
the Medical Division of the Arts, Sciences and Professions Council or
other organizations described by some of the preceding witnesses.
It will be noted that these witnesses were treated precisely the same
as those who had already testified. They were asked the same type of
general qualifying question. They were asked the same identical ques-
tions concerning Communist affiliation. They were allowed every pos-
sible latitude. Many will undoubtedly insist that the committee in-
dulged these witnesses far beyond all reason. As will be seen from
the transcript that follows, they and their counsel were extended
every possible courtesy and favor. The committee suffered through
long propaganda speeches, frequent resorts to sarcastic taunts and
cheap theatrics — all without objection.
We believe this record speaks for itself; so clearly, so eloquently, in
such unmistakable terms that its implications cannot possibly be lost
to those readers who approach the subject without prejudice. Some of
the witnesses in this category, characterized by Dr. Thomas L. Perry,
bad been mentioned by others as having participated in so-called left-
wing meetings. Every opportunity was given each witness to declare
hi? attitude toward Communism and to state, as had the witnesses
who preceded them, that they were not members of the Communist
Party. Their responses and their attitudes must speak for themselves.
We have already discussed the Fifth Amendment to the Federal
Constitution at some length in our 1953 report. Since the publication
of that report, our courts, both those of California as well as the
federal tribunals, have given the added strength of judicial opinion
to the views we then expressed. To invoke the protection of the Fifth
Amendment is to admit a consciousness of possible guilt. No one is
entitled to invoke it because he does not wish to answer for personal
scruples, because of matters of principle, or merely because he wishes
to protect others. He must be sincerely convinced that a truthful
answer or answers will subject him to a criminal prosecution.
Up to this point in the hearing not one of the witnesses invoked the
Fifth Amendment — and the reason is plain. None of them were Com-
munists. None had been affiliated with Communist front organizations.
None of them had, by individual freedom of choice, pursued a delib-
erate course of conduct that would make them afraid to answer the
questions.
(150)
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 151
TESTIMONY OF DR. THOMAS L. PERRY, M.D.
"Chairman Burns: Will Dr. Pony please come forward? Is your
client ready, Mr. Marshall?
"Mr. Marshall: Yes, Senator. I don't like to be fussy about details,
but as the Senator is aware, there probably will be occasions when my
client will wish to consult with me. I would like the record to show that
the counsel table is immediately next to the bench where the committee
is sitting, and the witness will be sitting within a couple of feet of the
committee with the sound amplifier and I am much apprehensive that it
will interfere with our ability to consult quickly and effectively. May I
suggest that some other arrangement be made so that we can consult
better as we go along. I suggest that the table be moved down to the
lower level.
"Chairman Burns: I don't think that is practical. (Short interrup-
tion while the witness stand is moved to accommodate the witness and
his counsel.)
"Q. (By Mr. Combs) : Dr. Perry, have you been sworn?
"A. Yes, I have.
"Q. Did you give the reporter your residence and professional ad-
dress ?
"A. No, I haven't yet, do you want me to now?
"Q. "Will you do so, please.
"A. My name is Thomas L. Perry, M.D. ; my office address is 212
South Gale Drive, Beverly Hills. My residence is 11831 Chaparal Street,
Los Angeles.
"Q. You are a licensed physician and surgeon? You have practiced
your profession in California for a number of years ?
"A. Yes, I have.
"Q. When were you licensed, Dr. Perry?
"A. I was licensed in California in 1946 as I recall. I had my medi-
cal training actually in two places. I started at the University of Oxford
Medical School at England. I was a Rhodes Scholar there. I completed
my medical training at the Harvard Medical School. I received my
medical degree in 1942. I have had considerable advanced training
since then. I was first intern in medicine at the Roosevelt Hospital in
New York City. I practiced medicine for three years in the Army. I
saw two years active service in combat in the 3d Army in France and
Germany. After the war I had 15 months pediatric training at the New
York Hospital in New York City. I was later pediatric resident and
later pediatric fellow at the Los Angeles Children's Hospital.
"Q. Pediatrics is your field?
"A. I am a diplomate of the American Board of Pediatrics. I have
published a number of scientific papers on pediatric subjects.
152 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
"Q. You received a telephone message that came for you a little
earlier ?
"A. I received it about 30 seconds before this session began. I had
no chance to call.
"Q. I wanted to make sure you got it.
"A. Thank you.
"Q. Your counsel requested in view of the message that you be
called out of order and put on as the first witness, so you are.
"A. I see.
"Q. Dr. Perry, did you ever hear of an organization known as the
Association of Internes and Medical Students ?
"A. Mr. Combs and Senators: I think in answering that question I
would have to preface my remarks by saying that I respectfully feel
that this is the kind of question which should not be asked of me or
other witnesses. Actually the effect of this question is to instill a reign
of terror in the medical profession to frighten doctors out of what they
think, of having any independence of view. I think this is the sort of
question that has been asked in the various McCarthy hearings taking
place throughout the Country.
"As an American of old standing, because my people have been in
this country a long time, and I was brought up in the traditions of Jef-
ferson, Lincoln and Franklin Roosevelt, I believe that it is terribly im-
portant that political freedoms, the right of free speech, and freedom
of thought, the right to say what you think and talk to other people and
associate with people, that it is terribly important and I can't be a
party to any attempt to destroy these political freedoms in America
with its Democratic traditions. I spent much time in the Army fighting
Nazis. I will be the last person in the world to cooperate in any way
with any attempt to encourage Nazi methods in America. I think we
have gone too far in that direction already. This would be one of the
grounds for my refusal to answer such question.
"The second ground is this. I feel that this question actually is an
invasion of my right to speak and my right to be silent, of my right to
freely associate with persons or organizations, or not to associate with
persons or organizations. This right has been established for me, for
everybody in this room, and all American citizens through great strug-
gle. It is contained in the First Amendment to the Bill of Rights and in
Article I, Section 9 of the Constitution of the State of California. I
would certainly feel myself disloyal to the traditions of America if I did
not claim the privileges of these provisions of the Federal and State
Constitutions.
"In addition to that, I think this question is designed to submit me
to the danger of an unwarranted and entirely false prosecution of an
alleged violation of federal or state laws. I would certainly also rely
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 153
on that provision which has long existed in English law and in Ameri-
can law which was designed specifically for the protection of people
who are innocent and which in no way implies guilt of any sort, namely,
the provision that no person can be forced to be a witness aginst him-
self, which is contained in the Fifth Amendment to the Bill of Eights
and in Article I, Section 13, of the Constitution of this State.
"I think particularly in a week like this, which I think is Bill of
Rights week, that every person has a special obligation to defend these
sections of our State and Federal Constitutions which are designed to
preserve the liberty for which our ancestors in the Revolutionary "War
fought.
"These are among the reasons that I do not feel that I can answer
your question, and I respectfully decline to answer it for these reasons.
"My attorney advises me that I have additional grounds for a refusal
to answer this question. Of course, I am not a lawyer and I am not very
familiar with these proceedings.
"Q. You have a competent attorney.
"A. I certainly do and I am glad to have him here. I would like to
give you additional reasons because I think they are important. I think
this question is an attempt to deprive me of my rights to earn a liveli-
hood, and my liberty and property, without due process of law, to deny
me equal protection of the laws. It is contrary to the Fourteenth Amend-
ment to the Bill of Rights, and to Article I, Section 13 of the Constitu-
tion of this State.
"I want to emphasize the attempt to deprive me of my livelihood. I
was called a couple of years ago before the House Un-American Activi-
ties Committee. I understand that the intent of that committee and one
of the intents of this committee is to deprive any doctor who is a person
of principle, who stands up for what he believes and says what he be-
lieves to be true, who tries hard to bring good health to the people of the
community, it is an attempt to deprive him of his livelihood. As a result
of my refusal to give up the constitutional rights when called before a
like un-American activities committee two years ago, I was fired from
the staff of the Children 's Hospital in Los Angeles. I had been the lead-
ing pediatrician there for six years, and very active. The attempt was
to deprive me of my livelihood. I was not hurt so much as my patients. I
was treating children with tuberculosis, the charity cases at the hospital.
For six years I have been engaged in active research in the treatment
of tuberculosis in children. "When I was discharged from the Children 's
Hospital the special tuberculosis clinic was closed down. Tuberculosis
research was stopped. Charity patients for whom I cared were told that
'Dr. Perry is no longer here. Nobody is interested in you folks. Go find a
doctor at some other hospital wherever you can. ' I think it is extremely
154 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
bad that these people were hurt. Actually, the health of the people is
being hurt by investigations like this. The health of the people is being
hurt by what a few leaders of the county medical society, who certainly
do not represent the majority of the members of the county society in
what they are doing, they are actually lessening the quality of medical
care that comes to the people in Los Angeles. This community happens
to have a lot of tuberculosis. Tuberculosis can be a very serious disease
in children. I think it is disgraceful that my services, which were given
free, without any charge, are denied to people simply because I am a
man of principle, and I will not participate in any attempt to destroy
the Constitution. This is an enlargement of this particular provision.
"Also I would like to state several grounds which my attorney calls
attention to. First of all, that this committee sits without lawful au-
thority and it has exceeded its valid powers in asking the type of ques-
tions it has been asking here the past few days.
"It is my opinion this inquisition is the result of complicity between
the federal agencies and this committee to deprive me of constitutional
rights under the Fifth Amendment and to compel me to expose myself
to false prosecution of alleged violation of the law.
' ' Finally, the question has no materiality or pertinency to any lawful
power of the committee.
"These are among my reasons for refusing to answer this question.
"My attorney points out additional grounds. I did not realize how
complicated the law is.
"Also I refuse to answer the question because I feel this hearing is
being conducted solely in the interests of and at the request of a pri-
vate, nongovernmental group or organization, namely, a small clique —
not the whole, but a small clique of the leadership of the Los Angeles
County Medical Society for particular and peculiar purposes of this
small leadership of the Los Angeles County Medical Society to establish
a criterion for membership in the county society and for the purpose
of laying the ground work for legislation to be introduced in Sacra-
mento after the first of the year.
' ' From reading the papers I understand that the Los Angeles County
Medical Society leadership, and certain people in the California State
Medical Association, plan to introduce a bill in the Legislature, to deny
the right to practice to any doctor who stands up for his constitutional
rights before a committee such as this, or in any way participates in ac-
tivities or holds beliefs which are counter to those of this little clique
on the county medical society. I think it is important to point this
out to you Senators, because the effect of any such legislation which
would substitute political conformity for professional competence as
the main basis for the right to practice medicine can only harm people
in the community. As soon as a doctor has to agree with the beliefs
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 155
of the right wing reactionary, pro-Tenney, Gerald L. K. Smith group
in the county medical society, and your training and excellence and
devotion to patients and ability to cure and prevent diseases is not
important, then inevitably the quality of medical care that people in
this community get will decrease. You just can't have good doctors if
they first have to have political conformity and ability is secondary.
1 ' 1 think the health of the people in Los Angeles and throughout the
State is extremely important. As a physician I feel I have a real moral
obligation to my patients and the people in the community to do every-
thing possible to improve the health of the people in Los Angeles. I
would argue very, very strongly against such legislation and against
this attempt to lay the groundwork for such legislation.
' ' Finally, my attorney points out that this action of the Los Angeles
County Medical Society in calling your committee to Los Angeles and
telling you who they want called as witnesses is in violation of the
Sherman-Clayton Act.
"Q. Is that all?
"A. I am afraid it was a long-winded answer, but sometimes I am
long winded with my patients.
"Q. I didn't mean to infer that you were long winded.
' ' A. Those are my grounds.
"Q. Those are your reasons?
"A. Yes.
"Q. Included in them, of course, is your invoking of the Fifth
Amendment to the Constitution of the United States ?
"A. I would like to re-emphasize the manner in which I invoked the
amendment.
"Q. You have already answered the question. If you wish to invoke
it, all right.
"A. I would like to say, Mr. Combs, it is important for people to
understand the use of the Fifth Amendment in no way implies guilt,
that this amendment was originated in English law as a result of
religious persecution which took place in Europe in the Middle Ages,
to protect innocent people, and the use of the Fifth Amendment to not
bear witness against one's self is an important part of our law and
rights, and the use of this is the thing which a person who is innocent
does to protect himself. I know very well I am thoroughly innocent of
any crime. I know that it is my obligation as a patriotic citizen to bring
out the facts that the Fifth Amendment is not something that guilty
people hide behind, but is something that innocent people use for their
protection and the protection of everybody else in the community.
"Q. Then you do invoke the Fifth Amendment?
"A. I certainly do.
156 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
"Q. You referred to an appearance before the House Committee on
Un-American Activities. Do you recall you were there identified by
one of the witnesses as a member of the Communist Party?
' ' A. I think my answer to that question, Mr. Combs, that the record
of those hearings — and you can get a transcript by writing to the Fed-
deral Government — would stand.
"Q. We have already done that, Dr. Perry. Mr. Marshall, for the
sake of your client in the event he is anxious to leave and I might add
for the sake of the committee also in the interests of time, may we have
a stipulation that in the event your client is asked questions concern-
ing his affiliation with or attendance at meetings of organizations that
have been characterized as subversive by either the federal agencies of
the Federal Government, or agencies of the State Government, that his
objections which have just been placed in the record will be deemed
applicable to each and all of such questions?
' ' Mr. Marshall : The doctor will answer your inquiry.
"The Witness: I would rather answer or state my grounds on indi-
vidual questions rather than making such a stipulation.
' ' Mr. Combs : You are in no hurry ?
"A. The call has been made. It was a patient and another doctor
will take care of it.
"Q. Then we have lots of time?
"A. Surely.
1 ' Chairman Burns : Mr. Combs, I would like the reporter to read
back the last question that was asked. I think it was did he ever hear
of the Association of Internes and Medical Students.
u (Whereupon the question referred to was read by the reporter.)
' ' Chairman Burns : In that question, doctor, which is merely a ques-
tion as to something which you may or may not have heard of, do you
believe that in answering it yes or no it will incriminate you in any
way?
"The Witness: Senator Burns, I think I recall a similar type of
question two years ago when I was called before the House Committee
on Un-American Activities. It is my understanding that the intent and
the meaning of the Fifth Amendment, or that provision of the Fifth
Amendment which provides that a person may not be forced to bear
witness against himself, and that use of the privilege against self
incrimination in no way implies guilt, that the sense of this amend-
ment requires that I not answer any such question, and to answer such
a question would of itself violate the rights against self incrimination
which are given me by this amendment to the Bill of Rights.
' ' Chairman Burns : The chair rules that you are wrong, that we do
not hold such views, and the reasons stated by you in refusing to answer
such questions are insufficient. The chair instructs you to answer this
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 157
question. Did you ever hear of an organization known as the Associa-
tion of Internes and Medical Students f
' ' Mr. Marshall : Senator Burns, will it be stipulated that the answer
which this witness gave to this question when it was first propounded
may be deemed to be his answer to the questions now propounded to
him by you and by this reference it will be deemed to be incorporated
in toto.
"Chairman Burns: So stipulated. Go ahead.
"Mr. Combs: The record will show that the stipulation has been
made, is that correct?
"Chairman Burns: That is correct.
"Mr. Marshall: Do you want to add something else, doctor?
' ' Mr. Combs : Is that satisfactory to you, Dr. Perry ?
"The Witness: Yes, it is.
' ' Chairman Burns : You also further stipulate, Mr. Marshall, in the
event questions are propounded to the witness and he refuses to answer
them that the same instructions and the same reasons stand, that he
has been given an instruction to answer them for the reasons stated and
that the excuses he furnishes are insufficient in the judgment of the
committee ?
"Mr. Marshall: Let's see if I understand it. Are you asking me to
stipulate, Senator, that in each case where the witness claims his con-
stitutional privilege that it will be deemed in each of those instances
that the committee has instructed him to answer ? We will so stipulate.
"Mr. Combs: And his reasons for refusing to answer are the same
as heretofore given.
' ' Mr. Marshall : Yes. And that his reasons for refusing to answer and
his grounds of privilege will be deemed to have been incorporated by
him by this reference in each instance.
"Mr. Combs: So stipulated. Is that satisfactory to you, Dr. Perry?
' ' Dr. Perry : These stipulations are confusing to a medical man, but
if it is all right with my attorney who happens to be a very good man it
is all right with me.
"Q. (By Mr. Combs) : Have you ever been a member of the Commu-
nist Party or the Communist Political Association?
"A. My answer to this question is as follows: I would refuse to
answer the question on the grounds as follows : first of all that this is a
typical question for a McCarthyite committee like yours to ask in order
to strike terror into the American people, to scare the American people
from saying what they think about issues, from talking freely with
their neighbors, from voting the way they want. As a patriotic Amer-
ican citizen I feel it is absolutely incumbent upon me to oppose every
attempt to bring Fascism into this country, which is the objective result
158 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
of questions like this asked by your committee and other committees,
and its inevitable result, unless people fight against it, of an inquisi-
tion such as you are holding here in Los Angeles this week.
"I believe very, very strongly in the democratic traditions of
America. I am sworn in my own conscience to uphold that. I will never
do anything to destroy the things which my ancestors fought for in this
country. I want to see a country which was founded by the ideals of
Tom Paine, by Abraham Lincoln and by Franklin D. Roosevelt. I don't
want to see an America that is a replica of Nazi Germany. I am
not cooperating with your committee or any other committee which
attempts to impose Fascism in America. I think this is the intent of
committees like yours. This is the primary moral reason for which I will
not answer this question or any other question of a similar nature.
"Secondly, I would like to state this question violates my rights of
freedom to speak, freedom to be silent, freedom to associate with people
and organizations, or not to associate with people or organizations,
which is contained in the First Amendment to the Bill of Rights, and is
contained in Article I, Section 9, of the California State Constitution.
"I will further refuse to answer the question because it is a very
deliberate attempt to expose me to the danger of a groundless and false
prosecution for alleged violation of federal or state law. Consequently
I avail myself of the constitutional right intended for the protection of
the innocent. I will emphasize again 'intended for.' It was intended
for the protection of the innocent and from whose use no inference at all
of guilt can be drawn.
' ' I now claim the privilege contained in the Fifth Amendment of the
Bill of Rights, which provides that you cannot compel me to be a wit-
ness against myself, and of the similar provision contained in Article
I, Section 13 of the Constitution of this State.
"I tried to make this clear in the beginning. It is important for
people to realize — I don't mean to drag out, to draw out these pro-
ceedings, but I believe the people in this room, the people who may read
about these proceedings in the press, should be reminded of the provi-
sions in the Bill of Rights. They are our history, they are English
history. Many countries in Europe have struggled to provide these
privileges so that there will be religious and political freedom in our
Country, and the rights of the people can be protected. I certainly will
not go along with you Senators in any attempt at all to destroy these
privileges. I think it would be very much better if you Senators were
using your time to investigate something else.
"Mr. Combs: Mr. Marshal, we did not object to your client giving
his reasons for refusing to answer questions which were pertinent, but
we ask you to admonish him. We did not ask him to advise the com-
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 159
mittee how to conduct its affairs, which borders a little on the imperti-
nent. This portion of his answer is completely nonresponsive. While we
are willing to let him give any legitimate reasons for refusing to answer
a question, we do not wish him to embark on a lecture to the committee
as to how to conduct its affairs. The committee has been conducting
these hearings for almost 16 years and should know something about
how they are operated.
' ' Mr. Marshall : The witness realizes that he is here today in the role
of a citizen called upon by this committee to come here and answer
questions. He felt, no doubt, that an additional reason for his position
is that the the time of the committee could better be given to other
important matters.
"Mr. Combs: I think that is a decision for the committee to make
and not this witness.
"Q. Have you concluded, Dr. Perry?
' ' A. Yes, I have concluded my answer to the question.
"Q. Have you ever been a member of the Los Angeles County Medi-
cal Association ?
' ' A. No, I have not been a member of the Los Angeles County Medi-
cal Association.
" Q. You have no hesitancy in answering that question ?
"A. No, I don't. I applied for membership several years ago. I hap-
pen to have extremely excellent professional qualifications. I have all
of the high medical qualifications required for membership. My appli-
cation was turned down after
" Q. When was it turned down ?
"A. It was turned down approximately in the summer of 1953, after
a delay of some 18 months in processing my application. I was given
no reason for being turned down. All letters sent by me to the County
Medical Society asking for a reason for refusal have never been given
the courtesy of a reply.
"Q. Have you ever been a member of an organization known as the
Civil Rights Congress ?
"A. My answer to that question, Mr. Combs, would be that I decline
to answer the question for the grounds previously stated. I am not
taking the time by going into that. I think that is sufficiently clear.
"Q. Thank you. Have you ever been a member of the Medical Divi-
sion of the Arts, Sciences and Professions Council?
"A. I would adopt as my answer the grounds previously stated and
decline to answer this question.
"Q. Have you ever been a member of the Young Communist League?
"A. I would give you the same declination to answer on the grounds
previously stated.
160 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
"Q. Is it not a fact that while a student at the University of Cali-
fornia you were active in, or an officer of an organization known as the
Association of Internes and Medical Students?
"A. I am afraid that some of your sleuths have given you incorrect
information, Mr. Combs. I have never been a student at the University
of Southern California. I was a member of the faculty at the University
of Southern California.
' ' Q. What year ?
"A.I was a member of the faculty — you will have to excuse my not
remembering the exact dates.
"Q. Approximately?
"A. Approximately 1948 to 1952. That is very rough. I have never
been a student there. I was a student at the Harvard Medical School.
"I might add incidentally as a result of the work of this top clique
of the County Medical Society, I was discharged from the faculty of the
University of Southern California without reason because the dean
thanked me for the extremely good service I had given and said I was
one of the finest teachers that they had.
"Q. Dean Raulston?
"A. That is right. He was sorry to lose me. I had been teaching
medical students pediatrics. I enjoyed it and had a lot to offer them.
The effect of an inquisition like this is apparently to decrease the
standards of medical education in Los Angeles. As long as the faculties
of our medical schools like U. S. C. and U. C. L. A. School of Medicine
— there is a reign of terror and nobody dares express medical views
they think, and they are not likely to get as good a medical education
as I did at Harvard, which has a good medical tradition. In the U. C. L.
A. Medical School, whose Dean testified here yesterday, I believe this
reign of terror is likely to inhibit the quality of medical research. In a
community with four or five million people we need good medical
schools where citizens can be taught well to be excellent doctors and
where good research is turned out. One of the great lacks in Los
Angeles is that our medical schools are not having a better program
and turning out more research men of the type of good medical re-
search that is done outside of Los Angeles. Our community needs to
be producing real advance and medical knowledge to help the people.
By dismissal from the faculty of the University of Southern Califor-
nia for being a man of principle is exactly the sort of thing which will
result in less well qualified doctors being turned out by U. S. C. Med-
ical School. I would like to see good doctors turned out by all medical
schools in Los Angeles.
"Q. Is that your answer to the question?
"A. "Would you repeat the question? I am afraid in my answer —
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 16]
" Q. Have you forgotten it ?
"A. Not that I have forgotten it, but I may have lost sight of the
individual words. Unfortunately, I am used to talking to mothers and
fathers about behavior problems of children. I am sometimes long
winded.
"Q. You are used to talking in other organizations, are you
not? For example, at the membership convention of the Arts, Sciences
and Professions Council at Stanley Hall, December 2, 1950, at which
you were a featured speaker?
"A. You are asking a couple of questions. May we take them one at
a time?
"Q. You gave us a long winded answer to the last question. Now
you don't remember exactly what it was.
"A. I would specifically request that you repeat the last question
and go on to the next one.
"Mr. Combs: I think I am satisfied with your answer.
"Mr. Marshall: Wait a minute. For the record, the witness wants to
make sure he claimed his constitutional privilege. We started out on
the question : was this while you were a student at U. S. C, were you
a member of such-and-such?
"Mr. Combs: Member of officer of the Association of Internes and
Medical Students.
"Mr. Marshall: The witness answered the question as to whether or
not he was a student.
' ' Mr. Combs : He said he was a member of the faculty.
"Mr. Marshall: Yes, he said he was a member of the faculty. Is the
rest of the question still pending?
"Chairman Burns: It has not been answered.
' ' The Witness : You see, that is what I wanted to know. It is a com-
pound question.
"Mr. Combs: Would you answer it now?
"Mr. Marshall: Shall we break it down?
"Mr. Combs : No. I will reframe it. It can be answered very simply.
"Q. While you were at U. S. C. as a member of the faculty, or in
any other capacity, were you a member of an organization known as
the Association of Internes and Medical Students?
"A. I decline to answer this question. I believe you understand what
these grounds are.
"Q. I understand perfectly.
"A. All right.
"Q. Were you at one time national president of the Association of
Internes and Medical Students!
"A. I would decline to answer the question on the same grounds.
162 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
"Q. I hand you now what purports to be a photostatic copy of an
article entitled, AIMS at U. S. C. by Joyce Fielding, Corresponding
Editor, it being entitled 'Progress Notes.' It is only two pages. Will
you tell me whether or not you can testify from your own knowledge
if the material contained therein is substantially correct?
"A. Mr. Combs, I have glanced over this photostat that you have
handed me. In my opinion this is simply another question, but for the
information of the audience here it is a photostat of an article about
the formation of a chapter of AIMS at the Southern California Medical
School. It seems to me it is another question dealing with an organiza-
tion.
"As I mentioned before, I feel that the First Amendment gives me
the right, and every citizen the right, not to discuss affiliations with
organizations or individuals. I would decline to answer on those
grounds, and on the other grounds previously stated.
"Mr. Marshall: Mr. Combs, will you identify the document for the
record ?
"Mr. Combs : I did. It is entitled 'Progress Notes/ AIMS at U. S. C. by
Joyce Fielding, Corresponding Editor.
"Mr. Marshall: Thank you.
"Mr. Combs: It is a page from a publication which I understand
was issued by AIMS. Do you know whether or not that is true? Was
there such a publication?
"A. I think this is another modification of a question previously
asked. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously stated. As you see,
I have been given excellent legal instruction by my attorney.
' ' Chairman Burns : That is a good answer.
"Mr. Marshall: Was that remark for the record, Senator?
"Chairman Burns: I will make it so. I think your client is afraid
to answer anything.
"The Witness: Senator Burns, I would respectfully like to say I
don't think that this is a fair characterization of me. There are a lot
of things I would like to talk about. For instance, one of the things
which was brought out, one of the heinous crimes I was accused of
committing by one of the county medical association sleuths the other
day was that I took active part in combating discrimination in the
hospitals of this community. I would be happy to say that I feel that
there is a lot of discrimination against Negroes, Mexican-Americans
and Jews in our hospitals, both discrimination against doctors and
nurses of these minority groups, but particularly against patients.
I have no hesitation in telling you I am strongly opposed to it and I
think that every doctor has a moral obligation to fight against such
discrimination.
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 163
' ' Chairman Burns : Are you now on the staffs of any hospitals that
practice discrimination ?
• ' The Witness : I think my answer to this, Senator Burns, would be :
in any hospital staff where I serve, where discrimination against pa-
tients or doctors comes to my attention, I would do everything in my
power to fight against it. I think it is extremely important that segre-
gation of negro patients apart from white patients, which is practiced
in a number of the leading Los Angeles hospitals today, should be
ended. If the leadership of the county medical society would spend
more time working to end this discrimination I think they would be
doing a real service to the community. Discrimination is not only
entirely out of tradition —
"Chairman Burns: Just a moment, please. Mr. Marshall, I don't like
to be rude to any witness before this committee. The question was
simply: Doctor, have you been a member of a staff of any hospital
that you know of that practices discrimination? The answer is either
yes or no. If you don't want to answer, say, 'I refuse to answer on
the grounds previously stated, ' and get on with the business.
"Mr. Marshall: In my opinion the question, with all due respect to
you, Senator, would not be a question to which the privileges would
attach. Moreover, it is asked in such a way as in my humble judgment
would call for an answer which the witness must respectfully give to
you, being satisfied that you were in search of information on the
subject. He did answer the question. He will be happy to give you
his views on the subject of discrimination in the hospitals, in medical
facilities of this kind, if you care to examine him further.
' ' Charman Burns : I will say that I agree with his views on discrim-
ination, but that is not the question. The question was has he ever been
a member of any staff of any hospital in Los Angeles which practices
discrimination among the patients ? That is simple.
' ' Mr. Marshall : That calls for a matter of personal knowledge.
■ ' Chairman Burns : That 's what I want to know about.
"Mr. Marshall: Hospitals to which he was attached may have prac-
ticed discrimination, but I think you can tell from the tenor of the
answer of the witness that if he ever came across any instance of it
he would object most heatedly. He agrees with you that discrimination
is wrong and that segregation in the care of persons needing medical
and hospital facilities in this community ought to stop, but it has not
stopped.
"Chairman Burns : It still does not answer the question. If he doesn't
want to answer the question, he may say so, it is all right. I am not
making an issue out of it. I thought we were going to have an instance
or a specific case of some hospital practicing discrimination.
"The Witness: I will give you an example.
164 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
' ' Chairman Burns : No, I don 't want an example.
"The Witness: You have asked the question.
' ' Chairman Burns : I want to know if you were ever a member of any
hospital staff that you know of that practiced discrimination? Let's
have that first.
' ' The Witness : Look, Senator Burns, it seems to me that if you are
interested in knowing factual information about hospitals where dis-
criminatory practices have taken place and are taking place, I would
certainly be glad to give you the information. I am not an expert on
it. I know some of it.
' ' If, on the other hand, the purpose of your question is to ask me on
what hospital staffs, or of what hospital staffs am I now a member, with
two things in mind: one, to bring public pressure to bear on these
hospital staffs, or, secondly, with the intent which I feel is obvious
in your mind of trying to get me fired from additional hospital staffs,
as an un-American activities committee was successful in doing, I can-
not go along with it.
"If you are honestly interested in knowing about discrimination in
hospitals, in doing something to end it, because this is in accord with
the wonderful decision of the Supreme Court ending segregation in the
schools — it is necessary for the health of all of us. When one group
in the population is discriminated against healthwise, the health of all
people suffer.
' ' Chairman Burns : We don 't want a lecture, Doctor, you are giving
us a lecture.
"The Witness: If you are honestly interested in doing something
about discrimination I will be glad to help you and be glad to give you
information. If you are not honestly interested in this and are simply
trying to find a way to blacklist me additionally, how can I go along
with your plans ?
"Chairman Burns: We object to the witness sitting in judgment on
the activities of the committee. We are here to gather information but
you don 't want to give it to us.
"The Witness: If you are interested in evidence on discrimination
there is a good pamphlet called For a Better Brotherhood, which is a
survey of discriminatory practices in the hospitals of Los Angeles. It
includes a statement about the case of Mrs. Rambo.
"Q. (By Mr. Combs) : Isn't that entitled Yours for a Better Brother-
hood?
"A. I think that is the correct title. I haven't read it for a number
of years.
"Q. By whom was it issued?
"A. I don't mean to continue fencing with you, Mr. Combs.
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 165
"Q. You opened it up. I didn't.
"A. I think that is a provocative question. I will have to decline
to answer on the grounds I have given to a number of other questions.
"Q. I was sure you would, Doctor. We have a copy of it and it will
be testified to fully by other witnesses later on.
"A. It should be made public. It is something the public should read.
"Q. It will be made public by all means.
"A. Incidentally, I think Dr. Kolodny, who was a witness before
you yesterday, testified there was no discrimination at the Queen of
Angels Hospital. This pamphlet, according to my remembrance, con-
tains the case of Mrs. Rambo, who was segregated and was very badly
hurt by the discrimination which took place and still, incidentally,
takes place at the Queen of Angels Hospital. Negro patients are not
allowed to be placed in the same room with white patients at the
Queen of Angels Hospital today. I believe there are other hospitals
where this goes on. All of us should work to end that.
' ' Chairman Burns : Was Mrs. Rambo a negro ?
"The Witness: Incidentally, I think Dr. Kolodny stated there was
no discrimination. A suit was filed by Mrs. Rambo against Queen of
Angels Hospital and the Queen of Angels Hospital, recognizing that
they had discriminated and that they were practicing discrimination,
settled out of court for the statutory minimum.
"Q. (By Mr. Combs) : Which was that?
"A. I understand that this statutory minimum is $100 and the
cost of the suit.
"Q. Do you have any personal knowledge of the Rambo incident?
"A. Senators, and Mr. Combs
"Q. The question was whether or not you have any personal knowl-
edge of the Rambo incident ?
"A. The answer is that my knowledge of the Rambo incident is
gained from reading the accounts of the case; my attorney informed
me this morning that a suit was pressed by another attorney in this
town.
"Q. That is all hearsay as far as you are concerned?
"Mr. Marshall: I don't think the court record is hearsay, Mr. Combs.
' ' Mr. Combs : He testified you told him.
' ' Mr. Marshall : That is right.
"Mr. Combs: That, of course, is hearsay, isn't it?
"Mr. Marshall: Yes — it is kind of silly hearsay.
"Mr. Combs: I think so, too, I agree with you.
"Mr. Marshall: I could send over and get a certified copy of the
proceedings or you could subpena the file, why don't you do that?
166 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
It is Ramoo v. Queen of Angels. Send a subpena over, they will bring
the file over and it will show what I have stated to you.
"Mr. Combs: My question was whether or not your client had
any personal knowledge.
"Mr. Marshall: He was not actually there, he never gave any such
impression.
"Mr. Combs: I know he was not. I am going to ask Dr. Perry
about a series of meetings with the dates. It is completely immaterial
to me, as long as you have enough time, to say whether or not you
want to go into these in great detail or whether you invoke the stipula-
tion that has heretofore been made.
' ' Mr. Marshall : May I suggest you show the questions to the witness
if you have a long list.
"Mr. Combs: If I showed the questions to you —
' ' The "Witness : No, thanks.
"Mr. Combs: I have no such savage intent.
"Mr. Marshall: If you have a long list of meetings and dates and
lump them together and let him have it with one blast we may save
some time.
"Mr. Combs: I cannot lump them together, but in an effort to save
time I will go down the list of 10, I think, Mr. Marshall.
"Mr. Marshall: Just 10?
"Mr. Combs: Yes.
' ' The Witness : May I consult with counsel ?
"Mr. Marshall: The witness agrees with counsel he should not be
shotgunned.
' ' The Witness : I don 't want to be blasted off here.
"Mr. Combs: You are in no danger.
' ' Mr. Marshall : Let 's take the first question, one shot at a time.
' ' Mr. Combs : I think that is better.
"Q. Is it not a fact that on the second day of December in 1950
you were the featured speaker at the membership convention of the
Arts, Sciences and Professions Council in Los Angeles?
"A. I think my answer to that question would be that I decline
to answer the question on the grounds which I previously stated.
"Q. Is it not a fact that on the twelfth of August, 1951, at 9620
Monte Mar Drive, which was the residence — well, I won't name him.
Strike the question. On that date, were you not a speaker at a meeting
of the Medical Division of the Arts, Sciences and Professions Council
at 9620 Monte Mar Drive and that the subject of your address was,
'Yours for a Genuine Brotherhood?'
"A. I would decline to answer the question on the grounds pre-
viously stated.
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 167
"Q. Which is the name of the publication to which you referred here
a moment ago.
"A. You have informed me that this is the name of the pamphlet I
referred to.
"Q. You said, For a Genuine Brotherhood, and I corrected you and
said it was, Yours for a Genuine Brotherhood, and you said it was correct.
"A. I said I thought it probably was correct, but it was a number of
years since I read the pamphlet. I am sure you are more recently
familiar with it.
"Q. Is it not a fact that on the seventeenth day of August, 1951, at
7410 Sunset Boulevard, you spoke before a meeting of the Medical Divi-
sion of the Arts, Sciences and Professions Council?
"A. In response to this question I cannot help but say, Mr. Combs,
that it seems as if these leading members of the county medical society
have been devoting a great deal of their time to counter-espionage. If
they would put in more time taking care of patients and toward trying
to take an active stand fighting smog, which is the major menace to the
health of the community, and toward fighting discrimination as talked
about before, I think they would better spend their time, but I would
refuse to answer the question on the grounds previously stated.
"Q. Is it not a fact that on the twenty-fifth day of February, 1952,
you attended and spoke at a meeting of an organization known as The
Committee for Medical Freedom?
" A. I am not quite familiar with all these different names of organ-
izations. Is this the committee which came to the defense of the three
doctors who were fired from the Cedars of Lebanon Hospital because of
their principled stand on various issues ? It is my recollection that there
was a committee which attempted not only to defend the rights of
these doctors, but particularly to defend the interests of the people
in the community. It is my recollection that the nephritis clinic for
treating charity patients with kidney disease was discontinued at the
Cedars of Lebanon Hospital as the result of the dismissal of one of these
doctors, and, as a result, people with kidney diseases were turned loose
to find care as best they could. As I recall, the committee was active in
an effort to try to get this unwarranted firing by the Cedars of Lebanon
Hospital reversed.
"Q. Do you recall whether or not you attended such a meeting as I
have described on the dates I have mentioned?
"A. Mr. Combs, I will decline to answer this question as I did the
previous ones on the grounds already given.
"Q. Is it not a fact that on the twenty-seventh day of February,
1952, you attended a meeting of the Medical Division of the Arts,
Sciences and Professions Council at a residence located at 109 North
Highland Avenue in the City of Los Angeles?
168 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
"A. I think this is a similar question to those previously asked me
and I would decline to answer on the grounds previously given.
"Q. Is it not a fact that on the fourteenth day of June, 1952, you
attended a meeting of the Arts, Sciences and Professions Council Equal
Rights Conference at the Alexandria Hotel in Los Angeles?
"A. You keep asking about the Arts, Sciences and Professions
Council; I would still have to give you the same declination to answer
for the same reasons previously outlined.
"Q. Did you attend a meeting at the Alexandria Hotel last
Saturday ?
' ' Mr. Marshall : Was there a meeting conducted there, and if so, what
is the name of the organization?
"Q. By Mr. Combs: Citizens Committee to Preserve American Free-
doms attended by approximately 450 people.
"A. I imagine with a title like Citizens Committee to Preserve Amer-
ican Freedoms it would definitely be considered subversive by your
committee, so I would therefore have to refuse to answer on the grounds
previously stated.
"Q. And that is your answer?
' ' A. That is my answer.
"Q. Is it not a fact that on the sixteenth day of January, 1953, you
attended a meeting of the Medical Division of the Arts, Sciences and
Division Council at 1406 South St. Andrews Place in Los Angeles, at
which time you were a speaker?
"A. I would have to decline to answer on the grounds previously
stated. I again admire the wonderful sleuthing of the county medical
association. You people should really employ them for your committee.
"Q. Do you know actually that that information came from the
county medical association, Dr. Perry, or are you trying to be facetious ?
You have no personal knowledge —
"A. No.
"Q. — of any kind about where this information came from, have
you, really?
"A. Mr. Combs, I certainly don't intend to be facetious — if you will
excuse me for smiling or laughing sometimes — because the repetition of
questions gets to the point where it is really humorous. I intend no
facetiousness toward this committee. It is my belief that this small
clique of mis-leaders, and I use the term advisedly, in the county med-
ical society, the people who don't have the backing of the great majority
of the county medical society, that they are actually responsible for
calling your committee down to Los Angeles this week, that they are
planning the entire affair, they told you exactly what they want you to
do, that they do it for their own selfish interests.
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 169
"Q. That is your belief?
' ' A. That is my belief.
' ' Q. Do you have any evidence as to that ?
"A. From reading the newspapers I couldn't help but see that it
was announced, that this whole thing was planned by the county
medical society, that it was planned by them for at least a year, and
they requested you to come down here.
"Q. The letter of request we introduced into evidence, but if you
will attend some of the subsequent sessions here you will readily see
how completely erroneous your assumption is — that the facts that are
being set forth in these meetings came to us from many so-called
counter-espionage units of the county medical association, which we
intend to prove, at least to our satisfaction
' ' Mr. Marshall : I was here at part of the session. I thought I heard
a couple of witnesses telling you about the medical society officers
attending meetings, and they were testifying about it.
"The Witness: I read the Los Angeles Times for yesterday morning.
It states that Dr. J. de los Reyes, who I believe is vice president of
the county medical association — I think he calls himself the Senator
Joseph McCarthy of the medical association — he testified he, himself,
personally heard me give a talk about the importance of fighting dis-
crimination in medicine. As a result of reading these accounts in the
newspaper— I haven't attended any hearings up to now, and I
haven't seen the official transcript, but I think everybody in the com-
munity can't help from feeling that actually these few mis-leaders
of the county medical society have been at least been doing some of
the sleuthing.
"Q. (By Mr. Combs) : There is no question about attending those
meetings, but those are not included on any of the dates I have ques-
tioned you about, and I won't refer to any matters that will come
before the committee from now on. I anticipate the meeting will be
covered in great detail.
"A. I see.
"Q. I asked you about the meeting of January 16th. On February
7, 1953, is it not a fact that you attended a meeting sponsored by an
organization known as the Committee for the Protection of Foreign
Born at Park Manor here in Los Angeles, and that you spoke there
on that occasion?
"A. I would have to answer as I did to one previous question, that
the Committee for the Protection of tire Foreign Born, in the eyes
of a committee like yours, or of any McCarthy committee, must be
an extremely subversive organization. It is my feeling that Mexican-
Americans and Americans of various sorts in the eyes of people who
have the beliefs that Senator McCarthy does, that these people have
170 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
no rights, that the foreign born have no rights, any American, even
if it were someone like myself whose ancestors came over here on the
Mayflower, any American who stands up for the rights of the foreign
born or the Braceros who come to California and are exploited on the
farms in the Central Valley, must be subversive. Therefore, I would
certainly have to decline to answer this question about attending a
meeting for the protection of the foreign born on the grounds previ-
ously stated.
"Q. Do you know if that was included in the list of organizations
declared by the Attorney General of the United States to be subversive ?
"A. My counsel informs me the best evidence is the list of the At-
torney General.
" Q. I asked if you knew ?
"A. My answer is I don't know. I don't follow these things. I am
a practicing pediatrician. But knowing what I know about your un-
American committee, I would assume you consider it and I would
not take any chance of subjecting myself to prosecution by answer-
ing it.
"Q. We don't want your assumption, Dr. Perry. The question was
whether or not you know. Would you answer, please.
"A. I am not a legal expert, I don't know personally.
"Q. That is right.
"A. Whether it is on the list or not, but I am sure you could find
out or I could find out if I wanted, but my reasonable assumption, and
in protecting myself I have to make reasonable assumptions, that it
probably is listed or will be if it is not listed now ; that any committee
which wants to protect the rights of any minority group in this coun-
try would be certainly listed by your committee and similar commit-
tees as subversive; and I would certainly not answer any questions
which you might ask me about it,
"Q. For the reasons you have already given?
' ' A. That is correct.
"Mr. Combs: That is all.
"Mr. Marshall : Is that all, sir ?
"Mr. Combs: That is all.
' ' The Witness : Am I excused ?
' ' Chairman Burns : You are excused.
TESTIMONY OF DR. JACK FLASHER, M.D.
The testimony of the next witness, Dr. Flasher, is of particular
interest. It tells a story, half hidden, discernible more from what the
witness refused to say than by what little testimony was elicited from
him. His demeanor on the witness stand and the circumstances under
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 171
which he appeared — all of these elements combined to place this wit-
ness somewhat apart from many of the others.
"Q. (By Mr. Combs) : Your name is Jack Flasher?
' ' A. That is true.
"Q. F-1-a-s-h-e-r?
"A. That is true.
"Q. You are a physician and surgeon licensed to practice your pro-
fession in California?
"A. Yes, I am.
"Q. Dr. Flasher, where did you take your medical degree?
"A. University of Minnesota.
"Q. You were born in 1919, were you not?
"A. That is true.
"Q. How long have you practiced in California, approximately?
"A. I have been here approximately seven years.
"Q. Would you give the reporter your professional and residence
addresses, please?
"A. My residence is 652 Bienveneda, Pacific Palisades. My princi-
pal office is 15247 Sunset Boulevard, Pacific Palisades.
"Q. Dr. Flasher, do you have with you any notes which you took
at any prior conference that you and I had?
"Mr. Marshall: Just a moment. May I have that question read?
(Question read.)
' ' The Witness : I decline to answer on the ground that I now claim
the privilege contained in the Fifth Amendment of the Bill of Rights
which provides that you cannot compel me to be a witness against
myself, and Article I, Section 13 of the Constitution of this State.
"Mr. Combs: Mr. Marshall, will it be stipulated in other questions
which I may ask your client concerning his affiliation with or his at-
tendance at meetings of organizations that have been described by the
official federal or state agencies as subversive, that the same objections
will be deemed to apply?
' ' Mr. Marshall : It will be so stipulated if it will also be understood
that the witness will be understood to have declined to answer upon
certain additional constitutional grounds which I shall read very
briefly.
"Mr. Combs: And directed to answer by the chairman?
"Mr. Marshall: And directed to answer by the chairman.
"Chairman Burns: Would you read them, please?
"Mr. Marshall: The additional grounds upon which the witness
will decline to answer the questions in the category which you have
described are, that he claims : the protection accorded him by the First
Amendment of the Bill of Rights, and Article I, Section 9 of the
Constitution of this State; and he claims the privileges and rights
172 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
accorded him by the Fourth Amendment of the Bill of Rights and
Article I, Section 19 of the Constitution of this State ; in addition
to likewise claiming the privileges and rights accorded to him by
Article I, Section 13 of the Constitution of this State; and the Four-
teenth Amendment of the Bill of Rights, and Article I, Section 13 of
the Constitution of this State.
"Mr. Combs: Mr. Marshall, I am going to ask a category of ques-
tions which I don't believe would be covered by your stipulation. I
just say that in all fairness because I want to go into a matter that I
don't believe you intended your stipulation to cover.
"Q. Dr. Flasher, is it not a fact that you and I had a conference
in my room at the Hotel Statler a few days ago?
"A. I decline to answer on the grounds of all the previous consti-
tutional guarantees.
"Q. Is it not a fact that you came to my room at the Statler pur-
suant to a telephone conversation which you made to me?
"A. I decline to answer upon the same grounds.
"Q. Is it not a fact that as a result of our conference there you
told me that if I asked you under oath at this hearing whether or not
you were now or had ever been a member of the Communist Party,
your answer would be no?
"A. I decline to answer upon the same grounds.
"Q. Is it not a further fact that at that conference, after we had
lunch downstairs and had returned to the room and there was no
one else present but you and me, that I agreed with you that I would
not ask you to give us the names of any other persons except yourself,
but I would merely ask you whether or not you had attended certain
meetings of a certain organization, and you agreed that you would
do that providing I would give you a copy of the questions that I
intended to ask you, and that I did give you a copy of the questions
which you took with you, and that I retained a copy. I now hand
you my handwritten questions, the ones which I retained, and ask you
whether or not that is not a full, true and correct copy of the same
identical questions that I gave you on that occasion. I will read them
into the record, Counsel, so that you won't have to copy them at this
time.
"Mr. Marshall: I just wanted to make a note. I hand the document
back to Counsel.
' ' The Witness : I decline to answer upon the same grounds.
' ' Mr. Combs : I now wish to read the questions into the record.
' ' ' Question No. 1 : Basic information. I have already asked that
question concerning the medical background of the witness and
his practice in California.
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 173
" 'My second question: Did you ever hear of ASP, Arts, Sci-
ences and Professions Council?
' ' ' Third question : Did you ever affiliate with the Arts, Sciences
and Professions Council? Then a note — 50-51.
' ' ' The next question : Card dues, Medical Division.
" 'Fourth question: Meetings attended, where held, specific
meetings and subject matter.
' ' ' Fifth question : Now a member of the Arts, Sciences and Pro-
fessions Council. Stopped paying dues as of January 1, 1952. Why
did he quit ? Because of two reasons : " I was afraid that continued
affiliation with an organization regarded as subversive by some
agencies would be detrimental to me."
' ' ' Six : Did you suspect some of the leaders of the Arts, Sciences
and Professions Council might be Communists ideologically ? ' ' Yes,
I think some of the leaders may have been Communists, ideolog-
ically. ' '
" 'Seven: Did you form this opinion from what was said at
the meetings attended by them? "Yes."
" 'Eight: Did you ever join the Communist Party or the Amer-
ican Youth for Democracy, the Young Communist League or the
Communist Political Association? I have no indication in my notes
as to what the witness told me he would answer, but I am positive
in my recollection that he said his answer would be no to each and
all of those questions. '
"Q. Is it not a further fact, Dr. Flasher, that after that conference
was held you telephoned me and said you had discussed the matter with
a person whose name you did not give, but you said he was a progres-
sive attorney, but you were not then sure whether or not you could
go through with your understanding with me?
"A. I decline to answer upon the same grounds.
"Mr. Combs: That is all.
"Mr. Marshall: Is the witness excused, Mr. Combs?
"Mr. Combs: Yes.
STIPULATION COVERING TESTIMONY OF
DR. MORRIS R. FEDER, M.D.
"Chairman Burns: Is Mr. Marshall in the room?
"Mr. Marshall: Yes, sir.
' ' Chairman Burns : The witness we were going to have is gone ?
"Mr. Marshall: Yes.
"Chairman Burns: May I refer to the agreement that we had, Mr.
Marshall ?
' ' Mr. Marshall : Yes. Will you state it, Mr. Combs ?
174 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
"Mr. Combs: Let the record show that immediately after the last
witness, Dr. Jack Flasher, had finished his testimony, Mr. Daniel Mar-
shall and I had a discussion concerning the call of another of his clients,
Dr. Morris R. Feder, a physician; that Dr. Feder received an emer-
gency call and had to leave ; that I agreed with his attorney, Mr. Mar-
shall, on a stipulation which provides that if I would ask Dr. Feder
on the stand under oath if he were now or had ever been a member of
the Communist Party, and asked him questions concerning his member-
ship in or attendance at meetings of an organization described as
subversive by any state or federal agency, that he would decline to
answer each and all of such questions by invoking the Fifth Amend-
ment to the Constitution of the United States and for such other rea-
sons as may be detailed in the record by his counsel, Mr. Marshall. Does
that cover it?
Mr. Marshall: It covers it, Counsel. It will be so stipulated. The
additional grounds for declining to answer the questions in the category
which you have described are as follows : the First Amendment of the
Bill of Rights, Article I, Section 9 of the Constitution of this State ; the
Fourth Amendment of the Bill of Rights, and Article I, Section 19, of
the California Constitution; Fifth Amendment of the Bill of Rights
in its provision that a person cannot be compelled to be a witness
against himself, and Article I, Section 13, of the Constitution of this
State; the additional grounds are the Fourteenth Amendment to the
Bill of Rights, and Article I, Section 13, of the Constitution of this
State.
"Mr. Combs: Now, the first question I would have asked the witness
consists of the statement which appears in the Los Angeles County
Medical Association Directory to the effect that he is engaged in gen-
eral practice, that he graduated from the U. S. C. Medical School in
1935, and that he was born in 1910, that he was licensed to practice his
profession in California in 1935, that he resides at 421 North Soto
Street, Los Angeles 33, that he is engaged in general practice. Will
that be so stipulated, Mr. Marshall?
"Mr. Marshall: It will be so stipulated, subject to the limitations
on biographical and other data of the witness.
"Mr. Combs: Very well.
"Mr. Marshall: I don't know what school he graduated from, but I
assume you got it out of the Medical Directory?
"Mr. Combs: I got it out of the Medical Directory, which has his
picture in connection with the article.
"Mr. Marshall: He has a very handsome face.
"Mr. Combs: Yes.
"Mr. Marshall: Will you stipulate to that?
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 175
■ ' Mr. Combs : Yes. He is a very nice looking- fellow. The next ques-
tion is whether or not he is now or has ever been a member of the Com-
munist Party?
"Mr. Marshall: His response would be
"Mr. Combs: His response would be that he declines to answer for
the reasons heretofore given.
"Mr. Marshall: So stipulated.
' ' Mr. Combs : The next question is whether or not he has ever been
an officer in the American Peace Crusade ?
"Mr. Marshall: The same decimation upon the stipulated grounds.
"Mr. Combs: The next question is whether or not he has been a
financial contributor to an organization known as the Civil Bights
Congress ?
"Mr. Marshall: The same declination, the same grounds and the
same stipulation.
"Mr. Combs: The next question is whether or not he was identified
as a member of the Communist Party by a witness before the House
Committee on Un-American Activities?
"Mr. Marshall: Same declination, same grounds, same stipulation.
"Mr. Combs: The next question is whether or not he is a member of
the Medical Division of the Arts, Sciences and Professions Council!
"Mr. Marshall: Same declination, same grounds, same stipulation.
' ' Mr. Combs : The next question would be whether or not he is now
and for several years past has been a subscriber to a publication known
as the Daily People's World?
"Mr. Marshall: Same declination, same grounds, same stipulation.
' ' Mr. Combs : The next series of questions would be as follows : is it
not a fact that he attended a meeting of the Arts, Sciences and Pro-
fessions Council, Medical Division on September 7, 1951, at 109 North
Highland Avenue, Los Angeles?
"Mr. Marshall: Same declination, same grounds, same stipulation.
"Mr. Combs: Which in fact was the residence of the witness, Dr.
Morris Feder, Mr. Marshall?
"Mr. Marshall: Same declination, same grounds, same stipulation.
' ' Mr. Combs : Is it not a fact that he attended a meeting of the Arts,
Sciences and Professions Council, Medical Division, which was held in
his home at the same address, 109 North Highland Avenue, on the 20th
day of January, 1952?
"Mr. Marshall: Same declination, same grounds, same stipulation.
"Mr. Combs: Is it not a fact that he also attended in his home a
meeting of the Arts, Sciences and Professions Council, Medical Divi-
sion, on the 27th day of February, 1952 ?
"Mr. Marshall: Same declination, same grounds, same stipulation.
176 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
"Mr. Combs: Is it not a final fact that on the fourth day of May,
1952, he attended a Constitutional Rights Dinner at the Hollywood
Athletic Club, sponsored by the Arts, Sciences and Professions Council,
at which William Schneiderman, the convicted Organizer for the 13th
District of the Communist Party of the United States, and Ben Dobbs,
a Communist functionary, were honored guests?
"Mr. Marshall: Same declination, same grounds, same stipulation.
"Mr. Combs: That is all.
' ' Mr. Marshall : May the witness be excused ?
"Mr. Combs: The witness may be excused.
"Chairman Burns: Are you coming back this afternoon?
"Mr. Marshall: It would depend on the schedule of witnesses.
' ' Mr. Combs : Don 't you have other witnesses ?
"Mr. Marshall: Yes, I do.
"Chairman Burns: The committee will staud in recess to the hour
of 1.30 this afternoon.
TESTIMONY OF MARTIN HALL
"Q. (By Chairman Burns) : Is Mr. Marshall your counsel?
"A. That is right.
"Chairman Burns: Let the record show that the witness has as his
counsel, Mr. Marshall. Would you give your name and address, please ?
"Mr. Marshall: Daniel G. Marshall, 1151 South Broadway.
"Chairman Burns: Mr. Hall, will you state your full name and
address.
"A. My name is Martin Hall, I live at 966| Palm Avenue, Los
Angeles 46.
"Q. (By Mr. Combs) : Los Angeles?
"A. Los Angeles.
"Q. Are you a native of Germany, Mr. Hall?
"A. That is right.
"Q. How long have you resided in the United States?
"A. Since 1937.
"Q. Are you an American citizen?
"A. Correct.
"Q. By naturalization?
"A. Yes.
"Q. When were you naturalized?
"A. In 1945, in Los Angeles.
"Q. Were you ever known by any other name than Martin Hall?
"A. Yes. My original name is a different one because I changed my
name legally, by order of the Cook County Court in Chicago in 1938.
"Q. Was your name originally Karl Adolph Herman Jacobs?
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 177
"A. Carl Adolph Rudolph Herman.
"Q. Pardon?
"A. Carl Adolph Rudolph Herman Jacobs.
"Q. Thank you.
"A. I would like tot explain why I have changed my name, if I may.
"Q. Surely.
"A. I was coming to this Country as a refugee from Hitler Germany
as a result of my opposition to the policies of Hitler. When I arrived
here I still had some close relatives living in Germany. Of course, I was
very eager to protect them from the kind of persecution that was going
on at the time. My parents were living there, and the family of my
wife. It did not help the family of my wife. My wife was Jewish. The
whole family was wiped out, but I at least saved my parents. This is
the reason I changed my name legally, in order to protect these people
who were close to me.
"Q. In what part of Germany did they reside?
"A. My parents resided at Thuringa, which is in the middle part of
Germany.
"Q. Do you have a daughter named Ruth Anna?
"A. Yes.
"Q. Born in Berlin September 20, 1927?
"A. Yes.
' ' Q. She came to the United States in 1948 ?
"A. Pardon me. Would you repeat the question, please?
"Q. I asked if you had a daughter by the name of Ruth Anna who
was born in Berlin, Germany, September 20, 1927, and who came to
this Country in 1948. I think you answered the first part of the
question.
"A. That is correct, yes.
"Q. She did come here about 1948?
"A. Yes.
"Q. Thank you. She was a student at U. C. L. A. for a time, was
she not?
"A. Yes, she has been.
"Q. Mr. Hall, how long have you resided in California?
"A. I believe since 1940.
"Q. Continuously?
"A. Yes.
1 ' Q. You were instrumental in assisting in getting your daughter out
of East Germany into the United States ?
"A. Yes. I might elaborate on that. When we left, that is, when my
wife and I left Germany, we had to leave in a hurry, so to speak. Our
daughter, who was very small then, she was about six years old, was
living with my parents at that time. Of course, as soon as we had left
178 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
Germany, we were trying to get her out. It was the Gestapo who pre-
vented her from getting out under the argument that anyone who was
opposed to Hitler wasn 't fit to be born. For many years we didn 't know
she was alive. When the war was over we finally made contact. It was
very difficult, and through the American Consul in Berlin we started
proceedings to get her eventually into this Country.
" Q. In what part of East Germany did she reside ?
"A. She lived in Thuringa, the same part I was born and where my
parents lived.
"Q. Thuringa?
"A. Yes.
' ' Q. You were in Germany in 1923, were you not ?
"A. Well, I am afraid I will have to refuse to answer this question,
gentlemen, because in the first place I feel this has nothing obviously
to do with the stated purpose of these hearings, which, according to the
statements of your counsel and other members, and according to the
press, is an investigation into the so-called Communist infiltration into
the medical profession. I don't know what this has to do with whether
in the year 1923 I was in Germany or any place else. I think this is a
question that is probably leading up to some other questions which I
think I have a perfect right to refuse to answer on the following
grounds: in the first place, I believe that this is an invasion of my
rights to speak or to remain silent, to associate with whomever I want
to or not to associate, of what I have been doing in the past, of my right
to make a living in whatever profession I make a living. I think it is
irrelevant to this hearing. I think it is also an invasion of my rights
insofar as it might endanger me by leading to some groundless prose-
cution.
"In this case I would like to say that having watched many of these
hearings, not only the hearings of this committee, but some others, too,
I think that any such question reaching way back 20 or 30 years in the
personal history of a witness who ostensibly is called to testify about
something going on now, are always asked for the purpose of trying to
either smear that person or trying to lay the groundwork for some
unjustified prosecution.
"For this reason I feel that I have to invoke the Fifth Amendment,
not because that I have done anything that I shouldn't do, or not
because of my guilt of any crime, because I know I am not, but because
you cannot force me under the Fifth Amendment and under Article I,
Section 13, of the Constitution of this State of California, to be in any
case or under any circumstances a witness against myself.
"Q. (By Chairman Burns) : How long did you say you had been in
this Country?
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 179
"A. For 14 years — no, excuse me. I will have to figure it out. Since
1937. That is 17 years.
"Q. You came to this Country 17 years ago as a refugee from Hitler
Germany ?
"A. Right.
"Q. Now you are attending a constituted governmental meeting and
telling them how to run things, taking over and instructing us as to
our duties ?
"A. No, sir. I am not instructing you.
"Q. Mr. Hall, you have learned very rapidly under the tutelage of
someone — I have no idea of who they are — but you have learned very
rapidly how to run this Country. I resent your sitting there after
coming over here as a refugee and getting asylum in this Country and
telling a duly constituted body how to run its affairs.
' ' A. Senator, with all respect
"Q. Your reasons for refusing to answer the question are deemed
insufficient and you are instructed to answer the question as to whether
or not you were in Germany in a certain year, and which in no way
can incriminate you.
"A. I am afraid, Senator, I have to respectfully decline to answer
this question on the grounds given, and also on the additional grounds
that this is an attempt to deprive me of my right to earn my livelihood,
and my liberty and property without due process of law, and to deny
me equal protection of the law; it is contrary to the Fourth Amend-
ment to the Bill of Rights and Article I, Section 13, of the Constitu-
tion of this State, the privileges of which I hereby claim.
"May I add that I have in no way attempted to tell you or this
committee how to run their business because it is not my business to
tell you. But under the circumstances to which I am exposed, as are
the other witnesses before this committee, I have no choice, and I
believe I have excellent counsel, but to invoke these protections under
the Constitution.
"Since you have referred to my citizenship I would like to say
this, and I would like to say it in all sincerity, Senator : I, too, believe
this sincerely. This citizenship of the United States means a very
great deal to me and I will tell you why. I was driven out of my native
country because I was opposed, and I had to oppose in good conscience
what was going on then under the Hitler regime. I lived for years,
and believe me they were not light years, as a man without a country.
I will be grateful forever to the United States for giving me not only
asylum, but citizenship. But I also remember that the judge, when he
gave me citizenship, in the speech which he made to me right here
in Los Angeles, said, 'Let me congratulate you now as new citizens
of this Country. Let nobody ever tell you that you have any less
180 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
rights than any other citizen in the United States because this is a
free country.' I still believe it is. I don't believe that you can infer
from what I have said in any way that I was trying to be either dis-
respectful to the committee or telling you how to run your business.
This citizenship means so much to me.
"Q. Did the judge also tell you you were permitted to defy con-
stitutional bodies and were permitted to refuse to answer questions
before a properly constituted authority?
"A. I can't recall whether the judge said anything about this, but
I would like to say this
"Q. You have answered the question.
"A. He told me this
"Q. I don't want all of this rigamarolle. You have been through
it a couple of times.
"Mr. Marshall: No, Senator. He wants to finish his answer.
' ' Chairman Burns : The answer is finished. He said he didn 't remem-
ber. That's good enough.
"The Witness: No, but I would like to finish.
"Mr. Marshall: For the sake of the record, Senator, I want the
witness to have an opportunity to fully answer the question.
"Chairman Burns: He fully answered it to my satisfaction.
"Mr. Marshall: Do you want to withdraw the question?
' ' Chairman Burns : I am not going to withdraw anything, Counsel.
"Mr. Marshall: May he not finish?
"Chairman Burns: The question is finished. I have said it satisfied
me. Let's let it go at that.
"Mr. Marshall: The witness says he is not finished, but we will
move along as on the others.
' ' Chairman Burns : He will read over the same rigamarolle.
"Mr. Marshall: It is not the same.
1 ' Chairman Burns : The witness says he doesn 't remember. That is
good enough for me.
' ' Mr. Marshall : This is not rigamarolle, Senator.
"Chairman Burns: I have one more question to ask here. The other
question I had in mind I forgot, so go ahead.
"Q. (By Mr. Combs) : Mr. Hall, let me ask you this question. Is it
not a fact that while you were in Germany in 1923, you were a
member of the National Executive Board of an organization operated
by the Communist Party of Germany known as Kostufra, K-o-s-
t-u-f-r-a?
' ' Mr. Marshall : Would you spell the name again ?
"Mr. Combs: K-o-s-t-u-f-r-a.
' ' Mr. Marshall : How do you pronounce it ?
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 181
"Mr. Combs: 'Kostufra,' I presume. That is the phonetic pronun-
ciation.
' ' The Witness : I am afraid I have to respectfully decline to answer
this on the same grounds given before.
"Q. (By Mr. Combs) : Is it not true that in 1924 you became a
member of the Young Communist League in Germany?
"A. I have to decline this answer on the same grounds.
"Mr. Marshall: Mr. Combs, for the sake of the record, will it be
deemed in addition to all the grounds of constitutional privilege
claimed by the witness, that in all questions heretofore asked of him
that he has also asserted his privilege under Article I, Section 13, of
the Constitution of this State, and Article I, Section 19, of the Con-
stitution of this State ?
"Mr. Combs: In addition to the Fifth Amendment to the Federal
Constitution and the other amendments before mentioned?
' ' The Witness : And the First Amendment.
"Mr. Combs: So stipulated. Is it not also true, during the years
1935 and 1937 you contributed articles to the Soviet press, particularly
to International Press correspondence ?
"A. I am afraid this is the same kind of question which I decline
to answer under the same reservations.
" Q. Is it not true that after you arrived in Los Angeles you taught
courses in the People's Educational Center and the California Labor
School in this city? I might add that both of these schools have been
repeatedly reported as operated by the Communist Party in Los
Angeles ?
"A. I decline to answer on the same grounds.
"Q. Is it not also true that you have also written speeches to be
delivered by the Medical Division of the Arts, Sciences and Professions
Council?
"A. I am afraid I have to decline on the same grounds.
"Q. Is it not true that in February, 1944, specifically on January
17th and on February 14th, in San Francisco, you were the speaker in
a series of forums on 'Free Peoples Choose Their Own Government/
arranged by the Joint Anti-Fascist Refugee Committee which has been
listed as subversive by the Department of Justice of the United States?
"A. The same kind of question, I have to refuse to answer on the
same grounds.
' ' Q. Your speech on that occasion having been reported on page 4 of
the Communist newspaper published in California, the Daily People's
World, January 11, 1944?
"A. Pardon me, sir. What was the last question?
' ' Q. The last question as I recall it now — I will have to reframe it —
is it not a fact that those speeches, the ones you were alleged to have
182 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
made in San Francisco under the auspices of the Joint Anti-Fascist
Beftigee Committee, an organization declared Communist-dominated
by the United States Department of Justice, were not those speeches re-
ported in the Communist newspaper, the Daily People's World on page 4
of the issue of February 11, 1944 ?
"A. I am afraid I will have to decline on the same grounds.
"Q. Is it not a fact that in 1948 you were one of the sponsors for
the Conference for Peace presented at the Arts, Sciences and Pro-
fessions Council in Los Angeles ?
"A. That is the same kind of question. I will have to refuse to
answer on the same grounds.
"Q. Is it not a fact you were a member of the Civil Bights Congress
declared subversive by the United States Department of Justice?
"A. The same kind of question. I refuse on the same grounds.
"Q. Did you ever reside in Wisconsin?
"A. I will have to decline for the same reasons, I am sorry.
"Q. Do you refuse to tell us whether or not you ever lived in Wis-
consin ?
' ' Chairman Burns : On the ground that it may tend to incriminate
you?
"The Witness: It might. For the record I am saying I decline to
answer on the same grounds. I would like to repeat what I said. If I
am invoking the Fifth, it isn't because I feel I have done anything as
a crime, but I have to protect myself from unjust prosecution.
"Q. (By Mr. Combs) : Did you ever reside in Phoenix, Arizona?
"A. Same question, same answer.
"Q. It is not the same question.
"A. I am sorry.
"Q. It is a different question.
*'A. Same kind of answer, I am sorry.
"Q. Is it not a fact that you were appointed a delegate from the
California Labor School, which is the Communist school heretofore re-
ferred to in Los Angeles, a delegate from that school to the American
Continental Congress for Peace in Mexico City, September 5 to 11,
inclusive, 1949?
"A. I am afraid I have to decline on the same grounds.
"Q. Were you not a delegate to speak on behalf of the California
Labor School in the interests of a movement known as the Committee
for Peaceful Alternatives to the Atlantic Pact at a meeting held Sep-
tember 23, 1949, at 232 South Hill Street in the City of Los Angeles?
"A. I am afraid I will have to decline to answer on the same grounds.
' ' Mr. Marshall : For the sake of the record, all of these organizations
or meetings that you mention are regarded by the committee as being
subversive ?
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 183
' ' Chairman Burns : I object to that.
"Mr. Combs: No.
' ' Chairman Burns : No.
"Mr. Combs: Not exactly.
"Chairman Burns: No.
' ' Mr. Combs : We have made no such statement.
"Mr. Marshall: I see. What kind of organizations are they?
"Mr. Combs: The witness should know if he participated in them.
' ' Mr. Marshall : What does the committee know about them ?
"Mr. Combs: That is something within the prerogative of the com-
mittee. The committee does not happen to be on the witness stand.
"Chairman Burns: Do you make that statement, Mr. Marshall, as
a matter of fact, that all of these organizations are subversive organ-
izations ?
' ' Mr. Marshall : By no means, Senator. You completely misunder-
stand me.
"Chairman Burns: What is the purpose of your statement?
' ' Mr. Marshall : What is actually subversive and what the committee
regards as subversive are as different as night and day. You might
have, in my opinion, a completely irrational classification of organiza-
tions on your peculiar standards. However, you have written them
down in your black book as being bad organizations.
"Mr. Combs : Red book.
"Mr. Marshall: Red book, but that wouldn't make them so in my
opinion.
' ' Senator McCarthy : Mr. Chairman — ■
1 ' Senator Burns : Senator McCarthy.
"Senator McCarthy: Mr. Marshall, can you tell us what your defini-
tion of a subversive organization is?
"Mr. Marshall: Well, Senator, I am here in the role of counsel. I
am here to be instructed. I would like to have instructions from you
on that definition.
' ' Chairman Burns : We will be very happy to give it to you, but on
the other hand we don't want voluntary statements by counsel for the
record. That is what we are objecting to.
"Mr. Marshall: When Senator McCarthy asked me a question I felt
in courtesy I should respond.
"Senator Burns: That is correct. I am not objecting to that. I am
objecting to voluntary statements you made a moment ago as to a stipu-
lation that these organizations that the committee counsel mentioned
are subversive groups. We don't take that position. If you wish to
answer Senator McCarthy's question, you may.
"Mr. Marshall: I will wait for his definition of the term.
"Senator McCarthy: I am asking you a question.
184 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
"Mr. Marshall: Senator, I don't want to bicker with you about it.
I agree with Judge Edgerton in the Barsky case that the House Com-
mittee's definition of un-American, as contained in the resolution, is
just as completely ambiguous and irrational as the standards applied
by this committee and its predecessor in its work in this State. Does
that answer you, Senator?
"Senator Burns: I might add, Counsel, that you are not here as a
witness.
"Mr. Marshall: I am very glad to continue the definition, however.
' ' Chairman Burns : You were not required to answer any questions.
It is simply a matter of courtesy. You have not seen fit to do it. I sup-
pose Senator McCarthy is satisfied.
' ' Mr. Marshall : I want to be courteous, Senator.
"Senator McCarthy: Maybe Mr. Hall would like to answer the
question.
' ' Mr. Combs : May I continue, Mr. Chairman.
' ' Chairman Burns : Continue.
"Q. (By Mr. Combs) : Mr. Hall, have you ever been affiliated with
the Joint Anti-Fascist Refugee Committeel
"A. I decline to answer this question on the same grounds stated
before.
"Q. Have you ever been affiliated with the International Workers'
Order ?
"A. I have to decline to answer the question on the same grounds.
"Q. Is it not a fact that on the eleventh day of July, 1952, you ad-
dressed a meeting of the West Adams Women's Club, 2409 South La
Brea Avenue, asking for clemency for the Rosenbergs?
"A. In view of the standards that have been set to qualify everyone
who has protested at one time or another against an injustice is at least
suspect of being subversive, I am afraid I will have to decline to
answer this question on the same grounds.
"Q. Is it not also a fact that on the twenty-eighth day of August,
1952, you wrote a letter with Pauline Schindler and addressed it to the
Los Angeles City Housing Authority, protesting the discharge of Frank
Wilkinson because he was found to be a member of the Communist
Party?
"A. I would like to point out what you are asking me now is com-
pletely a legal professional kind of activity, of having written an article,
making a speech or signing a petition to some authority — all of this
seems to be under the same context of trying to prove some sort of
subversive character about my activities. For this reason I am afraid
I have to decline for the reasons stated.
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 185
" Q. Do you have the same attitude toward this question ? Is it not a
fact that on the sixth day of November, 1953, you attended a celebra-
tion of the thirty-sixth anniversary of the Russian Revolution, spon-
sored by the American-Russian Institute at the Park Manor in Los
Angeles ?
"A.I will have to decline to answer that under the reasons heretofore
stated.
"Q. Is it not a fact that on the sixth day of May, 1954, you spoke on
'Soviet Prosperity' under the auspices of the American-Russian Insti-
tute, 90 McAllister Street, in San Francisco ?
" A. I will have to decline to answer that for the same reasons.
"Q. That was last May. Are you now a member of the Executive
Committee of the Arts, Sciences and Professions Council in Los An-
geles ?
"A. I will have to decline to answer that for the same reasons.
"Mr. Combs: That is all.
"Chairman Burns: Senator McCarthy has a question.
"Q. (By Senator McCarthy) : Mr. Hall, what is your present occu-
pation ?
"A. I am afraid— I am a free lance writer on national and inter-
national affairs. My political opinions, therefore, are a question of
public rceord. I have written for The Nation, The Christian Century, The
Christian Register, The Churchman, and the Frontier Magazine. I am speak-
ing at public meetings three or four times a week. Everyone who would
like to know what I think about politics could ascertain that very easily
because it is all of record.
"Q. (By Mr. Combs) : Where is the Frontier Magazine published, in
Beverly Hills ?
"A. Yes.
"Q. Have you contributed to that publication on more than one
occasion ?
1 ' A. Sure I have, several times.
"Mr. Combs: That is all.
' ' The "Witness : I think it is a good magazine, too.
"Mr. Combs : I am sure you do.
' ' Mr. Marshall : Is the witness excused ?
1 ' Mr. Combs : I don 't know.
1 ' Chairman Burns : Just a minute. Do you have any questions ?
"Senator Thompson: No questions, Mr. Chairman.
' ' Chairman Burns : I think that is all.
"Mr. Combs: I think I asked this question, but I have been told that
if I did I didn't make it clear. Are you now a member of the Commu-
nist Party of the United States ?
186 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
"A. I decline to answer this question on the same grounds.
"Mr. Combs : That is all.
' ' Mr. Marshall : Is the witness excused, Senator ?
' ' Chairman Burns : Yes.
' ' The Witness : Thank you, gentlemen.
TESTIMONY OF DR. MURRAY KORNGOLD, PSYCHOLOGIST
"Q. (By Mr. Combs) : Doctor, your name is Dr. Murray Korngold?
"A. That is right.
' ' Q. Do you spell the name K-o-r-i-n-g-o-l-d ?
"A. That is wrong. It is spelled K-o-r-n-g-o-l-d.
"Q. You are physician and surgeon licensed to practice your profes-
sion in California ?
"A. No, I am not. I am a clinical psychologist with a degree of Doctor
of Philosophy and Psychology.
"Q. From what institution did you obtain your doctorate?
"A. I was very pleased to receive my degree from the University of
California at Los Angeles.
" Q. In what year, Doctor ?
"A. That was in the year 1953.
"Q. Did you ever act as an instructor at any educational institution?
"A. I feel it necessary to preface my remark with a qualification.
With regard to all questions which the committee chooses to ask here I
don't want to give you the impression of shamefacedly apologizing for
or concealing any aspect of my life history, my thoughts or my actions.
I have been guided by what I think are strictly moral considerations
in the selection of my thoughts and actions. Consequently, I am not
ashamed of my activities in general, which have been dedicated as near
as I can make out to the welfare of the public. However, because of the
context of hysteria created not only by this committee but other com-
mittees like it throughout the land, the multitudinous laws, many of
them contradictory with each other, being held ready to inflict punish-
ment on those who express views publicly and give evidence of this sort
publicly, I would prefer to decline to answer this question, claiming as
I do the privilege against self-incrimination conferred on me by the
Fifth Amendment of the Constitution and the parallel provision in
the State Constitution, Article I, Section 13. This is by no means an
evasion, but rather a defense of others who one day will appear in my
position to avoid being incriminated for whatever activities they may
be confronted with.
"Q. Then you refuse to answer the question which was, of course:
have you ever acted as instructor in any educational institution? You
decline to answer that question for the reason you have given ?
"A. That is correct.
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 187
"Q. Is it not a fact that you did act as an instructor, Dr. Korngold,
in the People's Educational Center of this city which has heretofore
been identified as the Communist school, in the year 1947 ? I will amplify
that if I may.
"A. Very well.
' ' Q. And the basic course which you taught was entitled ' Science and
Society?'
"A. I believe, Mr. Combs, despite your characterization of this insti-
tution today that it is a matter of public record that the curriculum and
members of this institution and others like it were devoted to securing
peace, were devoted to raising the educational level of a number of
working adults, and whether or not I taught at this or any like institu-
tion does not invalidate the fact that — at least I so regard it as a fact
that institutions like this conducted themselves with a good deal of
propriety, with a good deal of dignity and for the best interests of the
United States of America.
"Q. The question is, did you teach at that institution?
"A. I decline to answer, for the reasons given, that question yea or nay.
"Q. Did you teach a course entitled 'Dialectical Materialism No. 2'
at the winter session of the California Lai) or School in Los Angeles in
1950?
1 ' A. With regard to that question, my feeling is and always has been
that the key right of American citizens, secured by the First Amend-
ment to the Constitution, is the freedom to speak and think as the
individual so deems proper, and of course, freedom to associate per-
sonally and politically as he deems fit.
' ' Chairman Burns : Did anyone stop you from teaching at this school ?
Did anyone stop you from teaching, if you did?
"A. If I may say
" Q. You can answer yes or no.
"A. I can answer it as I choose, sir.
"Q. You can't answer as you choose. You can answer yes or no,
or I will withdraw the question.
"Mr. Branton (counsel for the witness) : We will accept that.
"Chairman Burns: Very well. I will withdraw the question.
"The Witness: The point in relation to the question made by Mr.
Combs is that to the degree that one is penalized or threatened with
penalty, or with intimidation or with harassment for teaching, think-
ing, writing, or speaking along this or any other line, to that extent
the right to think and speak freely is impaired. The very presence
of this committee at this time questioning me as to the propriety, by
implication, of my having taught or not taught such courses at such
a school tends to seriously undermine the right of all Americans to
dissent politically from the prevailing idea or the idea in vogue at
188 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
the moment. For this reason I choose to decline to answer that ques-
tion, and in so doing, defend the right of other citizens to dissent
politically if they so choose.
"Q. (By Mr. Combs) : Did you ever teach a course in an institution
in Los Angeles known as the Sequoia School f
"A. To the best of my knowledge, Mr. Combs, the school that you
have referred to — I must say this, since the implication contained in
your question is that the school you referred to was guilty of some
reprehensible action or code of ethics or something antisocial, to the
best of my knowledge the school that you refer to was genuinely de-
voted to — if they still exist I don't know — genuinely devoted to
advancing the welfare of the public. As to whether of not I taught at
the Sequoia School I must decline to answer on the same grounds as
previously stated.
"Senator Thompson: Would you repeat the question?
"Mr. Combs: The question that Senator Thompson asked for was
whether or not he ever taught in an educational institution at Los
Angeles known as the Sequoia School.
"Senator Thompson: That would require a yes or no answer.
' ' Mr. Combs : It could be answered yes or no, certainly.
' ' Senator Thompson : Thank you.
Q. (By Mr. Combs) : Have you ever heard of an organization in
Los Angeles known as the Arts, Sciences and Professions Council?
"A. Do you mean the National Council of Arts, Sciences and Pro-
fessions ?
"Q. No, I mean the Los Angeles chapter.
"A. That body of individuals which is devoted to advancing the
health and welfare and cultural standards of the population of Los
Angeles ?
"Q. Now, Doctor, please.
"A. Is that the body to which you refer, sir?
"Q. The question was simply whether or not you ever heard of
an organization known as the Arts, Sciences and Professions Council
in Los Angeles.
"A. If you and I have the same reference with regard to these
letters ASP.
"Q. It is an organization. I am not trying to define it. Did you
ever hear of it? Did you or didn't you?
"A. I have heard of this most estimable organization.
"Q. Then you have answered the question.
"A. Yes.
"Q. Thank you, very much. Have you ever been a member of it?
"A. For me to admit association in any such political organizations
that have been named by the Attorney General
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 189
"Q. Is it a political organization?
"A. Any such organization, whether political, cultural, civic society
that has been identified by the public authorities as subversive, or in
some manner a reprehensible organization — although I do not implic-
itly accept this characterization — would lay me open to penalties
whether I answered yes or no. Therefore, I decline to answer this
question on the grounds previously stated.
" Q. Is it not a fact that in 1952 you were a member of the Medical
Division of the Arts, Sciences and Professions Council in Los Angeles?
"A. I decline to answer that question on the grounds previously
stated.
"Q. Is it not a fact that on the sixteenth day of January, 1952,
you attended a meeting of the Health and Welfare Division of the
Medical Section or Division of the Arts, Sciences and Professions
Council at a residence in Los Angeles?
"A. Are you implying, Mr. Combs — I may be misinterpreting your
question, but are you implying this was in some way or would have
been in some way, if this act occurred, a reprehensible act?
"Q. I am not implying anything. I am asking for your best recol-
lection of whether or not you attended that meeting. You can answer
yes or no or you don't remember, or you can invoke your constitu-
tional rights.
"A. Because for a witness under these circumstances to be placed
in a position where he must decline to answer a question, which I
think was fairly predicted by the mass of your questions, I don't
imagine you would predict any other outcome — I think must serve
some purpose. As I sit here and cogitate over the questions you ask,
I wonder what purpose could possibly be served by your compelling
witnesses to answer. Is it for the sake of eliciting information or set-
ting the stage for some kind of a legislative act which would publicize
professional people for declining to answer questions like this. Perhaps
I should not inquire into your motives, but I have a sneaking suspicion
this motive exists.
"Q. You are entitled to whatever suspicion you care to harbor.
Would you answer the question, Dr. Korngold, please.
"A. I decline to answer on the grounds previously stated.
"Q. Is it not a fact you were also affiliated with an organization
known as the Civil Bights Congress, which has been declared Com-
munist-dominated by the United States Department of Justice?
"A. Which should make that characterization an established fact?
"Q. I didn't say that. I said it had been listed in that manner by the
Department of Justice. My question to you is whether or not you are
affiliated with it?
190 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
"A. I would decline to answer that question on the grounds previ-
ously stated.
"Q. Is it not a fact that on the twelfth day of September, 1953, you
attended a meeting of the Civil Rights Congress at 1251 South St.
Andrews Place in Los Angeles?
"A. May I have the question repeated?
' ' Mr. Combs : Yes.
"Q. Is it not a fact that on the twelfth day of September, 1953, you
attended a meeting of the Civil Rights Congress, 1251 South St. An-
drews Place in the City of Los Angeles ?
"A. In your view, Mr. Combs, does a citizen of the United States
have a right to attend whatever meetings he chooses to ?
"Q. I am not a witness, sir. I am supposed to ask questions and you
are supposed to answer.
"A. It may have been a rhetorical way of stating a view on my part.
I would decline to answer the question on the grounds previously
stated.
' ' Q. Are you attached to the medical staffs of any hospitals or clinics
in Los Angeles, Doctor ?
"A. I think it is incumbent on me to explain a little more fully what
my professional standing is. The degree of Doctor of Philosophy and
Clinical Psychology is not a medical degree, consequently it does not
entitle persons so endowed with rights of membership in medical staffs
or with the right to prescribe medicine, or for that matter any other
prerogative confined exclusively to physicians. Therefore, it would be
most inappropriate for me to be or to affirm any membership in any
medical staff.
"Q. I see. Are you connected in any way with an organization known
as the Community Medical Center1!
"A. I would appreciate it if you would amplify the one portion of
your question, 'attached in any way.'
"Q. I will be glad to.
"A. Would you, please?
"Q. Particularly in light of the explanation which you made awhile
ago. Have you been connected with the staff, medical or otherwise, of
the Community Medical Center1! It is my understanding, I may be in
error, Doctor — I am very sincere in this — I don't know — it is my
understanding it has a medical staff and in addition to its clinical staff
probably a radiologist, technicians, laboratory experts, and so on.
"A. I think it is unfortunate
"Mr. Branton: Just a moment.
"The Witness: It is extremely unfortunate that I am placed in a
position where I must affirm or deny or decline to state concerning an
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 191
institution which has set itself up as a matter of public record with the
task of affording some kind of prepaid health insurance plan for mem-
bers of low income groups which despite relatively meager financing
has done a remarkable job, and because of this has in some way ruffled
the feathers of a certain Cadillac clique that dominates the Los Angeles
County Medical Association, which has bound itself to the aim of under-
mining or destroying this or any other form of prepaid health insur-
ance, I think it is deplorable parenthetically, that a State Senate Com-
mittee should lend itself to such unethical aims as that espoused by the
L. A. C. M. A.
"Q. Would you answer the question, Doctor?
"A. For that reason, since the Community Medical Center has teen
placed in the most unfortunate and lamentable position of being at-
tacked for reasons that are purely fantastic, for reasons that are con-
jured up out of the unwholesome machinations of a few, shall I say,
greedy people — I cannot answer a question of this sort relating to the
Community Medical Center for reasons formerly stated.
"Q. Did you attend a meeting sponsored by the Community Medical
Center on the tenth day of April of this year in honor of the Keverend
Stephen Fritchman ?
"A. This meeting, as I understand it — what sort of a meeting are
you referring to?
"Q. A testimonial dinner.
"A. In no way, in my opinion — I assume that my opinion is a rele-
vant consideration in the testimony here — is there anything wrong.
"Q. It would be relevant to determine for yourself whether or not
you wish to answer this question.
"A. To put it plainly and succinctly I think every citizen has a right
to attend this sort of testimonial dinner, or any other dinner honoring
a recognized leader of the public, of his church, and of the community.
"I know from public evidence that Mr. Fritchman is a most sincere
and devoted and dignified person, I may say, and although I am not
in any way implying by this answer that I did not and do not, or for
that matter anyone else did not or does not have the right to attend
such a dinner, I must decline respectfully to answer that question on
the grounds previously stated.
"Q. Are you now or have you ever been a member of the Communist
Party, Doctor?
"A. That is a question I would decline to answer.
"Mr. Combs: That is all.
' ' Mr. Branton : May the witness be excused ?
"Mr. Combs: As far as I am concerned.
"Mr. Branton: May the record show the witness was represented by
Counsel Leo Branton, Jr., 112 West Ninth Street, Los Angeles?
192 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
' ' Mr. Combs : Yes, and the witness was put on at this time
' ' Mr. Branton : As a courtesy to me.
' ' Mr. Combs : As a courtesy to you.
"Mr. Branton: I appreciate it. Thank you.
STATEMENT FILED AS AN EXHIBIT IN CONNECTION WiYh
THE TESTIMONY OF DR. KORNGOLD
"The committee, adhering to its policy of receiving written state-
ments from witnesses rather than allowing them to be read by the
witness as a part of his testimony, filed the following statement sub-
mitted by Dr. Korngold in connection with his testimony. The state-
ment reads as follows :
" 'From Dr. Murray Korngold, Ph.D., 8350 Wilshire Boulevard,
Beverly Hills, California.
" 'I feel it necessary to set forth publicly and in advance of my
hearing before the Burns Committee the reasons for my refusal to
answer all the questions that this committee may choose to ask. Also
I wish to explain why I would regard cooperation with this com-
mittee as an act which would dishonor me and my country :
' ' ' First : it is morally nonpermissible for anyone, whether freely
or under duress, to give names to an inquisitorial body which will
then proceed to harass and persecute honest people on the basis of
such information. In a word, it is in the deepest sense un-American
to be a stool pigeon, informer, a Judas Iscariot, however much in
vogue such persons may be at this time.
' ' ' Second : this committee and others like it seek to implant in
the public mind the delusion taken directly from the Joe McCar-
thy-Mickey Spillane lunacy which identifies every effort to advance
the welfare of the public as a "Communist conspiracy." Even
tacitly to accept this committee's false premise is by that same
degree to assist in poisoning the public mind against the growing
movement for an end to racial discrimination in all phases of our
life; would assist in poisoning the public mind against seeking
peaceful alternatives to global war; would be, in fact, an act sup-
porting little McCarthys in our state who by means of this false
premise restrict and undermine democratic rights, all in the name
of fighting Communism.
' ' ' Third : in the practice of clinical psychology, the relation be-
tween client and psychologist depends very greatly on the psy-
chologist's integrity as a human being, his ability to inspire trust
in others, that he will not under any circumstances betray a con-
fidence.
" 'Further, the whole training and practice of a clinical psy-
chologist is permeated by the striving for independence of judg-
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 193
ment. In the light of this and with the faces of my clients before
me I am impelled to the conclusion that for me to bow before this
committee's demand either to shamefacedly deny or apologize for
my life, thought and actions, would be an act totally lacking in
the dignity befitting a person who proposes to help others with
their innermost problems.
' ' ' Fourth : knowing as I do, the aims of this committee, on the
basis of this hearing to insinuate legislation depriving professionals
of their licenses on political grounds, I cannot cooperate with Mr.
Burns' committee without simultaneously doing injury to profes-
sionals generally and to the Bill of Rights which protects the right
of all to dissent politically.
" ' It is a mocking irony that this committee conducts its hearing
during the week set aside as Bill of Rights "Week. However, in an-
other sense it is perfectly fitting, since our democratic rights to
freedom of speech, worship, press, assembly and freedom of per-
sonal and political association were established and reestablished
in resisting just such committees throughout our nation's history.
It is for this reason that the great scientist, Einstein, speaks of
" * * * the duty of refusing to cooperate in any undertaking that
violates the constitutional rights of the individual. This holds in
particular for all inquisitions that are concerned with the private
life and the political affiliations of the citizens. Whoever cooperates
in such a case becomes an accessory to acts of violation or invalida-
tion of the Constitution."
" ' It is with a deep sense of pride, therefore, that I do my duty
and follow in the historic American tradition of resistance to politi-
cal compulsion.' "
TESTIMONY OF ROSE BOYD
"Q. (By Mr. Combs) : Will you please give your name and address
for the record ?
"A. Rose Boyd, 10756 Ashby Avenue, Los Angeles.
"Q. Is it Mrs. Boyd?
"A. I am unmarried now.
' ' Q. Were you at one time married to Vischner Boyd ?
"A. No, but I was married to Visscher Boyd.
' ' Q. Was he an architect ?
"A. You would have knowledge of it. Senator Burns, in view of the
procedure with the other witnesses may I also ask that this statement
of mine be received by the committee and entered into the record ?
' ' Chairman Burns : May I see it, please ? Let the record show that the
witness has presented a statement. The chair will rule that it may be
included in the record and marked as the committee's exhibit for this
194 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
witness, next in order. (The document was marked Committee's Exhi-
bit 14.)
"Q. (By Mr. Combs) : Mrs. Boyd, do you have an occupation or
business ?
"A. Yes. I am a life insurance agent.
' ' Q. For the Manhattan Life Insurance Company ?
' ' A. For a number of companies, both life and disability.
" Q. Is that one of them ?
"A. That is one of them.
1 ' Q. Have you given us your business address ?
"A. No, but I can.
"Q. Will you, please?
"A. 215 West Fifth Street, Room 1012.
' ' Q. You were at one time the wife of Visscher Boyd ?
"A. Yes, I was.
' • Q. Was he an architect by profession ?
"A. Yes, he was.
' ' Q. Did you at one time reside in Philadelphia ?
"A. I am trying to think this through. When I have come to my
conclusion I will speak.
"Chairman Burns: Take your time.
"The Witness: Yes, I lived in Philadelphia.
"Q. (By Mr. Combs) : Did you reside there in 1937?
"A. I am trying to remember. Yes, I was living there at that time.
"Q. In that year did you come to California?
' ' A. Yes, I lived here at that time.
"Q. When you lived here were you placed in contact with or did you
meet a man by the name of Max Silver ?
"A. Your question is did I have any association with a man named
Max Silver ?
"Q. In 1937.
"A. 1937?
"Q. Yes.
"A. To my knowledge this man is one who has been associated —
this is the first time I have heard it with this committee, but with other
committees and one who is in a position of informing on other people,
at this point I claim the privilege of constitutional guarantees against
degrading myself by any answer to this question.
"Q. By admitting any association or contact with him?
"A. By admitting any association — not only because it tends to
degrade me, but also I take the privilege of the First Amendment to the
United States Constitution, which grants me unabridged rights of as-
sociation, free speech and free press. I also at this time invoke the
privilege of the Fifth Amendment to the United States Constitution
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 195
and also the comparable provisions in the State Constitution, Article I,
Section 13, which actually draws no inference of guilt, however, it
specifies that one shall not be compelled to be a witness against one's
self.
"Q. In a criminal proceeding.
"A. You are not putting words in my mouth I hope.
"Q. All right.
"A. I stated it this way; I would like to state it in the record this
way.
' ' Q. You may consult with your counsel.
"A. Thank you, sir.
' ' Chairman Burns : Counsel, I think we got a little bit away from the
question. The question was, did she ever meet the individual ?
"Q. (By Mr. Combs) : Do I understand your answer to be this, Miss
Boyd, that you decline to admit any contact or association of any kind
with the person whose name I have mentioned, Max Silver?
"A. I have neither admitted nor denied. I refuse to be degraded.
1 ' Q. Do you refuse to answer that question on the grounds specified 1
"A. On the grounds I stated.
"Q. All right. Is it not a fact that the purpose of your trip from
Philadelphia to California in 1937 was to assist the Communist Party
of Los Angeles County in raising funds for the Daily People's World?
"A. By the very nature of your statement, the way you put it, and
the intent of this committee — I could speak of why I came to California
generally, but the way you pose this question already brings it in an
area where I must refuse to answer it and stand on the constitutional
grounds previously stated.
"Q. That you have already specified?
"A. That is right.
"Q. Were you a member of the Communist Party when you came
to California from Philadelphia in 1937 ?
"A. Same answer.
' ' Q. For the same reasons ?
"A. For the same reasons.
"Q. Is it not a fact that you were a charter member of the Commu-
nist Party of the United States ?
"A. Now, really. The same answer, the same reasons.
"Q. At one time you did secretarial work in New York for Earl
Browder ?
"A. Same answer, for the same reasons.
"Q. Is it not a fact that you were a coordinator for the testimonial
dinner to the Keverend Stephen Fritchman which was held April 10,
1954, in Los Angeles at the Park Manor?
196 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
"A. We live in such a strange world. It is so topsy-turvy. In posing
a simple question, one which normally in social relations one answers
simply, but by posing that question, our life is no longer simple. It is
not a simple thing. Here we are living in an atmosphere where knowing
other people already brings us within an area of possible prosecution.
You are speaking about a dinner. All of us go to various testimonial
dinners. This did not have any onus in itself, but by the very thought
that this committee for the last two days — I have read the reports —
already has indicated the name of Mr. Stephen Fritchman, then the
context of one who has appeared before various committees — already
you have put me in a position where I have the highest regard for this
man as a great humanitarian, one who has actually in past years given
courage and heart to people who want no part of war, who has given
heart and courage to people in every field of their endeavor, their
humanitarianism — this man has been pilloried, and by the fact that he
has been so pilloried, as I said before, in a single contact in a testimonial
you have put me in a position where I must deny or refuse to answer
any questions with respect to such a dinner and with respect to such
a man because you have specified that he is already considered with
contumely. This is a mad world.
"Q. Will you answer the question?
"A. I decline to answer on the constitutional grounds previously
stated.
"Chairman Burns: Pardon me. Who do you think it would hurt
most, you or him, if you stated you were at the dinner ?
"The Witness: I will tell you this, Senator Burns. When the question
arises who may be hurt most, myself or someone else, this is the very
nature of the stool pigeon psychology. When an informer comes before
the committee he has already made up his mind that he will be hurt
less by turning against his fellow man. He has had this struggle in
his own mind no doubt before he appeared. He had to make a decision :
whom will it hurt most? Frankly, it might hurt me most, but that is
not my consideration. My consideration is that any point where a
person says, 'shall all those things I hold dear' — I have a son and I will
want to raise him with a sense of basic ethics where the question of
right, wrong, justice and injustice are clear in his mind. If at this time
it is put to me, ' whom will it hurt most, ' you are asking me to say, ' if I
admit all this, and perhaps I can get away with naming this person or
the next person because I will be in the clear,' this has never been a
decision for me. This has already been something by which I have lived
and that is, never will I inform on other people and never will I put
my personal gain or personal welfare above the welfare of a group.
(Applause)
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 197
"Chairman Burns: You were not asked to inform on anyone. Now,
let me admonish the audience. You are here as guests. If there are any
further demonstrations we will conduct the rest of the meeting in secret
session. If you like to be here, conduct yourselves as ladies and gentle-
men. Any further demonstrations from this point will result in closed
sessions from now on.
"Q. (By Mr. Combs) : Mrs. Boyd, was your maiden name Rubin?
"A. Yes.
"Q. Do you know a person named Rena Marie Vale?
"A. In this case I must say that Rena Vale — I didn't know her first
name, but Rena Vale —
"Q. Rena is her first name.
"A. It is?
" Q. It is. Rena Marie Vale.
"A. Rena Marie Vale has been an informer for the Tenney Com-
mittee, your previous committee. I know her as such a person. There-
fore I will not admit to any direct association with her, as it would
tend to degrade me, plus the various constitutional amendments I have
previously stated.
' ' Q. Are you aware of the fact that Rena Marie Vale identified you
as a member of the Communist Party and stated in a sworn statement
that she was in the Communist Party at the same time you were?
"A. Is that a question or a statement?
"Q. It is a question. I said, are you aware of the fact that she did
make such a statement about you?
"A. I decline to answer that on the same grounds for the same
reasons.
"Q. Are you aware of the fact that other witnesses, including Mr.
Silver, have testified that you were a member of the Communist Party ?
' ' A. For the same reasons previously stated I decline to answer that
question.
"Mr. Combs: That is all.
"Mr. Branton: May the witness be excused?
"Chairman Burns: The witness may be excused.
STATEMENT SUBMITTED BY THE WITNESS ROSE BOYD
"I feel privileged to be identified with those doctors who protest
this committee's invasion of their basic rights, as professional men
and citizens.
"I have the highest regard for individual members of the medical
profession, but I share with the great numbers of laymen a contempt
for the money-grubbing that characterizes organized medicine; for
its callousness toward the social needs medical science should serve;
and particularly for subverting the very essence of the Hippocratic
198 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
Oath and making a mockery of it through practicing medicine as a
lucrative business instead of as a human science.
"This committee (and their medical stooges) are not after these
doctors alone — it is we, the patients, present and prospective, that
they are after. This is the gravy train that the committee wants to
reward their 'counterespionage agents' with. They want to destroy
low-cost clinics, prepaid medical and hospital group panel practice.
But the American people are not fooled. Each year finds greater num-
bers being covered under the many excellent prepaid health plans
now in existence.
"The day is past when these people will fall for trumped up
charges of 'Communism' and 'socialized medicine.' They know how
well served they are, who only could afford emergency care before.
They won't readily go back to the alternative of entering a doctor's
office to find the cash register in his right hand while he wields a
scalpel on his patients with the left.
"This committee seeks to destroy the letter, the spirit and the very
intent of the Bill of Rights, even as we honor this document this week.
But our founding legislators planned well and wisely. They knew that
each generation would find bigots who would work to destroy this
heritage, but they also knew that each generation would produce
patriots to defend the Bill of Rights in its entirety."
TESTIMONY OF KEN HARTFORD
"Q. (By Mr. Combs) : Please give us your name and address.
"A. Ken Hartford, 4831 Arlington Avenue, Los Angeles.
"Q. What is your business, Mr. Hartford?
"Mr. Branton: Prior to that, Mr. Combs, the witness has a statement
to file.
"The Witness: Mr. Chairman.
' ' Chairman Burns : Yes, sir.
' ' The Witness : I would like to file a statement with the committee.
' ' Chairman Burns : Let the record show that the witness, Mr. Ken
Hartford, presents to us a statement which will be incorporated in
the record and marked as the committee's exhibit next in order.
"Q. (By Mr. Combs) : What is your occupation, Mr. Hartford?
"A. I am an administrator.
"Q. Where are you employed?
"A. Mr. Chairman, as I have read the reports in the newspapers
of these hearings, certain witnesses here have made various attacks on
institutions in this community. These institutions as usual have been
named and it has been suggested that perhaps they are under scrutiny.
The committee has indicated in the press that there are several such
organizations or institutions which are being investigated, or I believe
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 199
the term was 'are under scrutiny' by this committee. So while I am
very proud of the organization with whom I may work, I feel some-
what like Alice in Wonderland: everything is upside down.
"Q. You don't look like Alice in Wonderland.
"A. You don't have to look like someone to feel like they do.
Senator Burns doesn't look like the Queen of Hearts, but I would put
him in that category.
"Chairman Burns: Thank you. (Laughter.)
"Mr. Combs: A little laughter once in a while in a hearing of this
type is refreshing.
' ' The Witness : Yes, sir. I think there could be a little more. I invoke
the constitutional privileges which I will name in a few minutes, but
I feel first I must explain why I do so.
"I sit here — I was amazed — I suppose I shouldn't be by this time
because after all this committee has been in existence for 16 years by
the admission of its chairman. The House Committee on Un-American
Activities has been in existence for a long time. I see things, values
which I was taught as a child and which I came to revere and to respect
in the United States and to which lip service is still given — I see
them turned on every day. Take for example the Fifth Amendment to
the Constitution. What this committee says, at least to the press, or at
least as it is reported in the press and which they would have people
believe, that Tom Jefferson, Washington and Hancock and the other
drafters of our Constitution —
' ' Mr. Combs : May I interrupt you for a moment, Mr. Hartford ?
"The Witness: Yes.
' ' Mr. Combs : Are you reading from a prepared statement ?
"A. No, I am not. If you want to read it, you may.
"Q. Is this in response to a question, or is this a gratuitous contribu-
tion of yours?
"A. This is in response to the question, explaining why I must do
what I have to do, even though it would be normally something which
anyone would be proud to do.
"Q. Why don't you answer the question and then give your explana-
tion, which is the usual practice 1
"A. I am afraid if I answer the question first you would shut me up.
Frankly, I am sure you are no friend of mine. You have made that
very clear.
"Q. Again I suggest, sir, that you either refuse to answer the ques-
tion, giving such grounds as you wish to give, and then if you wish
to give an explanation within reasonable bounds I am sure the com-
mittee will have no objection.
200 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
"A. What I am arriving at, Mr. Combs, is the fact of this constant
allegation or allusion to incrimination in relation to the Fifth Amend-
ment. The people who drew up our Constitution, if we believed you,
were interested in protecting the guilty, in protecting outlaws. The
people who drew up the Constitution of the State of California, if we
believed you, were interested in protecting outlaws, but I don't think so.
" Q. If you believed who ?
"A. Believed you and Senator Burns, because you always say if a
person invokes the Fifth Amendment you imply they are thereby guilty.
"Chairman Burns: You imply that you may suffer incrimination.
"The Witness: I may suffer incrimination, but that incrimination
may be completely unfounded, unjustified, and come under the head
of persecution, but not legitimate incrimination.
' ' Chairman Burns : That is your viewpoint. You are entitled to that
and we will let you have that.
' ' The Witness : Gee, thanks. I am glad you feel that way.
"Chairman Burns: This is a duly constituted government agency
seeking information. We want to know something about various or-
ganizations existing in Southern California. If you think it will incrimi-
nate you to tell us about them, that is one thing, but don't put a state-
ment into our mouths that we think it does. We can't accept that as a
fact. If someone asks if I stole some money and I say, 'I won't answer
because it may incriminate me," incriminate me against what? In-
criminate me against prosecution for stealing the money ? Let 's not have
any more speeches. Let's get along with the hearing.
' ' The Witness : I don 't know what, but I feel that incrimination is
definitely there and there is a link to possibly incriminate me even
though as far as I am concerned I know I have done no wrong.
"Chairman Burns: If you feel you have done no wrong then you
should have no hesitancy about answering the questions.
"The Witness: I certainly have if someone will twist what I say
and bring an unjust prosecution against me. I want to avoid that if I
possibly can.
"Chairman Burns: All right. Let's get back to the question. Who
was your employer? Is that the question, who was your employer? Do
you refuse to answer that question on the same grounds? If you do,
say so.
' ' The Witness : I was explaining before the reasons for my grounds.
"Chairman Burns: Do you refuse to answer the question?
"The Witness: The previous witness — I feel I am entitled to explain
this. After all, this is a public hearing. The press is here.
"Chairman Burns: What are you going to explain?
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 201
' ' The Witness : I was going to explain the grounds for which I refuse
to answer the question.
"Chairman Burns: You can answer the question first and then, if
you wish, give the reason for it.
■ ' The Witness : All right. I decline to answer it on the following
grounds, on the grounds that the Fifth Amendment of the United States
Constitution, which was written to protect the innocent ; the grounds of
the First Amendment of the Constitution, which gives me the free
right of association and belief; the grounds of Article I, Section 13,
which gives me the same rights as being a witness against myself.
"Chairman Burns: Thank you very much. That did not take too
much trouble, did it ?
" Q. (By Mr. Combs) : Is that the answer ?
"A. Yes.
"Q. Is it not a fact that you are the Director of the Community
Medical Center?
"A. The Community Medical Center, as I have heard of it, is an or-
ganization which is promoting prepaid plans, low cost medical care. I
know from the press, at least I am led to believe from the press, that this
is one of the organizations which the county medical association hier-
archy, the Cadillac clique, it was mentioned here before, wants to get
and which this committee, if I am to judge by the press report, is acting
as hatchet man to help get. I will not assist this committee in trying to
destroy an inter-racial health center, one of the few health centers in
the city that is inter-racial, that is trying to do a job of providing low
cost medical care to people in the lower income brackets. I therefore
decline to answer this question. Furthermore, I think the Community
Medical Center, I know has already been mentioned here, it has already
been said it is under scrutiny. I know the reasons for this, as I stated
before. Therefore, I must decline to answer for the reasons previously
stated.
" Q. Is it not a fact that in the summer of 1946 you were an instruc-
tor at the People's Educational Center in Los Angeles?
" A. I must decline to answer that question on the same grounds.
"Chairman Burns: Just a minute. Counsel, I would like to enter
into a stipulation with you : in each and every instance where the wit-
ness declines to answer a question, on whatever grounds he has given,
in order to save time I would like you to agree to a stipulation that the
chair deems his reasons insufficient and instructs him to answer the
question.
"Mr. Branton : I will be willing to stipulate on behalf of ray client
that whenever he declines to answer a question, if he so does, that it
will be deemed that he declines to answer on constitutional grounds
202 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
which were given in the declination to the first question. However, as
to the second part of the stipulation, I am reluctant to do so because
this would be an all-inclusive stipulation and there may be some ques-
tions which are very material and relevant which I would not like
to stipulate that you have deemed to have asked him to answer those
questions. Sometimes there is a little by-play and the question is aban-
doned. For the purpose of protecting my clients perhaps every time
you order them to answer a question it should be done that way.
"Chairman Burns: Will you agree as to the questions that have
been propounded to him already that he has refused thus far to answer
— I don't think they fall into the category you mention — that the
grounds for refusing to answer are deemed insufficient and the witness
is instructed by the chair to answer the questions? Do you wish the
reporter to read it back?
"Mr. Branton: Is the chair saying he rules that the grounds are
insufficient as to all past questions which have been asked?
' ' Chairman Burns : Yes.
"Mr. Branton: I don't know what the questions were.
' ' Chairman Burns : Let 's see if we can have them read back.
' ' Mr. Combs : I might paraphrase the questions. The first one was
as to his occupation, which he answered. The next question was the
place of his present employment, which he declined to answer. The
next question was whether or not it was a fact that the place of his
employment presently was the Community Medical Center, which he
has also declined to answer. The next question was whether or not
in 1946 he was an instructor at the People's Educational Center, which
he also declined to answer. Does that bring us up to date?
"Mr. Branton: Will you stipulate his declination to answer all those
questions was on each of the constitutional grounds that he has given?
' ' Chairman Burns : Yes.
' ' Mr. Branton : I will stipulate as to each of those questions that the
chair has ordered him to answer the question.
' ' Chairman Burns : Very well, and that the reasons given are insuffi-
cient.
' ' Mr. Branton : I will also stipulate that he again refuses to answer
each of these questions on the grounds previously stated.
' ' Chairman Burns : Very well.
"Q- (by Mr. Combs) : The next question is, Mr. Hartford, is it not
a fact that in the year 1948, you were an instructor in the California
Labor School in Los Angeles?
"A. With all due respect to the California Labor School as an outfit
which tried to do a good job, I must decline to answer for the reasons
previously stated.
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 203
"Q. Is it not a fact during the term which commenced January 24,
1949, and continued until April 1 of that year you taught a course
in the California Labor School in Los Angeles concerning the develop-
ment of the trade union movement in the United States?
"A. I must again decline to answer for the same grounds.
"Q. Is it not a fact that during the spring semester of 1946, you
were the coordinator for the People's Educational Center in its over-all
activities ?
"A. I must again decline for the same reasons, on the same grounds.
"Q. Is it not a fact during the spring term of 1950, you were an
instructor in a class or classes at the California Labor School in Los
Angeles and its Extension Division?
"A. I must decline for the same reasons and on the same grounds.
"Q. Is it not a fact that you were a sponsor for an organization in
1945, in December, known as American Youth for Democracy, which
has been listed as subversive and Communist by the United States
Department of Justice?
"A. I decline to answer on the same grounds.
"Q. For the reasons previously given?
"A. For the reasons previously given.
"Q. Is it not a fact that in July, 1951, you were executive secretary
of the Community Medical Center, according to an article which ap-
peared in the Daily People's World of December 7, 1951, page 3, column 5 ?
"A. I must again decline to answer on the same grounds and for
the same reasons.
"Q. Is it not a fact that you are one of the signers of a booklet
issued by the Arts, Sciences and Professions Council in June, 1951,
entitled, Yours for a Genuine Brotherhood; which has been referred to by
previous witnesses ?
"A. I remember the booklet, I believe.
"Q. Do you remember the booklet?
"A. Yes, I do. I thought it was a wonderful thing to further the
fight against racial discrimination in hospitals and other medical and
health organizations in this community. However, I must decline to
answer the question on the grounds previously stated.
"Q. Have you been affiliated with the Medical Division of the Arts,
Sciences and Professions Council in Los Angeles?
"A. I decline to answer on the same grounds.
"Q. For the reasons previously given?
"A. Yes.
"Q. Are you acquainted with Dr. Jack Flasher?
"A. In view of the fact that Mr. Flasher has been subpenaed
before this committee, and in view of the fact that questions that were
asked were of such a nature which might imply that there was a possi-
204 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
bility of scrutiny, shall we say, by this committee, and possibly further
action in relation thereto, I must decline to answer on the grounds
previously stated.
' ' Q. Mr. Hartford, have you ever been affiliated with an organization
known as the Civil Rights Congress, which, I might add, has also been
listed by the Department of Justice of the United States as a Commu-
nist-controlled organization ?
"A. I assume that you are referring to the organization, Civil Rights
Congress, which has done an outstanding job in protecting people
against inquisitions such as this, and against other abuses of govern-
mental authority and power. However, I must decline to answer the
question on the grounds previously stated.
"Q. Have you ever been a member of an organization know as the
st <itt -wide Legislative Conference?
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
"Q. You never heard of it?
"A. That was not an answer. I am entitled to know what is it?
' ' Mr. Branton : Privacy of counsel.
' ' Mr. Combs : lama lip reader.
"The Witness: Is this organization listed by anybody as being sub-
versive or suspect ?
' ' Mr. Combs : Many times.
' ' The Witness : Or under scrutiny ?
' ' Mr. Combs : Many times.
"The Witness: Well, again, Alice in Wonderland has returned.
You, yourself, have set the basis that makes it mandatory.
' ' Mr. Combs : You asked me and I told you.
' ' The Witness : I refuse to answer on the grounds previously stated.
"Q. Did you attend a meeting on December 4th, last, at the Alex-
andria Hotel in this city?
' ' A. What meeting do you refer to ?
"Q. A meeting called the Citizens Committee to Preserve American
Freedom. It was an evening meeting that started about 8 or 8.30, held
at the Alexandria, and was attended by many people, some of whom
are under subpena at this session.
"A. Again you are mentioning an organization which is carrying
on the best traditions of American life and historical culture and for
whom I think the citizens of Los Angeles should be eternally grateful.
"Q. The organization I just mentioned?
"A. Yes, the Citizens Committee. However, I must decline to answer
on the grounds previously stated.
"Q. Have you been a member of the Communist Party or the Com-
munist Political Association, Mr. Hartford?
' ' A. The same answer for the same reasons.
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 205
"Mr. Combs: That is all.
"Mr. Branton: May the witness be excused?
• ' Chairman Burns : Yes. ' '
STATEMENT SUBMITTED BY MR. KEN HARTFORD
' ' Press stories regarding this hearing leave no doubt that there is
but one reason why the Senate Committee on Un-American Activities
could possibly summon me as a witness. It is to seek my assistance in
furthering what I consider to be a conspiracy on the part of a few top
leaders of the county medical association for private gain at the ex-
pense of the health interests of the people.
"Wittingly or unwittingly, the committee is lending itself to a self-
seeking endeavor by those leaders to more firmly establish a lucrative
medical business monopoly over the alleviation of pain and suffering
due to illness.
"If the aims of this group are successful, those doctors and others in
the health field who are providing better and lower cost medical care
through group practices, through service-type health plans and other
methods to meet the complexity and high cost of medical care, will be
deprived of their license or cowed into submission.
' ' Should this happen, it will be the people who foot the bill — both in
higher medical fees and lower health standards. Good medical care will
become less available, especially to those in minority and lower income
groups. This will inevitably lead to higher fees and lower quality of
care ; for medical science, like any other science, cannot flower in an
atmosphere of political conformity and repression.
"I am not 'friendly' to such a program, and I will not knowingly
assist it in any way. In fact, I will do all within my power to oppose
it. I will not have any part in establishing a de-licensing mill wherein
doctors who do not kow-tow to the wishes of medical association leaders
will be shorn of their hospital appointments and licenses. I will not
participate in this invidious attempt to raise already high medical fees
through the elimination of competition and the killing of service-type
prepayment plans, which have proved to be the only means whereby
middle and lower income groups can insure good medical care for
themselves.
"It is not easy to be an 'unfriendly' witness, with the personal stigma
which currently attaches thereto and subjects one's wife and children
to the currility of hate groups and vindictiveness.
"However, I will not be an informer, a stool pigeon or a tool of any
vested interest, medical or otherwise. Therefore, I must choose to be
an 'unfriendly' witness in this investigation and to safeguard myself
by claiming the protection of the First and Fifth Amendments to the
206 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
U. S. Constitution, and Article I, Section 13, of the California Consti-
tution, for the purpose for which they were intended — to act as a shield
for the innocent against the abuses of office."
STIPULATION CONCERNING TESTIMONY OF
DR. FRANKLIN BISSELL, M.D.
' ' Mr. Combs : Would you state your name ?
"Mr. Okrand: Fred Okrand.
"Mr. Combs: How do you spell your name?
"Mr. Okrand: O-k-r-a-n-d.
"Mr. Combs: Mr. Okrand, you are a duly licensed and practicing
attorney, are you not?
"Mr. Okrand: Yes.
' ' Mr. Combs : In the City of Los Angeles ?
"Mr. Okrand: Yes.
' ' Mr. Combs : One of your clients who was under subpena to appear
here tomorrow morning — was it 10 o 'clock ?
"Mr. Okrand: Yes.
"Mr. Combs: Was it Dr. Franklin Bissell?
"Mr. Okrand: Correct.
"Mr. Combs: You contacted me by telephone at the hotel, didn't
you?
"Mr. Okrand: Yes.
"Mr. Combs: You asked me if we could arrange a stipulation for
reasons that you gave to me at the time concerning him?
"Mr. Okrand: Yes, I did.
' ' Mr. Combs : I told you that I could accommodate you by entering
into the kind of stipulation that you and I have just discussed ?
"Mr. Okrand: Yes.
"Mrs. Combs: Correct me if I am in error. The stipulation is this,
in substance : that if Dr. Bissell were here present, sworn and questioned
under oath and asked whether or not he was now or had ever been a
member of the Communist Party, his answer would be that he declined
to answer the question on the ground that a truthful answer to the
question might tend to incriminate him, under the provisions of the
Fifth Amendment and the other provisions that you are now about to
mention ?
"Mr. Okrand: Yes.
"Mr. Combs: And that if I asked him about meetings that he is
alleged to have attended, and organizations to which he is alleged to
have been affiliated, such meetings and organizations having been
described by any federal or state agency as subversive, that his an-
swers would be that he would decline for the reasons which you are
about to mention for the record. Is that right?
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 207
"Mr. Okrand: That is correct. There is one modification, Mr. Combs.
Our stipulation is that he would decline to answer for these reasons
' ' Mr. Combs : That is correct.
' ' Mr. Okrand : the privileges against self-incrimination, Article
I, Section 13, of the California Constitution, and the Fifth Amendment
to the United States Constitution, the guarantees of freedom of speech,
press and assembly, Article I, Sections 9 and 10, of the California
Constitution, and the First and Fourteenth Amendments to the United
States Constitution.
' ' Mr. Combs : Will you give us your address ?
"Mr. Okrand: 257 South Spring Street.
"Mr. Combs: By way of foundation I would have asked Dr. Frank-
lin E. Bissell whether or not he was a duly licensed physician and sur-
geon of the State of California and his answer, according to the data
which appear in the medical directory, would have been in the affirma-
tive; that he is described in the medical directory, an excerpt from
which I have before me, in original, was that he attended the Univer-
sity of Vienna, he graduated there in 1932 ; he was born in 1908 ; he
Was licensed to practice in California in 1933 ; his business address is
1315 East Main Street, Alhambra, California. I would have asked him
if he is now or has ever been a member of the Communist Party or
Communist Political Association. And according to the stipulation he
would decline to answer for the reasons heretofore given.
' ' Mr. Okrand : May I make one statement, Mr. Combs ?
"Mr. Combs: Surely.
"Mr. Okrand: As to the answers, the correctness of your founda-
tional questions, I have no knowledge.
' ' Mr. Combs : The stipulation does not cover the foundation questions.
"Mr. Okrand: That is correct.
"Mr. Combs: I would ask him whether or not he has been affiliated
with the Medical Division of the Arts, Sciences and Professions Council
in Los Angeles, and according to our stipulation he is deemed to have
declined to answer the question for the reasons heretofore given.
"I would ask him whether or not he was a candidate in Alameda
County in 1936 on the Communist Party ticket for the position of
supervisor of that county. According to the stipulation his answer
would be that he declined to answer for the reasons heretofore given.
' ' Mr. Okrand : I had understood our stipulation had already covered
all the questions.
"Mr. Combs: Then we won't need to repeat them.
"Mr. Okrand: You won't have to repeat any of the questions.
' ' Mr. Combs : I wanted to get into the record
"Mr. Okrand: I didn't understand that to be a part of the stipula-
tion.
208 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
' ' Mr. Combs : I have only one more. The other question was whether
or not he had ever been affiliated with the Civil Bights Congress.
According to the stipulation he would have declined to answer the
question for the reasons heretofore given. Those were the only ques-
tions I wanted to ask. Is that satisfactory?
' ' Mr. Okrand : That is in accordance with our stipulation, I believe.
' ' Mr. Combs : Very well. ' '
DR. MURRAY ABOWITZ EXCUSED FROM SUBPENA
"Chairman Burns: The committee will please come to order. Mr.
Combs, and gentlemen of the committee, Mr. Robert Morris is here
making a request in behalf of Dr. Murray Abowitz. The doctor is con-
fronted with emergency work. His attorney, Mr. Robert Kenny, is
unable to be present due to a trial in San Francisco.
"Mr. Morris, the committee subpenaed Dr. Murray Abowitz more
for the purpose of having him available in case he wished to make a
statement of any kind, because his name has been brought up here on
several occasions. If it is his wish, if he does not want to appear, it is
perfectly all right with the committee that he be excused. Is that in
accordance with your wishes?
' ' Mr. Morris : Yes, sir.
' > Chairman Burns : Dr. Abowitz will be excused from the subpena.
In the event he desires at any future time to come back, he may advise
the committee.
' ' Mr. Morris : Thank you very much.
' ' Chairman Burns : Mr. Cohn.
"Mr. Cohn: Yes.
"Mr. Combs: As long as you are here we might as well put in the
record. You and I agreed concerning your client, Dr. Justin Frank,
did we not?
"Mr. Cohn: Yes.
"Mr. Combs: We had a conversation concerning him. As a matter
of fact, we had several.
"Mr. Cohn: That is right.
' f Mr. Combs : For reasons known to you and to me, he has been ex-
cused from appearing at this session of the committee. Is that correct?
' ' Mr. Cohn : That is correct.
' ' Mr. Combs : Thank you.
' ' Mr. Cohn : Thank you.
"Mr. Combs: Mr. Chairman and Members of the Committee — I have
just conferred with Mr. Daniel Marshall, who has three clients who
were scheduled to testify today, one of whom was subpened, I think,
for yesterday — I am quite sure of that — but we moved it over to this
morning to accommodate him and his counsel. I have just examined
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 209
the records and I find we can call all of them in a group so that Mr.
Marshall can leave if he so desires.
"Chairman Burns: Very well.
' ' Mr. Combs : Mr. Marshall, I would like to have Mr. Hittelman tes-
tify first if it is satisfactory with you.
TESTIMONY OF DR. JOSEPH HITTELMAN, M.D.
"Q. (By Chairman Burns) : Let's have your name, business and
residential address, please, Doctor?
"A. Joseph Hittelman, M.D., 6317 Wilshire Boulevard, Los Angeles.
"Q. (By Mr. Combs) : Your residence is where?
"A. My residence is 5604 Holyoke Drive, Hollywood, California.
"Q. Dr. Hittelman, you are a physician and surgeon, are you not?
"A. That is true. I received my degree here in California.
"Q. At the University of California?
"A. Yes. If you wish, I can go right through my educational back-
ground very rapidly. I was born in Rochester, New York, December
25, 1910. I came to California in 1920. That was a long time ago,
before we had smog here, as a matter of fact. I was educated in the
public schools of Los Angeles. I took premedical work at the University
of California at Los Angeles. Then I went to Berkeley, where I received
my B.A. degree in 1932. I received my M.D. degree in 1936. I was an
intern and resident in medicine in Mt. Sinai Hospital in San Fran-
cisco from 1935 to 1937. I then returned to Los Angeles to enter
private practice of medicine. I practiced general medicine here until
1942, at which time I entered the army of the United States. I served
here in the States and also in the Pacific theater of operations, Leyte
and the Philippines. I was commanding officer of the hospital ship
Platoon.
"Q. What rank?
"A. Captain. I was delegated to transport casualties back to the
United States. My earlier duty was the handling of psychiatric casual-
ties, which has left a lasting impression on me.
"Subsequent to my separation from the service I returned to
private practice of medicine in Los Angeles. I then took the op-
portunity to take post graduate work full time in the Post Graduate
School of Medicine at the University of California at Los Angeles in
diseases of the heart and circulation. Subsequently I have specialized
in internal medicine, with special attention to diseases of the heart.
I am now engaged in such private practice.
"Q. Dr. Hittelman, did you ever reside on Soto Street in Los
Angeles ?
"A. I did. I had my office there.
"Q. Was that at 132 North Soto?
210 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
"A. That is true.
"Q. During what years did you reside there, to the best of your
recollection ?
"A. As a matter of fact, in the year 1921 we moved into a house
on Soto Street. It was a little two-lane street. I lived there and sub-
sequently the property was rebuilt. I even opened an office there, and
I lived at that address from the year 1920 or 1921 until about seven
years ago.
"Incidentally, in the practice of medicine, ever since my return
to Los Angeles, I have always been a member of the Los Angeles
County Medical Association. That is a full 17 years. I am also a mem-
ber of the American Heart Association, the Association for the Ad-
vancement of Science, and of course, the other companion medical
societies, such as the State Medical Society and the A. M. A.
' ' Q. Dr. Hittelman
"A. I did not complete my qualifications. I have also passed the
written examination for certificate as a specialist from the American
Board of Internal Medicine. I have yet to undertake the oral examina-
tion. There may be some vicissitudes attached thereto.
"Q. Dr. Hittelman, have you ever been known by any name other
than Hittelman?
"A. Mr. Combs, the import of this question certainly indicates to
me the purpose of this committee. It was publicized that this com-
mittee came to investigate infiltration in the county medical society,
and some elements came up about an election which was had here in
1949, in which I was a candidate. I would like to enter into that when
I answer this question. The officers of the county medical society who
were responsible for my appearance today, which has been stated in
the press, obviously have no love for me. I think the reason is con-
nected with that election. That should be gone into in detail.
"Chairman Burns: Doctor, may I interrupt you a moment?
"A. Yes.
"Q. When you are discussing the election, are you discussing the
election for the association or some political election?
"A. You see, this is why this point is so important to me. This
particular election is one which was conducted within the Los Angeles
County Medical Society. It was an election in which officers were
nominated, the slate was proposed by a nominating committee from
the association and in which certain opposition candidates, of which
I was one, were proposed from the floor. These opposition candidates,
so-called, were nominated in a duly authorized fashion from the floor
at a meeting, at a general meeting of the county medical society and
within the framework of the constitution and by-laws of the county
medical society.
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 211
"I cannot understand why this committee should go into this par-
ticular feature of intra-society business, but this committee has mani-
fested a very intense interest in this particular aspect.
"Why did this particular campaign in which candidates for almost
the first time were put up in opposition to the leadership, who have
made their presence known here before, such as Drs. Sampson, de los
Reyes, Frees, the individuals who were the top echelon leaders in the
county society, why does that particular election bother them so much ?
Why can't opposing views be presented in an orderly fashion in the
manner in which they were done at that particular time?
"I think there are certain features about the election concerning
which there can be no dispute. The nominations were carried out in
order. I assume the ballots were sent out from the office the way they
should have been and were returned and counted in proper fashion. A
20 percent vote was registered in favor of the candidates nominated
from the floor. What is so subversive about such an election campaign ?
Everything was out in the open. Everything was carried through in
orderly fashion.
"Perhaps it is the program, perhaps it is the desire on the part of
the leadership of the county society to label people who are in a certain
activity with a certain name. Once they have been given that horrible
name everything associated with it becomes repugnant in the public eye.
"I will state in three sentences what was the program of the indi-
viduals who were opposing the leadership in the county society. There
were three points. First, was to make the association more democratic.
I think that is a perfectly desirable endeavor.
"Secondly, it was to end discrimination in our hospitals in Los An-
geles. The point was brought up here, oh, that was just a red herring
thrown around, that discrimination does not exist, and so forth and so
on. I am sure the minority groups throughout the country are aware of
the opposite being true, that discrimination has existed in hospitals in
the attitude toward minority group physicians, also in the attitude to-
ward minority group patients. It has existed in the past and it exists
today. It will continue to exist until true democratic ideals of this
country come forward and eliminate it. It is a part of the same battle
that has been going on in the fire department. That has been settled,
and this should be settled in the same fashion.
"The third point was to have the association work for humanitarian
goals in the community rather than to conduct merely a narrow pro-
gram for the advancement of the economic interests of its members.
That is a very important point. It is a ticklish situation with doctors,
public health, compulsory health insurance, and so forth. They get a
bit worried about the pocketbook. That is all right. Everybody has an
interest in his pocketbook, but on the basis of that purely selfish interest
212 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
T don't think we should, under any circumstances, permit the health of
the nation to suffer.
"For the reasons which I have outlined, those individuals whom the
officers of the county society suspected with having anything to do with
the opposition have never been forgiven. The fight was a fairly good
fight. I think it was almost a thousand members who voted for these
members. How will you label these thousand members who voted for
those candidates?
"Furthermore, something else grew out of that particular election
campaign. One of these things was the election last year, or rather a
ballot on the amendments to the by-laws of the county medical society.
This election was carried out in December, 1953, at which time 783
votes were cast against one particular change in the by-laws, and these
783 votes cast in opposition to the demand for a loyalty oath upon new
applicants coming into the society, what will we call these 783 physi-
cians who voted against the loyalty oath in the county society ?
' ' These are some of the points which have not been brought up here,
and I am willing to go into them with you gentlemen. The county
society has an ax to grind in this hearing. When the ax is sharpened
it expects this committee to use it on the necks of those who have
appeared here under compulsion and who have voiced sentiments
against these proceedings. I was anxious to get these particular points
on. These hearings have been going on since Monday.
' ' Mr. Combs : We have permitted you to do so.
' ' The Witness : I am very grateful to you for it. From the statements
T have seen in the press, in the coverage of these meetings, it pleases
me that this committee has acted in such a fair fashion.
"Mr. Combs: Thank you, sir.
"The Witness: There have been other investigating committees,
there have been committees who have taken the tone of the junior Sena-
tor from Wisconsin rather than the tone taken here. If you gentlemen
are out for facts I think this is the way to get them.
"Mr. Combs: Doctor, I take it you appreciate the subject with which
this committee is concerned is not only a rather challenging one, but it
has elements of the controversial in it, it has elements of sensationalism
from time to time. It is not the easiest field for this committee to func-
tion in. Of course, we try to be as courteous as circumstances will permit
and nevertheless exhibit the courage necessary and take the action that
will accomplish the end for which we were constituted. Now let's get
back to the question I asked you a moment ago and that was :
"Q. Have you ever used any name other than the name Hittelman,
and for the purpose of making it more explicit I will add this : did you
ever go by the name of Jack Martin ?
UN-AMERICAX ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 213
"A. Gentlemen, we are not living- in a vacuum. There is a certain
particular climate that we live in. This question brings up so many rami-
fications that one does not know where they lead. As I stated before, I
think the reason I have been brought down here is because I opposed
certain ideas in the county medical society. To bring forth this particu-
lar question at this time is something that has been done before and
it is a technique that we are all familiar with. As much as I would like
to answer it very honestly I cannot do so. I do think it is an invasion
of my right to speak or to remain silent, to make whatever associations
I want to. And in this particular instance it is pointed directly at me,
as I stated before, because of this opposition to the ruling hierarchy
in the county medical society. For that reason I can do nothing else
but ask you gentlemen again the purpose of this committee here is to
get at the truth of why there is this segment of opposition in the county
medical society.
"Q. I would be very glad to explain the reason for the question at
this point, doctor.
"Mr. Marshall: I think the witness has one more point to make to
you. He will be finished in a moment.
' ' Mr. Combs : All right.
"The Witness: Because of that particular reason and in view of
the fact this may stop getting at the full reasons for this hearing, I
would suggest that the committee withdraw this particular question.
I am sure 3*011 want all of the facts in the case. This may sort of stop
up the flow of information which you are anxious to get.
"Mr. Combs: Dr. Hittelman, j*ou stated that you suspected your
candidacy for the office in the Los Angeles County Medical Association,
predicated on the platform of the three points which you have enumer-
ated, and I quote you now, which was, 'out in the open,' puzzles you
because of the resistance you met on the part of the then officers and
the majority of members of the medical association. Now, assuming
that they had reason to suspect or believe — and I don 't know that they
did — that you may have gone under a name other than your own, to be
explicit, in the year 1937, and that you did so to masquerade your
affiliation as a member of the Communist Party, would that not answer
your question in part as to why your candidacy might have met with
some resistance ; and the further reason for asking this question is
because our information is, and the only way I have of testing the
accuracy is to ask you, and this certainly goes to the heart of the cam-
paign and the candidacy for the office which you have described, is that
your Communist Party name was Jack Martin, that you joined the
Communist Party in 1937 when you were living at 132 North Soto
Street, Los Angeles, and that you were attached to the medical unit
214 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
in the professional section of the Communist Party of Los Angeles
County. That is the reason for the question.
' ' The Witness : I still respectfully suggest to this committee that this
immediately changes the type of hearing into the type that I commented
about before which are conducted under the aegis of Senator McCarthy
from Wisconsin. It is a part of the same old story of 20 years of treason.
If you don't like something, label it and then it becomes treasonable.
"I have trouble teaching my children the meaning of words these
days. They ask me what a word means. You look at the newspapers.
It doesn't make sense. I said, 'look at the way Abraham Lincoln used
the word. Look at the way it is used in the dictionary. ' That is the only
way you know words with different definitions today.
' ' I would like to further state that carrying this question along these
particular lines you will eliminate the possibility of getting at the
bottom of this whole particular matter. I would like to ask Mr. Burns,
who is going up to Sacramento in January, there will be a lot of in-
formal meetings about who will get this appointment and that appoint-
ment. On certain appointments to certain committees there may be
individuals who dislike Mr. Burns, and yet these individuals may be
willing to work with him in certain aspects of public power and private
utilities, and so forth, where pressure has become very terrific on
individuals. Mr. Burns may get somebody to work with him in spite
of the fact that that individual is committed to private power interests,
let us say. Subsequently, should the committee be able to compel Mr.
Burns to divulge how these appointments were made and how he was
able to get support from various segments and individuals who might
be harmed by pressure groups if it came out that they were giving him
support. I mean, we do not live in a naive world. There are certain
retaliations that come to individuals if we say how things happen.
Carry it over to the waterfront, people can get killed for opposition,
if it is known on the part of an individual that he opposed gangster
rule on the waterfront. Some of these things just can't come out.
"Mr. Combs: Dr. Hittelman, may I add this in fairness to you.
It is also our information that you are not now a member of the Com-
munist Party and you have not been for some time.
' ' The Witness : I don 't think that is material to the case at all.
"Mr. Combs: We think it is. I don't believe we have an answer to
the last question.
"The Witness: If you will insist, Mr. Combs,
' ' Mr. Combs : I think the committee does.
"Chairman Burns: Let me say this, Doctor. One of the additional
criticisms that you overlooked enumerating against this type of com-
mittee has been that many people have not had the opportunity to be
present to verify, to affirm or deny various allegations or accusations,
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 215
if you want to use that term, made against them. You started out very-
well in discussing the subject for which we are here this morning. In
fairness to you we have told you the information we have. It would
be very unfair, and the criticism would be justified, if we publicized
the information we have without giving you the opportunity to know
about it or hearing about it and to confirm or deny it. In fairness to the
committee and in fairness to you, in order to get all facts concerning
the subject which we are investigating, we think that you should answer
the question. If you were known as Jack Martin, tell us. If you were
not, you can say no. I think it is material to the inquiry.
' ' The Witness : May I answer you, Mr. Burns. The only way I feel
that I can resist this whole trend in American life of giving something
a name and then calling it bad and the associating people with that
name is by the opposition here right now. If the State Legislature
passes a law stating henceforth from this day the color black is green,
that doesn't make it green. This is what is happening in American
life today. Legislative bodies pass a law that if anybody says such and
such, and such and such and so forth is so and so, and from that day
on he is so and so. Anybody who has been labeled anything, anything
left of being a Knowland Republican, is a Communist, and that in-
cludes Eisenhower. That includes everybody left of Knowland, McCar-
thy and Nixon. It is so funny today that it is certainly time that
individuals who are Democrats are very, very vulnerable and should
understand it. I am trying to oppose that trend in American life.
"I am a physician. My first duty is to patients. I love the practice
of medicine. I think I am a good doctor. But I cannot give up my
citizenship. I see my patients influenced on every side by social and
economic features. I can't make an adequate diagnosis unless I am
aware of those impacts on their physical and mental wellbeing, and I am
dragged into this particular situation for that reason. I am not of that
group of doctors who confuse social with socialistic. That is another
label. Asking this particular question is an attempt to label me.
' ' The statement was made that you have evidence I am not a member
of the Communist Party now, and for so many years. To me that is
immaterial to the particular question here because that question in-
volves labeling. I am sick and tired of labeling if for no other reason
than that I have a heck of a time explaining to my children what words
mean which don't mean the same thing they did 50 years ago.
"I suggest again that you withdraw this particular question and let's
stick to the issues of why is the A. M. A. so interested in getting the
Burns committee to carry the ball for them on this particular issue.
' ' Chairman Burns : The committee believes the question is material.
It is one of the main issues as to whether or not you are a member of
216 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
the Cominunist Party or whether or not you used this particular name.
The Chair will have to direct you to answer the question, Doctor.
"The Witness: Seeing as I have been unable to convince the com-
mittee that they should have the county medical association carry the
ball at their own expense with their own attorneys — they are a very
wealthy organization — but have been able to pass over to the State and
have the State carry it at state expense, which I think is a real subter-
fuge, and because I do respect the state authority, I have been given
a command to answer the question, which I think you have no right to
ask, gentlemen, but since I am being forced to do so I want it under-
stood that I am doing it under compulsion, that this particular ques-
tion again is an invasion of my rights of free speech because from
this day on it interferes with my inability to oppose the vested leader-
ship in the county medical society. It has invaded my right guaranteed
to me under the First Amendment to the Bill of Rights, Article I,
Section 9, of the Constitution of this State. Secondly
"Chairman Burns: Are these the grounds which you are using for
refusing to answer the question?
> ' The Witness : For refusing to answer this particular question.
Secondly, it is an attempt to deprive me of my right to earn my liveli-
hood. I think you gentlemen should understand that individuals who
come out of this hearing, such as doctors, are now being forced into a
position where they are going to have to defend themselves against
further restriction, perhaps even battle against the revocation of license
in the future. If the medical society can get the committee to lay the
groundwork for that procedure I certainly expect them to get the intro-
duction of bills in the forthcoming Legislature. Therefore, this in-
volves
' ' Chairman Burns : I hate to say this, Doctor, but you are making
the record.
"The Witness: Pardon?
' ' Chairman Burns : I am reluctant to say so, but you are making
the record that may be or may have the result of these events you
are talking about. You are making the record, and not us.
' ' The Witness : At this particular hearing ? It has been in the press
already, the whole purpose of the hearing. Here is what I mean,
Mr. Burns.
' ' Chairman Burns : You are not helping us any at all.
"The Witness: You say I am making the record. The record is
already made. The press release stated the purpose of this hearing.
"Chairman Burns: I am referring, Doctor, to the chain of events
that you are now enumerating in your reason for refusing to answer
the question. It is your record.
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 217
"The "Witness: Do you mean my standing on the Constitution of
the United States is making a record which will be used against me ?
"Chairman Burns: I don't know, but if it is you are making it,
not I.
■ ' The Witness : If I am making a record by standing on the Consti-
tution of the United States, I am perfectly happy to get such a record
down.
"The second reason is, under the Fourth Amendment to the Con-
stitution because it will tend to deprive me of my livelihood, my liberty
and property without due process of law.
' ' Thirdly, I will also claim the privilege of the Fifth Amendment of
the Constitution of the United States, and Article I, Section 13, of
the Constitution of the State of Cailfornia, as a ground for refusing
to answer this question, which I am very sorry you gentlemen brought
up and which I think will hamper these hearings rather than help
them.
' ' In addition to the Fourteenth Amendment which I quoted, I believe
also Article I, Section 13, of the Constitution of this State, which
overlaps.
"On the further grounds that this committee sits without lawful
authority and exceeds its valid powers. By that I mean that this com-
mittee by its very action, and in the present climate of public opinion,
is a punitive and executive committee rather than a legislative one.
I think other people have gone into that.
"Also on the additional grounds that they have clearly come forth
as an action of complicity between federal agencies and this com-
mittee to deprive me of my constitutional rights under the Fifth
Amendment.
"Furthermore, to compel me to expose myself to false prosecution
for an alleged violation of federal laws. As I stated before, the question
which you asked of course has no materiality or pertinency to any
lawful power of this committee.
"There is another ground which I would like to call to your atten-
tion, that buttressing the action of the county medical society in these
types of activities can clearly be a violation of the Sherman-Clayton
Antitrust Act. There are many occasions which I think the committee
should beware of wherein the American Medical Association has run
afoul of the law, believe it or not.
"Chairman Burns: Wait a second now, Doctor. Are you all through
giving your reasons?
"Mr. Marshall: No. He is still continuing with his reasons, Senator.
"Chairman Burns: All right.
218 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
"The Witness: Sometimes it might be said the doctor gave these
reasons and in addition to the Sherman-Clayton Antitrust Act he threw
in the kitchen sink. That isn't so far fetched as it may sound. The
American Medical Association has made it very, very difficult, I want
you all to understand, for group practices, prepaid health insurance,
voluntary health insurance to make its way in this Country. The society
has been acting in such a situation which is actually in restraint of
trade under those laws.
' ' Incidentally, we had a very good example of that in Los Angeles in
1929, with which you must be familiar. It is the case of the Ross-Loos
Clinic. In 1929, the leaders of the Ross-Loos Clinic were thrown out of
the county medical society because they started a prepaid medical group
for the Department of Water and Power employees. That was called
socialistic, of course, and every subsequent plan has been called socialistic.
' ' The powerful A. M. A. lobby in Washington is known to every poli-
tician. I am sure you gentlemen are familiar with the firm of Whitaker
and Baxter in California. This high priced advertising firm has been
carrying the ball for the state society ever since it succeeded to the ap-
pointment. One of the leading figures in this battle was an individual —
you heard him testify here several days ago, Dr. Alesen, a stone age
economist
' ' Mr. Combs : That is hardly a legitimate reason for refusing to an-
swer questions, Dr. Hittelman. While we have been very patient, and I
think quite tolerant with you, and have permitted you to go into the
history of litigation of the American Medical Association, and a great
many other extraneous matters, you have accused us of doing a few
extra-curricular things. Let us see if you and I cannot strike a happy
medium. Give us the reasons you don't want to answer the question and
we can get on to the next of your counsel's clients.
"Mr. Marshall : The doctor has one or two more reasons.
"Mr. Combs: I don't doubt that he will, but that doesn't mean that
we are going to permit him to deliver a long extraneous explanation of
matters which are really not legitimate, legal reasons for refusing to
answer a simple question.
' ' Mr. Marshall : I think if you reflect on it a moment you will see that
it is fully germane to the issue. What is involved in this attack upon the
medical society election is really a contest between two very different
ideas for the medical care of the people of this Nation. It is really an
attack on such a venerable institution, and so respected a proponent as
Governor Warren's health bill. That is what it amounts to. These are
germane issues. You are interested in acquiring this information, I am
sure.
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 219
1 ' Mr. Combs : We are interested in finding out whether or not your
client was a member of the Communist Party under the name of Jack
Martin.
"Mr. Marshall: Why?
"Mr. Combs: That is the question.
1 ' Mr. Marshall : Why is that relevant ? Would you ask Governor War-
ren to come in here to explain his reasons why in support of his health
bill if he was a member of the Communist Party ? Has that anything to
do with the issue ?
' ' Chairman Burns : We asked him once.
"Mr. Combs: We asked him once and he answered it very frankly
and very willingly.
1 ' Mr. Marshall : Governor Warren in the witness chair is a different
person than any other person brought here.
1 ' Chairman Burns : He was not governor then, Mr. Marshall, but he
was a witness before the committee and I have asked him the question.
"Mr. Combs: He was on the stand a half a day. Now let's have the
reasons for the witness ' refusal to answer the question, and get on with
the hearing.
"Mr. Marshall : He will continue.
"Mr. Combs : We have been very polite with you.
' ' Mr. Marshall : Yes, and we have been with you.
"Mr. Combs: Let's expedite it a little. We have many more witnesses.
' ' Mr. Marshall : For the record, you will have to agree that we have
been equally courteous and polite to you.
' ' Mr. Combs : Yes.
1 ' Mr. Marshall : Very well. Go ahead, doctor.
' ' The Witness : I don 't want the impression to get across that I think
the American Medical Association is such a horrible organization. It is
just the top level leadership of the A. M. A. because their inhuman social
philosophy has made it a two-headed hydra, on the one hand that of
Aeschelus and on the other that of a cigar-smoking lobbyist in Wash-
ington. I believe the people should understand that. The A. M. A. has
done a lot of wonderful things for medical science. It has done a lot of
good things for the health of the people, but that is not permitting the
people to get health care. For that reason, the last point I made under
the Sherman-Clay Anti-Trust Act is a valid one.
"Mr. Combs: Have you concluded, doctor?
' ' The Witness : I will conclude with this statement.
"Chairman Burns: Don't talk to Mr. Marshall any more or he will
think of another reason.
' ' The Witness : I am a physician. I am proud to be a physician. I have
been a member of the county medical society here for 17 years. I don't
intend to leave the society. I have a vested interest in it. I will try to
220 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
remain in it to do what I can to bring some humanity to the organiza-
tion. I must pay tribute to the thousands of doctors who belong to the
A. M. A., who feel as I do but who have been absolutely inarticulate in
their expression and opposition to its policy.
"Mr. Combs: Have you concluded, doctor?
' ' The Witness : One more thing. I would like to commend to this
committee a very scholarly —
"Mr. Combs: Is this one of the reasons for refusal?
' ' The Witness : Yes — an exhaustive article on the American Medical
Association, published in the Yale Law Journal, Volume 63, No. 7,
May, 1954, apparently by four attorneys. It really opened my eyes
to the situation I didn't know existed. It is a real indictment of the
antisocial policies of the American Medical Association. As a matter
of fact, it would be a very good idea to enter this whole article in the
record.
"Mr. Combs: Mr. Marshall, may we have the usual stipulation? I
have only two other questions to ask your client. May it be stipulated
between you and the committee that in the event he declines to answer
the questions that the chair will be deemed to have admonished him
that his reasons are insufficient and he is directed to answer the ques-
tion, and that the reasons he has already given for refusing to answer
this last question be deemed applicable to the last two questions I am
about to ask?
• ' Mr. Marshall : It will be so stipulated, it being understood that the
witness in the situation which you have mentioned will be deemed to
have incorporated by this reference each and every ground of declina-
tion in refusal to answer.
"Mr. Combs: So stipulated.
' ' Chairman Burns : And the witness will also be instructed to answer
on the ground so stated as not deemed to be sufficient by the chairman.
' ' Mr. Marshall : We will stipulate the witness has been instructed by
the chairman to answer the questions.
"Mr. Combs: Thank you.
"Q. Dr. Hittelman, is it not a fact that in the year 1937, you were a
member of the Communist Party of Los Angeles County, Professional
Section, Medical Unit ?
"A. Same answer on the same grounds.
"Q. Is it not a fact that you have been affiliated with the Medical
Division of the Arts, Sciences and Professions Council in Los Angeles ?
"A. Same answer, same grounds.
"Mr. Combs: That is all.
' ' Mr. Marshall : Is the witness excused ?
"Chairman Burns: The witness may be excused.
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 221
TESTIMONY OF DR. RICHARD W. LIPPMAN, M.D.
''Chairman Burns: Dr. Lippman, you may be seated, give your
name and address.
"A. My name is Richard W. Lippman. Here is my card with the
name and address. (Home address, 11827 Chaparral Drive, Los An-
geles 49. Office address, 414 North Camden Drive, Beverly Hills, Cali-
fornia).
"Q. (By Mr. Combs) : Would you mind giving your educational and
professional background to the committee as briefly as possible, please?
"A. Yes, I would like to, Mr. Combs. My education was at the
Fieldston School in New York City. After that I received my bachelors
degree at Yale University in 1936. "While there I was elected to the
honorary scientific fraternity of Sigma Psi. I then received my M.D.
degree at Columbia University in 1940. While there I was elected to
the honorary medical fraternity of Alpha Omega Alpha. I interned at
the Beth Israel Hospital in New York City. While still an interne there
I volunteered for military service on the day after Pearl Harbor. I
spent four years in service in the Army Medical Corps, two years
overseas.
"Q. What rank, Doctor?
"A. I reached the rank of Major. After separation from the service
I became a fellow in medicine at Stanford University School of Medi-
cine from 1946 to 1948. In May, 1948, I came to this city as research
associate at the Institute for Medical Research at Cedars of Lebanon
Hospital. While at the institute I held a fellowship of the Columbia
Foundation from 1949 to 1950. I held a fellowship from the John
Simon Guggenheim Foundation in the years 1950-1951 and 1951-1952.
In recognition of my work while there I was elected to the American
Physiological Society. I was elected to the Society for Experimental
Biology and Medicine. In this society I was a member of the National
Council in the year 1951-1952.
' ' I was also elected to the Western Society for Clinical Research, the
New York Academy of Scientists, and several other honorary societies.
"I am engaged in research concerning kidney diseases and high blood
pressure. This was, I think, deemed by my colleagues to be reasonably
productive. During that period I published more than 60 scientific
papers in such recognized journals as the Archives of Internal Medicine,
the American Journal of Medicine, the American Journal of Physiology. I also
published a book in this special field.
"In December of 1951, I suddenly received notice that I had been
expelled from the staff of Cedars of Lebanon Hospital.
"Q. What was the date again?
"A. In December, 1951. I cannot tell you the exact date, but it was
just about Christmas time. This expulsion occurred without any hear-
222 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
ing, without any reasons being given, and to this day I have not even
received the courtesy of a personal notification that I was expelled.
"Q. Did you request a hearing?
"A. I did request a hearing.
"Q. How did you make that request, Doctor?
"A. I sent a letter to the board of trustees. The letter was returned
to me because they refused to accept it. Then I re-sent it by registered
mail, return receipt requested. I received a receipt that it had been
received, but I never received an answer.
"Q. Did you go out there personally to insist on a hearing?
"A. Yes.
"Q. With whom did you confer at that time?
"A. Do you mean with whom in the hospital, of whom did I per-
sonally request a hearing?
"Q. Yes.
"A. From the superintendent of the hospital.
"Q. He was who at that time?
"A. Mr. Manuel Weisberger.
"Q. Do you know if he is still there?
' ' A. I think he is still there. He told me that it was not up to him.
After all, this was three years ago. I cannot recall the exact conversa-
tion, but he told me it was not up to him, but that he would transmit my
request to the board of trustees. They apparently did not even see fit to
answer my request.
"Q. Do you know that the request was actually transmitted to the
board ?
' ' A. Well, I know that I have a receipt in my possession for the reg-
istered letter that was addressed to the president of the board of
trustees.
1 ' Q. Who was he at that time ?
"A. At that time Ben R. Meyer.
"Q. Is he still functioning in that capacity, do you know?
"A. I believe that he has been superseded as president. I would like
to say this.
"Q. Do you mind of we explore that for just a bit?
"A. If I may return to my answer of the original question.
"Q. Of course. You brought it up and I thought this would be a good
place to do this because we have no other way of getting that. I guess
we would have, but this is the better opportunity.
"How long after you received the notice of dismissal, to the best of
your recollection, was it before you went out personally to talk to the
medical director?
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 223
"A. I tried to reach him. May I tell you the exact circumstances of
how I received the notice ?
"Q. I think so.
"A. I remember that very well. I just came home from work. The
phone rang about dinner time. A friend of mine, who also worked at
the hospital, said, ' Hello, Dick. What is this I hear about your leaving ? '
I thought at first this was kind of a joke. I said, 'I am not leaving, what
are you talking about?' He said, 'Well, in the list of the staff for the
coming year, which has just been distributed in the hospital, your name
is listed as not to be reappointed.'
1 ' As you can imagine, this was quite a shock. This was the first inkling
I had that there was any difficulty of any sort. I immediately called
several people whom I knew to be prominent in the hospital to find out
what happened.
"Q. Do you remember whom you called?
"A. I don't remember precisely. I was quite excited at the time.
"Q. Had Dr. Abowitz received a similar notification before or about
that time?
"A. I think that I was the one who discovered that he was also on
that list because I called someone who had the list and asked them
to check to see who else was not to be reappointed and in that way dis-
covered the names of other individuals.
" Q. Of whom he was one ?
"A. Of whom he was one. I tried to contact the superintendent of the
hospital immediately, of course, but because of the holiday season — I
think that was the week end directly after Christmas and it was impos-
sible to contact anyone until Monday. I made the earliest possible
appointment to see the superintendent. I don't remember whether it
was Monday or Tuesday, but I got in as fast as I possibly could.
" Q. It was a matter of within two or three weeks thereafter at least ?
"A. Oh, a matter of within two or three days.
"Q. All right. Would you please continue.
"A. I would like to interject now that it was a mystery to me at the
time because I was never given any choice or reasons whatsoever.
"I now learn from previous testimony before this committee that
some of the men who have testified here, the leaders of the county
medical association, Dr. Sampson, Dr. de los Reyes, and others, have
testified that they intervened with the hospitals to expel certain indi-
viduals. I believe they mentioned the Cedars in particular. At least this
appeared in the press.
"Q. I don't recollect that exact testimony at all, Dr. Lippman, but
there was some testimony about two individuals of the Cedars having
been identified with certain organizations before the House Committee
224 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
on Un-American Activities, but your name was not included in that
connection.
" A. I may be mistaken on this, but I believe the newspaper articles
stated that they had intervened concerning these three dismissals.
"Q. I don't know about that, but I think I am pretty clear on the
record. Of course, the transcript will speak for itself on that regard.
"A. I would like to mention in this very connection, and whether it
was in the testimony here or in a statement to the papers — they may
have just made a statement to the papers in that regard.
"Q. Of course, we don't know about that.
"A. It did appear. On that basis I have taken under advisement
with my counsel the possibility of a suit against these individuals be-
cause I had a contractual relationship with the Cedars of Lebanon
Hospital, and under the laws of California I believe it is contrary to
the law for a third party to intervene between parties to a contract
which results in the breaking of a contract. At the time of my expul-
sion from the Cedars of Lebanon Hospital I was engaged in work which
had been in progress for several years which was of considerable sig-
nificance in my field. It had potential importance concerning the cause
of a disease which is very important to the people of this Country, to
the health of the people of this Country. The disease is nephritis which,
when it is related to the disease of nephrosis, accounts for about 17,000
deaths a year, according to the United States Public Health Service
statistics. We did a good deal of work concerning the cause of this
disease and its treatment. We felt that we were on the verge of much
more important discoveries. At that time I had working under me about
six or seven people in my research project. I am sure you realize in a
subject as complicated as nephritis, Bright 's disease I think is a more
common name and one you might recognize better, or kidney disease —
that it takes a great deal of time to train people to work. We had a
team which was able to work very efficiently and achieve results which
we could achieve much more quickly than at the beginning of our years
of labor. At the time of the expulsion I had about a thousand animals,
rats, which were part of a series of experiments in this field. These
animals and the work it represented involved a large investment of
government funds since the greater portion of my funds came from
the United States Public Health Service. I had funds of other founda-
tions and sources as well, but the greater proportion represented an in-
vestment of government funds in this research.
' ' Actually, I had 48 hours ' notice in which to terminate, in which my
funds were cut off, to terminate this project. I was faced not only with
the personal problems and personal situation involved, but with the
problems of the people working for me and the loss of this great invest-
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 225
ment of government funds and of labor on work which had a bearing
upon the health of the people, which I think was of significance.
"This expulsion also happened so rapidly that I was unable to make
arrangements to take care of my clinic patients. I was the founder of
the kidney disease clinic at Cedars of Lebanon Hospital, which was the
first clinic of this sort in Southern California and in the Southwest, as a
matter of fact. In a short time it had achieved the reputation as a center
for people with kidney disease and high blood pressure. I was given
no warning. I think I received the notification Friday evening, but
was unable to contact anybody over the week end. I think my first clinic
was Monday afternoon, I am not certain on the exact time sequence,
but it was in that order of magnitude. I was not permitted to enter the
building where my clinic was held. No one could inform the patients
of what happened to me. They lined up in the hall to see me. Someone
told them finally they could find me in the Research Institute. The
director of the Institute for Medical Research declined to discharge me.
I had a dual capacity at the hospital. I was in charge of the kidney
disease clinic, which was as a member of the hospital staff, and I was
Research Associate of the Institute for Medical Research in a separate
building, a separate responsibility. While I was discharged from my
position in the hospital, the director of the institute, Dr. Harry
Goldblatt, declined to discharge me because he felt no adequate grounds
existed, and my work was more than satisfactory as far as he was
concerned.
' ' The patients were told they could find me in the Research Institute.
I remember on that morning they came over to the institute to see what
had happened. Some of them were very upset and weeping. Some of the
children were sitting on the floor in the hall of the institute. I was try-
ing to make some arrangements to take care of the patients so that they
would not have to go home without treatment and without the consid-
eration that they needed.
"The effect of this action I think was detrimental to the health of
the people of this community. It was detrimental to health on at least
a two-fold basis : one, in the sense that my work was disrupted. For the
past two years, since this abrupt termination of my research, it has
been impossible for me to resume my research. The potential progress
in the control of an important disease has been arrested as a result.
I make no claim, I want to make it plain I do not make any claim that
I would have discovered anything great in this period of time, but I
think my performance in the past shows that I was capable of making
progress in this field and that the progress, at least that much which
I had already shown the capability to do, has been arrested, and the
patients for whom I had some degree of skill to apply have not been
able to get that skill applied to their cases.
226 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
"As a further evidence in this regard I might mention that many-
times I have been asked to consult concerning patients in the Cedars
of Lebanon Hospital. In spite of the fact that I had been expelled from
the staff, doctors whose patients were critically ill with kidney disease,
because of my reputation in the field, have asked me to come and see
patients so that I might help advise them how to deal with these serious
situations, many of which resulted in deaths to the patients subse-
quently.
"The hospital refused to admit me to the building. I heard that one
high individual in the hospital circles said I would not even be per-
mitted in as a visitor. I was prevented from doing anything to help
these patients. Again I don't say that I would have done the impossible
or saved any lives, but I say that it is not a very manly thing to deprive
a patient of even the possibility that someone might be able to help
them when they are facing death from a disease.
"You might also be interested to know that for the first time since
my dismissal, a couple of weeks ago I was permitted to go back in con-
sultation at the Cedars of Lebanon Hospital, to see a patient who was
very critically ill. I am happy to be able to report he became better and
went home. Incidentally, this has happened since the replacement of
Mr. Meyer as president. There is a new president at the Cedars of
Lebanon Hospital.
"Q. Who is he?
"A. George Thompson.
"Q. Would you expedite your recital in this regard, please, because
we have many other witnesses.
"A. I think this about completes what I would like to say, except
for one last statement. I want to make it clear that I do not feel the
Cedars of Lebanon Hospital is responsible for the position that they
were forced to assume. I am not a revengeful person. I think that they
were forced into this position by what I now learn to be the interven-
tion of the medical society leadership with a great deal of power to
enforce their desires upon hospitals. Hospitals depend for recognition
on agencies which are closely connected with the medical association,
consequently, disapproval by the medical association of their policies
can ruin a hospital and it can ruin a doctor. I feel that the trustees of
the Cedars of Lebanon Hospital perhaps can be characterized as men
who were not very courageous but who were forced into this position
by the policies of the medical association.
"Q. Does that conclude your statement, Doctor?
"A. Yes, sir.
"Mr. Combs: Mr. Marshall, in view of the fact that we have been
requested — you have one other client to testify before noon
"Mr. Marshall: Yes.
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 227
"Mr. Combs: Mr. Margolis has requested that we accommodate him
by putting his client on before we adjourn. In view of that situation
and in view of the fact that we have quite a number of witnesses this
afternoon and tomorrow, couldn 't we enter into an agreement now that
after the response to the first question which the witness may or may
not choose to answer, that we have the same stipulation that we have
had heretofore?
"Mr. Marshall: Yes. I will make such a stipulation, with the excep-
tion of the stipulation regarding the order of the chairman of the com-
mittee to answer each specific question.
"Mr. Combs: Yes.
"Mr. Marshall: If there will be a lot of questions?
"Mr. Combs : No, there will be very, very few.
"Mr. Marshall: We can probably handle it that way, but before we
get into that I would like to make an inquiry for the record when
Senator Burns returns to his chair.
' ' Mr. Combs : Very well.
"Q. Doctor, are you acquainted with
"Mr. Marshall: Before you ask the question would you be kind
enough to ask Senator Burns to return to his chair so that I might ask
a question ?
"Mr. Combs: I cannot make him return to his chair until he is
through.
"Mr. Marshall: No. I didn't mean make him, but ask him to come.
Thank you very much, Senator. On TV Channel 4 last night I saw
and heard an interview by a person who bore a reasonable facsimile to
the appearance and voice of Senator Burns. In that interview the per-
son purporting to be Senator Burns said, among other things, as fol-
lows : that this committee was not here to get information, that it had
all the information it wanted. Now, was that you, Senator Burns, who
made that statement?
"Senator Burns: I never made any such statement.
' ' Mr. Marshall : Would you tell us for the record what you did say
in this television interview last night?
"Chairman Burns: I would object to that very much. I am not a
witness before the committee and you are not the interrogator.
"Mr. Marshall: For the sake of the record, so that we have a com-
plete record of what the purposes of the committee are, it would seem
to me that the chairman of the committee ought to be willing to state
those purposes on the record right now.
' ' Chairman Burns : The purposes of the committee are set forth in
the resolution creating it, of which you have a copy, Mr. Marshall.
"Mr. Combs: And which you have cited many times, Counsel.
228 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
' ' Mr. Marshall : But the Senator gave the particular meaning and
application to that resolution with reference to these particular hear-
ings.
' ' Mr. Combs : Mr. Marshall, we are here to interrogate witnesses.
You are not here to interrogate members of the committee.
''Mr. Marshall: I wouldn't want to crowd the chairman for an an-
swer. He should have an opportunity to consult counsel, too.
"Mr. Combs: You wouldn't cite him for contempt?
"Mr. Marshall: No, I won't cite him for contempt either.
"Mr. Combs: I don't think you will.
' ' Chairman Burns : No.
"Mr. Combs: All right.
' ' Mr. Marshall : You don 't choose to make the statement, is that
correct ?
"Mr. Combs: Maybe he will invoke the Fifth Amendment.
"Chairman Burns: I will make my statement at the proper time,
and this is not the proper time, Mr. Marshall.
"Q. (By Mr. Combs) : Dr. Lippman, are you acquainted with Dr.
Thomas L. Perry?
"A. Are you ready for my answer?
"Q. Yes. The question was, are you acquainted with Dr. Thomas L.
Perry? To further identify Dr. Thomas L. Perry, he was the witness
I think who was first on the stand yesterday morning. He was a client
of yours, wasn't he, Mr. Marshall?
"Mr. Marshall: Yes, sir.
' ' The Witness : Senator Burns, we are in peculiar times, times when
any red blooded American would not answer the question as to the
color of his blood because it might imply that he was a subversive
individual.
"Q. (By Mr. Combs) : He might have to say it was red?
"A. That is right. I feel this business of coming before committees
for questions concerning their political opinions constitutes a trial by
ordeal and by newspaper rather than by the American way of trying a
person in a court of law. This committee reminds me, if you will for-
give the simile, of the character of Poo Bah in The Mikado by Gilbert
and Sullivan, because it combines in itself the functions of prosecutor,
judge, jury and jailor, all in one, because punishment, unofficial punish-
ment but nevertheless punishment, results from the actions of a witness
before this committee.
"Dr. Perry has appeared before this committee as well as before the
House Committee in Un-American Activities, as what is called an
unfriendly witness. For this reason, even if I wanted to answer this
question, as a matter of principle, I must decline to answer this ques-
tion on the grounds and the reasons that follow :
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 229
"First, I consider it an invasion of my right to speak or to remain
silent. I consider it an invasion of my right to associate with people
or organizations as I please, as guaranteed by the First Amendment
to the Bill of Rights of the United States Constitution, and Article I,
Section 9, of the Constitution of this State, the privileges of which I
now claim.
"Secondly, it is an attempt to expose me to the danger of a ground-
less and false prosecution for an alleged violation of a federal or state
law. Consequently, I avail myself of that constitutional right which was
intended for the protection of the innocent and from whose use no
inference of guilt can be drawn.
"I now claim the privilege contained in the Fifth Amendment of the
Bill of Rights of the United States Constitution which provides that
you cannot compel me to be a witness against myself, and Article I,
Section 13, of the Constitution of this State.
"It is an attempt to deprive me of my right to earn my livelihood,
my liberty and property without due process of law, and to deny me
equal protection of the law, which is contrary to the Fourteenth
Amendment of the Bill of Rights of the United States Constitution,
and Article I, Section 13, of the California State Constitution. I claim
the privileges under those provisions.
"I feel that this question has no materiality nor pertinency to any
lawful power of this committee.
"My final ground is that this committee sits, in my opinion, with-
out lawful authority, and exceeds its valid powers.
"Mr. Combs: May it be stipulated, counsel, that in connection with
each additional question that may henceforth be put to your client
and which he elects to refuse to answer, that his reasons for refusing
will be deemed to be those which he has just given?
"Mr. Marshall: So stipulated.
"Mr. Combs: And will it also be stipulated in each instance that
the chairman of the committe will be deemed to have delcared the rea-
sons insufficient and has directed the witness to answer?
"Mr. Marshall: In that respect I won't be able to so stipulate. I
would prefer in each case that the chairman so advise the witness.
' ' Mr. Combs : Very well. So stipulated.
"Q. Is it not a fact that you and Dr. Thomas L. Perry, who was
the first witness here yesterday morning, are brothers-in-law?
"A. Same question, same answer.
"Chairman Burns: The witness is instructed to answer.
"A. Same question, same answer.
"Chairman Burns: On the grounds of self-incrimination are not
applicable to this question. You are directed to answer the question.
"Q. (By Mr. Combs) : Have you ever been a member of the
230 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
"Mr. Marshall: Wait a minute, Mr. Combs. Will the record show
in response to the last direction by the chairman that the witness has
declined to answer upon all of the stipulated grounds ?
"Mr. Combs: Yes. Have you ever been a member of the Communist
Party or the Communist Political Association?
"A. Same question, same answer.
"Mr. Combs: It is not the same question. It is the same answer. Do
you mean to say same answer?
"Mr. Marshall: The witness wants to address himself in reply to
the last question.
' ' Mr. Combs : Your stipulation is in effect now.
"Mr. Marshall: Yes, but he wants to supplement that answer. The
stipulation does not confine us to those reasons only.
"The Witness: Very briefly.
"Mr. Combs: All right.
' ' The Witness : These questions are shutting off the flow of informa-
tion. If you have any questions you would like to ask concerning the
county medical association and other aspects in which you may be
interested, you might withdraw these questions and permit me to
answer some others.
' ' Mr. Marshall : In other words, Senator Burns, if you really want
some information about the L. A. County Medical Society situation,
I suggest that you interrogate the witness on that subject and then
proceed later with these other questions.
"Mr. Combs: I respectfully decline your suggestion. I prefer to ask
the questions we are interested in.
' ' Q. Will you answer the question, Doctor.
"A. Same question, same answer.
"Q. The same reasons?
"A. The same reasons, the stipulated reasons.
"Q. Have you ever been connected with the Community Medical
Center?
"A. Same question, same answer, same grounds, same stipulation.
"Q. It is not the same question. Your answer is the same for the
reasons already given, covered by the stipulation?
"A. I beg your pardon, that is right.
"Q. That is perfectly all right.
"A. I got confused there.
"Q. Have you ever been affiliated with the Medical Division of the
Arts, Sciences and Professions Council in Los Angeles?
"A. Same answer, same grounds, same stipulation.
' ' Q. Dr. Lippman, did you ever reside at 444 North Bundy Street ?
"A. Same answer, same grounds, same stipulation.
"Q. Did you ever reside at 4602 Anna Street in San Francisco?
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 231
"A. Would 3'ou repeat that address, please?
"Q. Yes, 4602 Anna, A-n-n-a, Street, San Francisco.
"A. Same answer, same grounds, same stipulation.
' ' Q. Is it not a fact that you resided on Anna Street in San Francisco in
October of 1946, and while living there received as a subscriber the paper
known as the Daily People's World?
"A. Same answer, same grounds, same stipulation.
"Q. Is it not true that your subscription to that paper continued
thereafter and up until the present time?
"A. Same answer, same grounds, same stipulation.
"Q. Have you ever been affiliated with the Civil Rights Congress?
"A. Same answer, same grounds, same stipulation.
"Mr. Combs: Mr. Marshall, I will ask your client about a series of
meetings similar to those I have asked your other clients, with the
names and dates, and then I will be through.
"Q. Is it not a fact that on the second day of December, 1950, you
Avere a speaker at the Arts, Sciences, and Professions membership
convention in Los Angeles and gave a report for its Medical Division?
"A. Same answer, same grounds, same stipulation.
"Q. Is it not a fact that you attended the following meetings, and
I will read them all and you can answer the question :
"A membership meeting of the Arts, Sciences and Professions Coun-
cil— these are all in Los Angeles — April 12, 1951 ;
"A meeting of the Executive Board of the Arts, Sciences and Pro-
fessions Council, Medical Division, on June 22, 1951 ;
"The Arts, Sciences and Professions Council Peace Committee, 7410
Sunset Boulevard, Los Angeles, June 27, 1951 ;
"Arts, Sciences and Professions Peace Committee, of which you
were chairman, 7410 Sunset Boulevard, July 3, 1951 ;
"A meeting of the same committee, Arts, Sciences and Professions
Peace Committee, 7410 Sunset Boulevard, July 17, 1951 ;
"Arts, Sciences and Professions Peace Comittee, of which you acted
as chairman, 7410 Sunset Boulevard, July 31, 1951 ;
"Arts, Sciences and Professions Peace Committee, of which you
acted as chairman, 7410 Sunset Boulevard, August 9, 1951;
"Arts, Sciences and Professions Council, Medical Division, 9620
Monte Mar Drive, August 12, 1951 ;
"Medical Division of the Arts, Sciences and Professions Council,
406 South Holt Street, Los Angeles, August 23, 1951 ? That is all.
"A. Same answer, same grounds, same stipulation.
"Mr. Combs: That is all.
' ' Chairman Burns : Mr. Marshall ?
"Mr. Marshall: Yes, Senator.
232 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
"Chairman Burns: The grounds so stated by the witness for re-
fusing to answer the questions regarding these meetings are ruled
insufficient by the chairman. The chairman instructs the witness to
answer the questions again.
"The Witness: Same answers, same grounds, same stipulation.
' ' Chairman Burns : Very well.
' ' Mr. Marshall : Senator Burns, since the announced purpose of this
hearing of this committe deals with a certain election of the Los
Angeles County Medical Society, this witness has some information on
that subject which he would like to give to the committee. May he be
heard now?
"The Witness: Briefly.
"Chairman Burns: The witness set the policy of refusing to give
the committee the information that it wants. He did that himself.
Getting back to the statement made by the chairman to the press yes-
terday, the statement was made that it was no surprise to the chair-
man that these witnesses who appeared yesterday and thus far today
have given the committee practically no information.
"Mr. Marshall: You do have information.
"Chairman Burns: And we did not rely on them for information;
we had other sources of information. That was the statement I made.
It is borne out thus far. With one witness we got off to a pretty good
start, but the minute the party discipline enters into the picture the
witness is stricken dumb and refuses to answer the questions or give
any further information. The committee will conduct the hearing in
its own way, Mr. Marshall. If the witness does not want to cooperate
and explain further all of the ramifications involved in this — he is
not going to be permitted to edit his testimony. He may not expand
further on this question, and he is excused.
"Mr. Marshall: You say you want information. The witness has
information about the L. A. County Medical Society.
"Chairman Burns: We will get the information our own way, Mr.
Marshall. We are not going to have it edited by this witness, or any-
body else, or by counsel.
' ' Mr. Marshall : If you don 't want the information, why don 't you
quash all the other subpenas? What is the point of taking up every-
body's time when you have all the information you want?
"Chairman Burns: May I remind you, Mr. Marshall, that counsel
for witnesses before legislative committees are before them as a courtesy.
You are here as a courtesy. You are not permitted nor granted the
light to be present except by committee permission. We have leaned
over backwards, so to speak, to give you all of the courtesy possible,
which we extended to you as a member of the bar. You are here to
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 233
advise your client, not to advise us. We have our own counsel for that
purpose.
"Mr. Marshall: Senator, I should like or I would like to say that I
disagree that a person only has a right to counsel as a matter of grace
on the part of the committee. It is my view that a witness has a con-
stitutional right to have counsel before committee hearings.
"Mr. Combs: May the witness be excused?
"Chairman Burns: He is excused. Do you have another client, Mr.
Marshall ?
"Mr. Marshall: Yes.
TESTIMONY OF DR. SAUL MATLIN, OSTEOPATHIC
PHYSICIAN AND SURGEON
"Chairman Burns: State your name and address, please, for the
record.
"A. Saul Matlin, 525 South Victory Boulevard, Burbank, California.
Home address, 7703 Shady Spring Drive, Burbank.
"Q. (By Mr. Combs) : Dr. Matlin, you are a duly licensed physician
and surgeon?
"A. Yes, I am.
"Q. And medical doctor?
"A. I am an osteopathic physician and surgeon.
"Q. About how long have you held your license to practice that
profession in California?
"A. I held that license in California since about 1947.
"Q. "Where did you get your training?
"A.I attended public schools in New York. I graduated from Brook-
lyn College before I received my professional training in Chicago. I
graduated from the Chicago College of Osteopathy. Then I returned to
New York for my interneship at the Manhattan General Hospital.
"Q. What year did you come to California?
"A. 1947.
"Q. And you have practiced here ever since?
"A. Yes.
"Q. In 1948 and thereafter were you familiar with an organization
in Los Angeles known as the California Labor School1!
"A. Mr. Combs, I decline to answer this question upon the grounds
and for the reasons as follows:
"I believe that this in an invasion of my right to speak or to remain
silent, to associate or not to associate with persons and organizations.
"It is an invasion of my rights as guaranteed by the First Amend-
ment to the Bill of Rights, and Article I, Section 9, of the Constitution
of this State, whose privileges I now claim.
234 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
"It is an attempt to expose me to the dangers of a groundless and
false prosecution for an alleged violation of federal or state law. Conse-
quently I avail myself of the constitutional right which was intended
for the protection of the innocent and from whose use no inference of
guilt can be drawn.
' ' I now claim the privilege contained in the Fifth Amendment to the
Bill of Rights, which provides that you cannot compel me to be a
witness against myself, and Article I, Section 13, of the Constitution
of this State. It is an attempt to deprive me of my right to earn a
livelihood, my liberty and property without due process of law, and
to deny me the equal protection of the laws, contrary to the Fourth
Amendment of the Bill of Rights of the United States Constitution,
and Article I, Section 13, of the Constitution of this State.
' ' This committee, I believe, sits without lawful authority and exceeds
its valid powers.
' l Lastly, this question has no materiality or pertinency to any lawful
power of this committee.
' ' Mr. Combs : Mr. Marshall, may we have the same stipulation ?
' ' Mr. Marshall : Same stipulation with respect to declinations of the
witness to answer. We will stipulate that in each case where he declines
to answer that he will be deemed to have incorporated as his grounds of
declination each and every ground which he has just stated.
"Mr. Combs: Will it also be stipulated that the chairman will be
deemed to have ruled that the grounds are insufficient and has in-
structed the witness to answer?
"Mr. Marshall: No, sir.
"Mr. Combs: The first part of the stipulation is agreed to?
"Mr. Marshall: That is right.
"Q. (By Mr. Combs) : Mr. Matlin, have you ever been a member of
the Civil Rights Congress?
' ' Mr. Marshall : For the sake of the record, it is Dr. Matlin.
"Mr. Combs: Excuse me.
"Q. Doctor Matlin, have you ever been a member of the Civil Bights
Congress?
"A. Same grounds, same stipulation.
' ' Chairman Burns : The reasons are not sufficient. You are instructed
to answer the question.
"The Witness: Same answer, same grounds, same stipulation.
"Mr. Combs: I don't think the record is clear on the last part. I
don't think his refusal to answer is in the record. Would you read the
record back? (Record read). He said the same grounds and same
stipulation, but he did not say he refused to answer the question.
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 235
' ' The "Witness : I decline to answer the question for the same reasons,
grounds and stipulations.
"Q- (By Mr. Combs) : Is it not a fact that you have been connected
with the Community Medical Center in Los Angeles ?
"A. I refuse to answer for the same grounds, same reasons, same
stipulation.
"Chairman Burns: The grounds are insufficient. The witness is
instructed to answer the question.
' ' The "Witness : I refuse again for the same grounds, reasons and
stipulations.
"Q. (By Mr. Combs) : Are you acquainted with Dr. Schoen?
"A. I again refuse for the same reasons, same grounds, same stipu-
lation.
' ' Chairman Burns : You refuse to answer the question ?
"The Witness: I refuse to answer for those reasons.
' ' Chairman Burns : The grounds are deemed insufficient. The witness
is instructed to answer the question.
"The Witness: I refuse to answer on the same grounds, the same
reasons, same stipulation.
"Q. (By Mr. Combs) : Is it not a fact you are affiliated with an
organization in Los Angeles known as the Arts, Sciences and Profes-
sions Council f
"A. I refuse to answer for the same reasons, same grounds, same
stipulation.
' ' Chairman Burns : Your reasons are insufficient. You are instructed
to answer the question.
' ' The Witness : I refuse to answer for the same reasons, same grounds
and same stipulation.
"Mr. Combs: This may not be covered by the stipulation, Mr.
Marshall.
"Q. Do you own a Dodge sedan automobile, Doctor Matlin?
"A. I refuse to answer for the same grounds, reason and stipulation.
"Q. Are you acquainted with Dr. Marvin Sure?
"A. I refuse to answer for the same reasons, grounds and stipulation.
"Q. Are you acquainted with or have you been a member of the Com-
munist Party or Communist Political Association?
"A. I refuse to answer for the same reasons, grounds and stipulation.
"Mr. Combs: Mr. Marshall, I now have a series of questions about
meetings. If you agree, we may follow the suggestion which you made in
connection with the testimony of your preceding client.
"Mr. Marshall: It is satisfactory.
"Q. (By Mr. Combs) : Is it not a fact, Dr. Matlin, that you attended
the following meetings :
236 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
"A meeting of the Arts, Sciences and Professions Council, Medical
Division at 109 North Highland Avenue, Los Angeles, on the 7th day of
September, 1951 ;
"A meeting of the Arts, Sciences and Professions Council, Medical
Division, Executive Board, at 921 South Sierra Bonita Street in Los
Angeles on the 19th day of October, 1951 ;
"A meeting of the Arts, Sciences and Professions Council, Medical
Division, 109 North Highland Avenue, on the 20th day of January,
1952;
"A meeting of the Arts, Sciences and Professions Council, Medical
Division, Executive Board, at 535| North Spaulding Street, on the 1st
day of February, 1952 ;
"A meeting of the Committee for Medical Freedom regarding the
discharge of three doctors from Cedars of Lebanon Hospital on the 25th
day of February, 1952 ;
"A meeting of the Medical Division, Executive Board, of the Arts,
Sciences and Professions Council at 535| North Spaulding Street, Los
Angeles, on the 3d day of March, 1952 ;
"A meeting of the Arts, Sciences and Professions Council, Medical
Division, 7410 Sunset Boulevard, Los Angeles, on March 14th, 1952;
"A meeting of the Arts, Sciences and Professions Council, Medical
Division, at Stanley Hall, Los Angeles, on the 18th day of April, 1952 ;
"A meeting of the Medical Division, Executive Board, of the Arts,
Sciences and Professions Council, 7410 Sunset Boulevard, Los Angeles,
on May 2, 1952 ;
"A meeting of the Arts, Sciences and Professions Council, Medical
Division, Executive Board at 7349 Pacific View Drive, Los Angeles, on
June 2d, 1952;
' ' A meeting of the Arts, Sciences and Professions Council Equal Bights
Conference at the Alexandria Hotel, on the 14th day of June, 1952 ;
"A meeting of the Medical Division of the Arts, Sciences and Profes-
sions Council at 7410 Sunset Boulevard, Los Angeles on August 22d,
1952;
"A meeting of the Medical Division of the Arts, Sciences and Profes-
sions Council at 7410 Sunset Boulevard, on October 31st, 1952;
"A general membership meeting of the Arts, Sciences and Profes-
sions Council on January 13th, 1953, at which new officers were elected ;
"A meeting of the Medical Division of the Arts, Sciences and Profes-
sions Council at 1406 South St. Andrews Place, Los Angeles, on the
16th day of January, 1953 ;
"A joint meeting of the Community Medical Center and the Arts,
Sciences and Professions Council at 1236 South Lake Street in Los
Angeles on the 26th day of February, 1953?
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 237
"A. I refuse to answer these questions on the same grounds, for the
same reasons and the same stipulations. I would also like to say, Mr.
Combs, I consider all these questions to be improper questions because
of the theory that it seems to rest on of trying to establish some sort of
guilt or to imply that something is wrong because of the associations
that you are seeking to establish.
"Chairman Burns: Just a minute, doctor. The reasons that you have
given in refusing to answer the questions, which are deemed by the com-
mittee pertinent to this inquiry, are ruled and held insufficient. You are
hereby instructed to answer these questions relative to the attendance at
these meetings.
' ' The AVitness : I decline to answer on the same grounds, for the same
reasons and stipulation.
"Chairman Burns: The witness is excused.
"Mr. Combs : That is all.
"Mr. Marshall : Senator Burns, the witness has a brief statement which
he started to make as you interrupted. May he finish that statement?
' ' Chairman Burns : If the witness requests that a statement be in-
cluded in the records of this hearing and be marked as an exhibit, we
will be happy to receive it.
' ' Mr. Marshall : May he make it now ? He does not have one prepared.
' ' Chairman Burns : He can submit it when it is prepared.
' ' Mr. Marshall : It will take about five minutes.
"Chairman Burns: That is five minutes too long, Counsel.
"Mr. Marshall : Won't you hear him now, Senator?
' ' Chairman Burns : No, the witness is excused.
TESTIMONY OF DR. P. PRICE COBBS, M.D.
' ' Mr. Combs : Now, Mr. Margolis, you have a witness that you re-
quested be heard. It was merely a question of the order of appearance.
"Mr. Margolis: This is my associate counsel, James Reese.
' ' Chairman Burns : Let the record show the presence of Mr. Ben
Margolis. What is your address?
"Mr. Margolis: 112 West Ninth Street, Los Angeles 15, California.
"Mr. Reese: My name is James Reese, 2502 South Central Avenue,
Los Angeles 11.
' ' Chairman Burns : Dr. Cobbs, would you mind standing up and
being sworn, please.
"Mr. Combs: Mr. Margolis, it is a fact, isn't it, for the sake of the
record, that you requested the committee to permit your client to go
on before the noon adjournment if possible?
"Mr. Margolis: Yes, it is. What I wanted to make clear is that this
witness is appearing here under compulsion, and the request was with
238 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
respect to the order of appearance and not with respect to his appear-
ance before the committee.
"Mr. Combs: That is entirely correct. He was served with a subpena.
"Mr. Margolis: That is correct, and he is here in response to that
subpena and for no other reason.
"Mr. Combs: I am sure that is correct.
"Q. Dr. Cobbs, you were a student at Howard University, were
you not?
"A. Yes, I was.
"Q. Did you graduate from Howard University in 1919?
"A. I did.
"Q. You are a duly licensed physician and surgeon, are you not?
"A. I am.
"Q. Did you obtain your medical degree from Howard University?
"A. I did.
"Q. You were licensed to practice your profession in California
in 1923 ?
"A. That is right.
"Q. And you have practiced here ever since?
11 A. No, I haven 't practiced here since 1925. I had the license from
1923, but I started here in 1925.
' ' Q. Are you engaged in general practice ?
"A. I am.
"Q. You are commonly known as Dr. P. Price Cobbs, are you not?
' ' A. That is right.
"Q. Dr. Cobbs, are you familiar with an organization in Los Angeles
known as the Arts, Sciences and Professions Council f
"A. Now, Counsel, this is a very peculiar situation. Since time im-
memorial in the medical profession, which has had a wonderful tradi-
tion, being very close to patients and the people, for that reason, be-
cause of the close relationship, which is closer than that of a lawyer,
judge, or anybody else, I cannot understand why a physician would
be called before this committee. There is such a strong bond between
him and his patients. Why disrupt that bond? Why go into it? I can't
see why any association in my work should be brought before a com-
mittee here publicly, before his patients, to show that he is guilty of
something when he has practiced all these years with honor and respect.
I can't see it. Based on those grounds which go back to the Fifth
Amendment, the First Amendment, the Fourteenth and Fifteenth
"Q. To the Federal Constitution?
"A. To the Federal Constitution and the California Articles in the
State Constitution, I refuse to answer on those grounds.
"Mr. Combs: May it be stipulated, Counsel, as to subsequent ques-
tions which may be asked of your client regarding organizations which
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 239
have been described as subversive or as Communist front or Commu-
nist-dominated by either official federal or state agencies, that in the
event he refuses to answer such questions his refusal may be deemed
to be predicated upon the grounds and the reasons he has already
taken ?
' ' Mr. Margolis : Mr. Combs, it seems to me that we should not assume
in advance that all of the questions will be so cut and dried, that only
the same constitutional rights are going to be violated. You may violate
others. It seems to me that he should be able to state his grounds as to
each question. However, let me hasten to reassure you that where
he relies on the same grounds we will advise him to say the same
grounds.
' ' Mr. Combs : That is entirely satisfactory. Thank you very much.
"Q. Have you been affiliated in any way as a member or sponsor of
an organization known as American Youth for Democracy, Dr. Cobbs ?
"A. I would like to add or would like to say the same grounds, and
also add that being in a minority group in America I feel very keenly
about discrimination in schools, in the medical profession —
' ' Chairman Burns : Does the witness refuse to answer the question,
if so, he had better state that first and then state his reasons.
' ' The Witness : I say I refuse to answer.
' ' Chairman Burns : On the following grounds.
' ' The Witness : On the grounds mentioned heretofore.
"Mr. Margolis: I think he indicated he meant the same grounds, but
wanted to add something.
' ' Mr. Combs : I think that is clear. Would the chairman direct him
to answer the question.
' ' Mr. Margolis : I don 't think he has finished.
"Mr. Combs: Excuse me.
1 ' The Witness : Being an American Negro I am very keenly inter-
ested in my people. In the years I have been here in Los Angeles I
think I have stayed very close to the people. I have always tried to work
with their problems. I think I have a right to belong to any organiza-
tions that I have been a member of on those grounds.
"Mr. Combs: Will the chairman instruct the witness to answer the
question ?
"Chairman Burns: Dr. Cobbs, the reasons you have given for re-
fusing to answer the question are deemed insufficient by the chair. The
chair again instructs you to answer the question.
' ' The Witness : I refuse with the same answer, same grounds, same
stipulation.
"Q. (By Mr. Combs) : Have you been connected with an organiza-
tion known as the Civil Rights Congress, Dr. Cobbs?
240 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
"A. I refuse to answer with the same answer, same grounds, same
stipulation.
"Chairman Burns: Your reasons are insufficient, Doctor, you are
instructed to answer the question.
' ' The Witness : I refuse to answer on the same grounds, same stipu-
lation.
"Q. (By Mr. Combs) : Is it not a fact that you are chairman of the
Medical Division of the Arts, Sciences and Professions Council?
"A. I refuse to answer on the same grounds, for the same reasons and
same stipulation.
"Q. Have you been associated with an organization known as the
Community Medical Center?
" A. I refuse to answer for the same grounds, same reasons and same
stipulation.
"Mr. Combs: Would you direct him to answer?
"Chairman Burns: The reasons given are invalid and the chair in-
structs you to answer the question.
' ' The Witness : I refuse to answer for the same grounds that I have
given before, same stipulation. As I said to you before, we are among
a group who are interested particularly in low cost medical care. I think
if we can get that for the people who are in the lower scale and the
lowest salary — we are always interested in trying to do something for
those people. I refuse to answer on those grounds.
"Q. (By Mr. Combs) : Have you ever been a member of the Commu-
nist Party or the Communist Political Association?
"A. I refuse to answer for the same grounds, same stipulation that
I have given before.
"Chairman Burns: Your reasons are insufficient, Doctor. The chair
instructs you to answer.
"The Witness: Same answer, same grounds, same stipulation.
"Mr. Combs: That is all.
"Chairman Burns: The witness may be excused.
"Mr. Margolis: The witness has a statement he would like to make.
' ' Chairman Burns : Very well. It will be filed as an exhibit next in
order and placed in the record. ' '
STATEMENT SUBMITTED BY DR. P. PRICE COBBS, M.D.
"I have practiced medicine in Los Angeles for many years. I have
followed the Hippocratic oath that I took when I began to practice
medicine. It has been my basis of medical ethics. I have always felt a
deep and keen interest for all community problems. I live and practice
in a section of the lowest paid minority group. I am keenly sensitive
to the problems of my people. All of the people need more adequate
low cost medical services, but the Negro people, because of the dis-
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 241
crimination which they suffer, need it even more desperately. The pur-
pose of this hearing is to attack and destroy those who are doing the
most to achieve this objective. I cannot and will not help anyone who
persists in such an unwarranted attack.
"I am a loyal American citizen and have fought for my country
with gallantry and honor in all world wars. I want the United States,
my country, to be strong. It will be helped in that direction by those
who seek to better the conditions of all the people, not by those who
are engaged in the kind of hearings being conducted here. I shall rest
my case with the people with whom I have worked and lived all my
life. P. Price Cobbs, M. D."
TESTIMONY OF DR. WILBUR Z. GORDON, M.D.
' ' Senator Thompson : The committee will be in order. Mr. Counsel,
will you call the first witness.
"Mr. Combs: Dr. Gordon, please.
"Mr. Omerberg: Mr. Combs, I wonder if you would have the indi-
viduals sitting on your side of the table identify themselves for the
record so that I can be sure there is a quorum of the committee here
this afternoon.
"Mr. Combs: Counsel, the rules of the committee provide that for
the purposes of holding hearings any one member of the committee,
when so authorized, can sit as a quorum to hold a hearing. There are
two members of the committee present at this time. The third member
is out in the hall.
"Mr. Omerberg: I just wanted to know who was sitting on your
side of the table and to know who is a member of the committee.
"Mr. Combs: This is Senator Thompson, a member of the committee,
and this is Senator McCarthy.
' ' Mr. Omerberg : Thank you.
"Mr. Combs: Your name is?
" Mr. Omerberg : Omerberg.
' ' Mr. Combs : Your initials are ?
"Mr. Omerberg: M.J.
' ' Mr. Combs : What is your address 1
"Mr. Omerberg: 1584 Crossroads of the World, Hollywood 28.
' ' Mr. Combs : You appear as counsel for Dr. Gordon ?
"Mr. Omerberg: Correct.
"Q. (By Mr. Combs to Dr. Wilbur Z. Gordon) : Your name is Dr.
Wilbur Z. Gordon ?
' ' A. That is correct.
' ' Q. What is your residence address ?
"A. 10823 South Van Ness.
242 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
" Q. You are a physician and surgeon ?
"A. I am.
"Q. You are licensed to practice in California?
"A. I am.
' ' Q. You took your medical degree at Johns Hopkins University ?
"A. I did.
" Q. You received it in 1940 ?
"A. I did.
"Q. You received your California license in 1943?
' ' A. I believe so, yes, 1943.
"Q. Have you practiced your profession in California since that
time?
"A. Except for a period of my army service, yes.
"Q. When was that, Doctor?
"A. 1944 through 1946.
" Q. Did you hold a commission ?
"A. I did.
"Q. "What was it ?
' ' A. Captain in the Medical Corps.
"Q. Are you associated with the staffs of any hospitals at the present
time, or clinics ?
"A. Would you clarify that question in terms of specific institutions
that you might be interested in ?
"Q. Yes, I would be glad to. Let's start with the Community Medical
Center. Are you affiliated with them?
"A. I wish to state in answer to that question that the question of
any association between me and the Community Medical Center is by
its very nature a question infringing upon my rights, and certainly
touches upon what appears to be the basic purpose of this committee.
This committee has subpenaed me to appear before it on what has been
announced to the press as an investigation of Communist infiltration
into the medical profession. The date set for my appearance before this
committee is Thursday, December 9, 1954. This committee then an-
nounces to the press that all witnesses appearing before this committee
en Wednesday or Thursdaj^ are unfriendly witnesses.
"Q. Excuse me. Are you reading a statement? Do you have a pre-
pared statement ?
"A. I am refreshing my memory.
" Q. You are reading it ?
"A. I am really transcribing it.
"Mr. Omerberg: They are notes.
"Mr. Combs: Mr. Witness and Counsel, the committee has a rule
which it has applied uniformly all during the hearings, that if you
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 243
have such a statement we are perfectly willing to receive it, introduce
it into evidence, and attach it as an exhibit to your testimony in the
transcript so that it will appear therein in full, to save time — so that
the committee can read it. There is no purpose in reading it aloud ex-
cept to take up the time of the committee.
< ' The Witness : Very well. I will, therefore, Mr. Combs, submit my
statement to the committee. (Handing document to Mr. Combs.)
"Mr. Combs: Thank you, Doctor. At this time I will ask that it be
attached to the transcript of the hearing in connection with your testi-
mony.
' ' The "Witness : Thank you. If I may then continue to answer this
question.
"Mr. Combs: Go ahead.
"The Witness: The question of any association of myself with an
organization which has already been labeled before this committee raises
fundamental constitutional questions which, as a good American citizen,
I propose to rely on.
"Chairman Burns: Pardon me, just a moment, if you please.
' ' The Witness : Yes, sir.
"Mr. Combs : Excuse the interruption, please. Will you continue?
"The Witness: Yes. That this same Community Medical Center, a
prepaid medical plan which has been in operation for some years, is an
answer to one of the needs of the people in the field of medicine and it
is a matter that the county medical society has indicated considers to
be not according to its own beliefs and attempts to label as subversive.
This organization, however, and others like it, some of which are much
larger, are the true targets of this investigation in the long run and
are the basic reasons why the county medical society has openly stated
they called in this committee.
' ' The Community Medical Center appears to have been chosen because
it is a relatively small group, but again I think some of the true targets
are some of the larger, more widespread programs in the community.
Yet this in the long run will stand in the way of a large section of the
people of the Los Angeles community from getting high quality medical
care at rates and methods of payment which they can afford to pay, and
if these organizations are able to be attacked and labeled and destroyed,
then the cost of medical care, already far too high, will perhaps be
exceeded. People will not be able to afford the type of service they are
entitled to as American citizens.
"In reply to this question I therefore stand on my constitutional
rights guaranteed by the State of California, Article I, Section 9, which
states that every citizen may freely speak, write or publish sentiments
on all subjects, being responsible for the abuse of that right, and that
244 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
no law shall be passed to restrain or abridge the liberty of speech or of
the press.
"Also Section 10, the people shall have the right to freely assemble
together, to consult for the common good, to instruct representatives
and petition the legislature for redress of grievances.
"Also Section 13, no person shall be compelled to be a witness against
himself.
"I also stand on the First and Fifth Amendments to the United
States Constitution, which state that no one need answer a question
which might tend to incriminate him or connect him with some act
which might possibly or conceivably be considered to be a crime or
illegal and therefore testify against himself concerning a crime of which
he might not be guilty.
"This committee, I believe, is illegally constituted to inquire into
this matter.
"Q. (By Mr. Combs) : Are you familiar, doctor, with the history of
the Community Medical Center as an organization; what I mean by
that, its inception and type of development as an organization rather
than its functional operation ?
"A. In asking this question do you mean information of a personal
nature, information I may know personally, or information I may have
gathered in a series of articles that appear about the Community
Medical Center in the Daily News or the Los Angeles Times?
"Q. From any sources.
"A. Mr. Combs
"Q. Yes.
"A. In reply to your question, on the basis of the articles which
appeared in the Daily News and in the Los Angeles Times, probably a year
or more ago, I can state I recall their general laudatory nature about
the activities of the program there. As to any personal information
which I may have about the Community Medical Center, I stand again
on my constitutional rights guaranteed by the State of California,
Article I, Section 9, Sections 10, 11, 13, and also on the First and Fifth
Amendments of the Federal Constitution. In addition to which I will
add a third : I believe this committee has no constituted authority to
investigate this question.
"Mr. Combs: Mr. Omerberg, may we have a stipulation in the in-
terests of saving time that in the event your client feels impelled to
decline to give answers to the questions that may be asked him concern-
ing organizations that have been characterized as Communist-dominated
or subversive by any federal or state agency that the reasons for his
refusal shall be deemed to be those which he has given in response to
the two questions I have just asked him?
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 245
"Mr. Omerberg: Would you read the stipulation back? (Record
read.) As the stipulation is worded I would have to refuse to agree. I
would offer to stipulate that any declination my client may give in the
future to any question, whethor or not in the opinion of this committee
they may have been cited as subvershre, or whether or not in the opinion
of this committee some other agency has cited them as subversive or
Communist-dominated, that any future answer which is refused by my
client will be refused on each and every one of the grounds which he
has heretofore made with respect to the questions which you have here-
tofore asked him.
"Mr. Combs: So stipulated. Thank you.
"Q. Now, Dr. Gordon, are you familiar with an organization known
as the Civil Rights Congress?
"A. Mr. Combs, I give the same answer on the same grounds with
the same stipulation.
"Q. You decline to answer the question?
"A. I decline to answer the question.
"Q. For the reasons heretofore given?
"A.I decline to answer the question, correct.
"Q. Have you been a member of the Civil Rights Congress?
"A. I refuse to answer that question for the same reasons, on the
same grounds, and with the same stipulation.
' ' Mr. Combs : Will the chair instruct the witness to answer the
question ?
' ' Chairman Burns : The grounds so stated by you, Dr. Gordon, are
not deemed sufficient for refusing to answer, therefore the chair directs
you again to answer the question.
' ' The Witness : May I ask the chair on what grounds my reasons are
deemed to be insufficient ?
"Chairman Burns: You have stated that your reasons for refusing
to answer the question are on the grounds that the answer might tend to
incriminate you.
' ' The Witness : I beg your pardon, sir, that is only part of my answer.
' ■ Chairman Burns : Well, let 's consider that part of it.
"The Witness: Let's consider the whole part of it.
"Chairman Burns: Let's consider that part of it. Summing it up,
grounds of self-incrimination in response to the question of whether you
have ever heard of the Civil Rights Congress or the Los Angeles Medi-
cal Center in the chair's mind is certainly not incriminating in any
way. Therefore, in the opinion of the chair they are insufficient reasons
for refusing to answer the question.
"Mr. Omerberg: Mr. Burns, do I understand from your last state-
ment you do not consider either the Civil Rights Congress or the Com-
munity Medical Center to have been engaged in any illegal activities?
246 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
"Chairman Burns: No, that is not what I said, Counsel. That is the
object of this inquiry. It is to ascertain if they were engaged in subver-
sive activity. I don 't say they are at the moment. The reason I gave was
in response to the question, 'Did the witness ever hear or have knowl-
edge of the Civil Rights Congress?' That is the question which was pro-
pounded to the witness.
' ' Mr. Omerberg : That is not my understanding of what the question
was. The last question propounded — if I am incorrect I would like Mr.
Combs to correct me — was whether or not this witness was familiar with
the Civil Rights Congress. If you want to withdraw the question and
rephrase it
' ' Chairman Burns : I will rephrase the question. Did you ever hear of
the Civil Right Congress?
' ' Mr. Combs : Would you like to have me rephrase the question ?
"Mr. Omerberg: I don't care one way or the other who rephrases the
question. You are asking the questions.
' ' Mr. Combs : I will ask it again. I think this will clarify it.
"Q. Are you familiar with an organization known as the Civil Rights
Congress?
"A. I refuse to answer for the same reasons, with the same stipula-
tion and on the same grounds.
"Mr. Combs: Now, may we have the admonition of the chair.
"Chairman Burns: Your refusal to answer the question 'are you
familiar with a certain organization' in the mind of the chair is in no
way self-incriminating. Under the laws of California there is a pro-
vision granting immunity to witnesses testifying regarding anything
of which they have knowledge. "Whether or not it would be subversive
would be covered by the immunity granted a witness before such a com-
mittee. Therefore, there is no possible way of incriminating him on a
violation of any law. The reasons he states are insufficient. It is impos-
sible to incriminate him.
"Mr. Omerberg: I am sure you know, Mr. Burns, that the law you
refer to provides no protection against any federal prosecution.
' ' Mr. Combs : Counsel, as long as we are getting into this somewhat
parenthetical discussion about the technicalities of the law, may I point
out to you that there is and has been a statutory provision in Cali-
fornia for a good many years providing that a committee functioning
under the authority of the California State Legislature has the power
to confer immunity from criminal prosecution on any witness who
appears before a committee. The witness then may be compelled to
either answer the question or suffer a possible prosecution for contempt.
The time to raise the objection concerning his possible prosecution in a
federal forum is at the time the transcript of that testimony is sought
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 247
to be introduced in the federal forum. At that time the objection as to
incrimination, in any opinion, is quite sound. But that is before the
federal body and not the state forum. There are decisions to that effect
which are binding and have never been reversed. That is our under-
standing of the condition of the law.
"Now, in this particular situation the witness has been asked as to
his familiarity with an organization. He has seen fit to refuse to answer
the question for the reasons heretofore given. Whether in your opinion
or his they are invalid or valid is more or less beside the point. The
chair has already ruled that in his opinion the grounds are invalid and
your client has been instructed to answer the question. To engage
in colloquy between you, your client, me and Senator Burns, I think is
simply time-consuming. We have a stipulation now in effect. If your
client sees fit not to answer a question all he has to do is invoke his rea-
sons and apply the stiplation and we will ask the next question.
"Mr. Omerberg: I agree that it is time-consuming. I am just sitting
here observing that all of this has occurred because my client asked an
innocent question and the chairman chose to answer it. If this has been
a waste of time, as I suspect in some respects it may have been, why, I
don't think that any censure should be placed on the witness.
"Chairman Burns: Does the witness refuse to answer the question?
If so, on what grounds?
"Mr. Omerberg: Do it again.
' ' The Witness : I refuse to answer the question on the grounds already
stated, for the reasons given, and with the stipulations.
• ' Chairman Burns : Very well.
"The Witness: All of the stipulations.
"Q. (By Mr. Combs) : Have you ever been a member of the Medical
Division of the Arts, Sciences and Professions Council in Los Angeles ?
"A. I refuse to answer this question, Mr. Combs, for the same rea-
sons, on the same grounds and with the same stipulations.
■ ' Chairman Burns : Your grounds are deemed insufficient and the
chairs instructs you to answer the question.
' ' The Witness : I refuse to answer the question for the same reasons,
on the same grounds, and with the same stipulation.
"Q. (By Mr. Combs) : Were you here yesterday, Dr. Gordon?
' ' A. May I ask the legislative purpose of that question ?
"Q. I think not. It is a perfectly proper question in my mind. You
can ask the chair to rule on its materiality if you wish.
"Mr. Omerberg: I would like to know the materiality.
1 ' Mr. Combs : I don 't mind explaining the reason for it. If you were
here yesterday there was certain testimony adduced before the com-
mittee. I want to know whether or not you heard that testimony. If you
248 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
did hear it I want to ask you some questions about it. If you were
not here it obviously would be pointless to do so.
' ' The Witness : I was not at this meeting yesterday at any time.
"Q. (By Mr. Combs) : Are you familiar with a booklet which was
issued by the Arts, Sciences and Professions Council of Los Angeles
and which was described yesterday by a witness as entitled 'Yours for
a Genuine Brotherhood'?
"A. Mr. Combs, would you describe the pamphlet that you mentioned
in greater detail, including what its contents were?
"Q. I cannot describe the contents because it comprises something
like 50 pages.
"A. What is it about?
"Q. It primarily concerns itself with alleged discrimination in hos-
pitals in the City of Los Angeles, or the immediate vicinity of that
city. It was issued, according to the testimony, by the Arts, Sciences
and Professions Council, Medical Division, and was circulated at meet-
ings held by the Medical Division of that organization.
"A. I decline to answer that question on the grounds already stipu-
lated. However, if what you say was in that pamphlet it sounds like it
must have been something rather worthwhile, if it pointed out some
of the inequities in our present society.
"Q. You don't know anything about it yourself, do you?
' ' A. Are you asking about the pamphlet or are you asking about my
knowledge of inequities in society ?
"Q. I asked you if you knew anything about the booklet. You said
you refused to answer on the grounds that it might tend to incriminate
you, and for the other reasons you have heretofore given. Then you
asked me to describe it in more detail. I did so to the best of my ability,
and you began to editorialize on its contents.
"A. On the basis of what you said, Mr. Combs.
"Q. Do you have any first hand knowledge of the booklet?
"A. I give the same answer. I refuse to answer for the grounds,
reasons and stipulations already agreed to.
"Mr. Combs : Will the chair direct the witness to answer the question.
"Chairman Burns: The grounds stated for the refusal to answer
the question are insufficient, Doctor, and you are instructed to answer
the question.
' ' Mr. Omerberg : I think I ought to point out in this type of question,
Mr. Combs, or Mr. Burns, or both of you, that in all fairness to the
witness if you are going to now order him to answer the question about
his familiarity concerning a document with as limited a description
as Mr. Combs was able to give, that the least this committee could do
would be to show the pamphlet to the witness and let him examine it.
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 249
"Chairman Burns: If the witness does not know, he can certainly
say he does not know.
"Mr. Omerberg: I do not want to engage in argument with you,
but I have a strong suspicion that in my own history there are a good
many pamphlets and books which I have read which I don't remember,
especially from the loose sort of description which Mr. Combs gave. A
look at it might serve some purpose.
1 ' Chairman Burns : If you were asked a question of whether or not
you remembered it and you did not, you would say, ' I don 't remember. '
The witness has the same privilege here.
1 ' Mr. Omerberg : The witness does not have to answer it the same
way you would, Mr. Burns.
1 ' Chairman Burns : He can answer any way he pleases, but he has
not answered it yet.
"The Witness: Considering the whole atmosphere in which this
hearing is held, the publicity and the forces at play here at this meeting,
I stand on my constitutional rights to refuse to answer this question
that are already stipulated and agreed upon.
"Q. (By Mr. Combs) : For the reasons heretofore given?
"A. For the reasons heretofore given.
' ' Mr. Combs : Now, Mr. Witness and Counsel, I intend to ask a series
of questions about meetings. I would prefer to ask all of the questions
first — there are about six — and then the witness can answer in any way
he pleases about all of them. Is that satisfactory?
"Mr. Omerberg: Can you tell me what the meetings are?
' ' Mr. Combs : Yes, of the Arts, Sciences and Professions Council.
1 * Mr. Omerberg : In that case you may do it.
"Mr. Combs: All right.
"Q. Is it not a fact, Dr. Gordon, that on the seventeenth day of
August, 1951, at 7410 Sunset Boulevard, Los Angeles, you attended a
meeting of the Medical Division of the Arts, Sciences and Professions
Council;
' ' And is it not a further fact that on the twenty- third day of August,
1951, at 406 South Holt Street in the City of Los Angeles you attended
a meeting of the Medical Division of the Arts, Sciences and Professions
Council;
"And is it not a further fact that on the fourteenth day of March,
1952, at 7410 Sunset Boulevard, Los Angeles, you attended a meeting
of the Medical Division of the Arts, Sciences and Professions Council;
"And is it not also true that on the eighteenth day of April, 1952,
you attended a forum meeting of the Medical Division of the Arts,
Sciences and Professions Council in the City of Los Angeles at Stanley
HaU;
250 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
"And is it not a further fact that on the fourteenth day of June,
1952, you attended a meeting of the Arts, Sciences and Professions
Council Equal Bights Conference held in the Alexandria Hotel in Los
Angeles ;
' ' And is it not a further fact that you were a speaker on the thirty-
first day of October, 1952, at a meeting of the Medical Division of the
Arts, Sciences and Professions Council which was held at 7410 Sunset
Boulevard, Los Angeles?
"A. I, of course, decline to answer this question on the grounds
which I will give in a moment. I also point out that these questions
avoid the situation within the Los Angles County Medical Association
and the methods that they used to attempt to drive out of the mem-
bership the doctors of independent mind and thought on political and
economic questions as they affect medicine, in order to dominate the
association so completely that no doctor will be able to express with
freedom his beliefs as an individual.
"The grounds for my refusal to answer are according to the Con-
stitution of the United States, Article I, Sections 9, 10, and 13.
"Q. They are covered by your stipulation?
"A. That is right. I refuse to answer on the basis of the grounds
heretofore made, and the stipulation.
' ' Mr. Combs : May we have a ruling ?
' ' Chairman Burns : Your reasons for refusing to answer the ques-
tion are insufficient. You are instructed to answer.
"The Witness: I decline to answer on the same grounds.
"Q. (By Mr. Combs) : Are you now or have you ever been a mem-
ber of the Communist Party or the Communist Political Association?
"A. I decline to answer that question on the grounds already stated,
according to the constitutional points mentioned and the stipulations
that have been agreed upon.
"Mr. Combs: That is all. May the witness be excused?
"Chairman Burns: The witness may be excused.
WRITTEN STATEMENT SUBMITTED BY DR. WILBUR Z. GORDON, M.D.
Committee Exhibit No. 17
"This committee has subpenaed me to appear before it on what has
been announced to the press as an investigation of ' Communist infiltra-
tion into the Medical Association.'
' ' The date set for my appearance before this committee is Thursday,
December 9, 1954. The committee then announces to the press that
all witnesses appearing before this committee on Wednesday and
Thursday are unfriendly witnesses. Thus, this committee has already
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 251
attempted to implicate me and to create the public impression that I
am involved in a so-called plot.
"It is not I, but this committee which is unfriendly and actually
involved in a plot. There is a plot all right! But the plot is one of a
few leaders of the Los Angeles County Medical Society who, by or-
ganizing in cooperation with this committee a hue and cry of Commu-
nism and Communist plot, are really out to make the membership of
the Los Angeles County Medical Society a heil-shouting ya-voting
appendage to the high-handed decisions of the board of the association.
"They propose and are working actively to eliminate independent
and dissident opinion from the association. These leaders consider
themselves so vulnerable that when two candidates for councilors, who
were members in good standing, received 22 percent of the total asso-
ciation vote, they became hysterical and called it a Communist plot.
"The platform of these two physicians had nothing whatsoever to
do with Communism or Socialism. But these frightened, narrow men
feel threatened by any program of social welfare and democracy. They
feel that all who do not agree with them on every social and political
question must be subversive. And they are working hard to make the
public believe it.
"But let the public know what the program of these two physicians
was. Let the public judge if it was subversive.
"The platform had as its main points: (1) Make the association's
operation more democratic and more responsible to the will of the
majority by having more business meetings at which new business
may be introduced and discussed. At present, there are only two meet-
ings a year — nomination and election meetings at which no new busi-
ness may be brought up.
"(2) End discrimination in all hospitals in Los Angeles County
both as respects to patients and the medical and nursing staff. This
could not be considered extreme because many hospitals, such as Queen
of Angels, County Hospital, and Temple, among others, were already
practicing this policy.
" (3) Act to make the association work for more humanitarian goals
in the community rather than conduct a narrow defense of the eco-
nomic interests of its members. Along this line, these candidates sup-
ported an integrated program of hospital construction, a new county
contagious disease and TB hospital. They urged active participation
in the campaign to eliminate smog and to end the primitive sewage and
refuse disposal system.
"(4) Act in closer cooperation with the Health Department for the
improvement of the health standards of the community.
"This platform and campaign so alarmed some of these leaders of
the association that they called in the editors of a lunatic-fringe hate
252 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
sheet. Two separate copies of an issue of this publication, vilifying
members of the association who openly supported the program, were
mailed to every member of the association on the association's address-
ing machine. In spite of this, a sizeable vote was registered for the
viciously maligned candidates.
"Later, many of us, in concert with leading physicians of national
stature, campaigned against a political conformity oath for member-
ship within the society and registered a fair minority vote. The validity
of that minority vote is illustrated amply this week by the hearings
conducted by this committee and the actions of the leaders of the as-
sociation.
"I deeply resent this attempt to impugn my reputation and will
take every proper means to correct this total distortion of my activities.
(Signed) W. Z. Gordon, M.D."
TESTIMONY OF LENORE SUTTON
"Q. (By Mr. Combs) : Would you give the reporter your address,
please ?
"A. I feel that this committee is here
"Q. Wait a minute. There is a question pending. We asked you to
give us your address.
"Mr. Omerberg: This may be a situation, Mr. Combs, in which the
witness has every right to refuse an address in view of the lists of
questions and addresses which you have been reading off here while
I have been here today. Before you make any presumptions about your
rights, I think you should give the witness a chance to answer the
question.
"Mr. Combs: This question, Counsel, is merely intended to develop
for the record her present residence address, not where she lived in
the past, which are the questions you are referring to.
"Mr. Omerberg: I am not necessarily referring to addresses in the
past. Let me consult with my client for a moment.
"Mr. Combs: All right.
' ' Mr. Omerberg : The witness will answer.
"The Witness: My address is 3342 West 27th Street, Los Angeles.
' ' Mr. Combs : Thank you.
"Q. How long have you resided at that address?
"A. Approximately two years.
"Q. What is your occupation?
"A. I am unemployed.
"Q. Were you ever employed by Dr. Wilbur Z. Gordon, who pre-
ceded you on the stand?
"A. Since it has been stated in the daily press that this committee
is here at the request of the Los Angeles County Medical Association
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 253
to investigate subversive activities in the medical profession, and I feel
that this committee is here to implement attacks upon professional and
nonprofessional people who support low-cost medical care, who sup-
port non-discrimination in medical facilities, I cannot answer this ques-
tion.
1 ' I further feel that this is a trial, even though it is not so stated, of
political beliefs and has nothing whatsoever to do with professional
competency.
"Further, I feel that you are infringing upon my rights as an
individual to think and speak and assemble with others as I choose.
"Further, I feel if I answer this question that this would be an
abuse of the First and Fifth Amendments. I feel that this committee
is illegally constituted. And further, I feel that I am not compelled to
be a witness against myself because I feel that the purpose in being
here is to smear people who support low-cost medical care, who are
against racial discrimination in medical facilities.
"Therefore, I will not serve this committee in any way in giving
them any kind of information or any kind of association which might
in any way help them to engage or help some court or federal agency
in false prosecutions.
"I rely on the First and Fifth Amendments of the United States
Constitution, and also Article I, Sections 9, 10 and 13 of the California
State Constitution.
"Mr. Combs: Did the witness include the Fifth Amendment?
"Mr. Omerberg: She did, and if there is any question about it I
would like to have it understood at this time that the witness did claim
the privilege as provided by the Fifth Amendment of the United States
Constitution, as well as the First Amendment and as well as Article I,
Sections 9, 10 and 13 of the California Constitution, and the further
ground that the committee is illegally constituted. I will stipulate that
her refusals in the future may be based on all of the grounds which
have been stated, in addition to any others she may have.
"Mr. Combs: "Will you further stipulate that the chair will be
deemed to have ruled that her reasons for refusing to answer are in-
sufficient ?
' ' Mr. Omerberg : No, sir.
"Mr. Combs: You will not so stipulate?
"Mr. Omerberg: That is correct.
' ' Mr. Combs : Very well.
' ' Chairman Burns : The chair holds that the reasons for refusing to
answer are insufficient and asks the witness to answer the question, and
so instructs her.
' ' The Witness : I still decline to answer that question on the previous
grounds stated, the First and Fifth Amendments.
254 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
"Mr. Omerberg: That is all right.
"Mr. Combs: It is covered by your stipulation, Mrs. Sutton.
"The Witness: Thank you.
"Q. (By Mr. Combs) : Is your husband's name Ronald Sutton?
"A. I refuse to answer on the same grounds previously stated.
' ' Chairman Burns : Well now, you certainly can 't be incriminated
for refusing to answer a question like that. There is no question about
that being insufficient. You are instructed to answer.
' ' The Witness : I still decline to answer that question on the grounds
previously stated and so stipulated.
"Q. (By Mr. Combs) : Are you married?
"A. I still decline to answer — not still decline, but I decline to an-
swer this question on the grounds previously stated and so stipulated.
"Chairman Burns: The same ruling from the chair. You are in-
structed to answer the question.
' ' The Witness : I refuse to answer this question on the same grounds
previously stated.
' ' Mr. Omerberg : Before we go any further, Mr. Combs
' ' Mr. Combs : Let me make one statement.
"Mr. Omerberg: No. I want to find out whether or not the prior
order of the chair had an answer by the witness. She answered this
last order to answer with a declination, but I don't know whether she
answererd
' ' Mr. Combs : Let 's ask the reporter to read it and make sure.
"Chairman Burns: I think she did. (Whereupon a portion of the
record was read.)
' ' Mr. Combs : I am now about to ask a series of questions about meet-
ings. I think all of them relate to the Arts, Sciences and Professions
Council, Medical Division.
"Mr. Omerberg: I will anticipate you, Mr. Combs, in this matter.
• ' Mr. Combs : Just a moment.
' ' Mr. Omerberg : All right. I thought you were through.
' ' Mr. Combs : With one exception which relates to the Community
Medical Center, Los Angeles.
"Mr. Omerberg: This witness does not care to answer questions in
a group.
"Mr. Combs: She intends to use the stipulation as to each one?
"Mr. Omerberg: I don't know what her intentions are.
"Mr. Combs: I will ask them anyway.
" Q. Is it not a fact, Mrs. Sutton, that you attended a meeting of the
Medical Division of the Arts, Sciences and Professions Council at 830
North Melrose Hill
"A. Pardon me just a moment. I am sorry.
"Q. on May 11, 1951 ?
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 255
"Mr. Omerberg: You asked her to state her name at the outset of the
hearings. Her name was stated as Lenore Sutton. There has been a
refusal to answer with respect to the marriage status. Either we are
going to get involved in a lot of quibbling or you will have to drop
the word 'Mrs.'
"Mr. Combs: Shall I use the word 'Miss'?
"Mr. Omerberg: I believe you could just say Lenore Sutton.
■ ' Mr. Combs : Shall I say Lenore Sutton every time ?
"Mr. Omerberg: I don't care whether you say it every time or not,
or whether you say it at all. Just don't use an appellation which desig-
nates the status unless you want to stipulate to the fact that the use
of it and the response on her part does not have any signficance.
"Mr. Combs: I will do the best I can under the circumstances. If I
were to call her 'Madame Witness,' would that be satisfactory?
"The Witness: I think 'Witness' would be satisfactory, Mr. Combs.
"Mr. Combs: All right.
"Q. Is it not a fact that you attended a meeting of the Medical Divi-
sion of the Arts, Sciences and Professions Council at 830 North Mel-
rose Hill, which was a private residence in Los Angeles, on the 11th
day of May, 1951 ?
"A. Has someone testified that I was at this meeting which you
describe ?
"Q. I am not answering questions, Madame Witness, that is your
role.
"A. In that case, Mr. Combs, I shall have to decline to answer that
question and I shall take the privilege of the First and Fifth Amend-
ments of the United States Constitution, and also Article I, Sections
9, 10 and 13, of the California State Constitution.
"Q. Is it not a fact that on the 12th day of August, 1951, at 9620
Monte Mar Drive, a private residence in Los Angeles, you attended a
meeting of the Medical Division of the Arts, Sciences and Professions
Council?
"A. It would appear to me that someone or something had stated
or given you the idea that I was at this meeting that you describe and
previously described and, therefore, it also occurs to me that it is a
strict American tradition that when you are accused of something, the
accused is faced by the accuser. Therefore, I ask this question: Did
someone state that I was at a meeting that you have just described?
"Q. I will give you the same answer I gave to your previous ques-
tion : I am asking the questions and not you.
"A. I understand that, sir. Therefore, I would decline to answer
that question on the First and Fifth Amendments of the United States
Constitution and on Article I, Sections 9, 10, and 13, of the Constitu-
tion of the State of California.
256 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
' ' Q. Very well. Next question : Is it not a fact that on the seventeenth
day of August, 1951, you attended a meeting of the Medical Division
of the Arts, Sciences and Professions Council at 7410 Sunset Boulevard,
Los Angeles?
"A. It also appears to me that you are trying in some way to asso-
ciate me with this organization that you have mentioned. I also feel
that along with the doctors subpenaed here yesterday and today that
you are trying to smear me. Therefore, I decline to answer this ques-
tion on the grounds of the First and Fifth Amendments of the United
States Constitution, and Article I, Sections 9, 10, and 13, of the Cali-
fornia State Constitution, and further on the grounds that this com-
mittee is illegally constituted.
"Q. It is not a fact that on the twenty-third day of August, 1951,
you attended a meeting of the Medical Division of the Arts, Sciences
and Professions Council at 406 South Holt Street, Los Angeles?
"A. I decline to answer that question on the grounds previously
stated.
"Mr. Combs: Now, Mr. Reporter, will you turn back to the inception
of the witness' testimony and give us the address that she stated for
the record?
"(Record read as requested.)
"Q. (By Mr. Combs) : Did you ever live at 406 South Holt Street,
Los Angeles, and were you living there on August 23, 1951 ?
' ' A. I refuse to answer that question for the same reasons previously
stated.
"Q. Is it not a fact that you attended a meeting of the Medical
Division of the Arts, Sciences and Professions Council on September 7,
1951, at 109 North Highland Street, Los Angeles, which is the resi-
dence
"A. I decline to answer that question on the grounds previously
stated.
"Q. Is it not a fact that on the thirtieth day of October, 1931, you
attended a meeting of the Medical Division of the Arts, Sciences and
Professions Council at 7410 Sunset Boulevard, Los Angeles?
"A. You said 1931. I was only three years old at that time, sir.
"Q. 1951. I am sorry.
"Mr. Omerberg: Do we have the question now?
"The Witness: Would you repeat the question?
"Q. (By Mr. Combs) : Is it not a fact that on the thirtieth day of
October, 1951, you attended a meeting of the Executive Board of the
Medical Division of the Arts, Sciences and Professions Council at 7410
Sunset Boulevard, Los Angeles?
" A. I should like to state that under any other circumstances, if this
was not a hearing of a committee of this type, that I would be happy
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 257
to discuss low-cost medical care, and whether or not there is racial
discrimination in hospitals, whether or not we could do something
about health hazards in this city and county. However, since these
questions are being asked by this kind of a committee, and because I
feel it is illegally constituted, I shall have to refuse to answer that
question on the grounds previously stated.
"Q. Is it not a fact that on December 7, 1951, you attended a
meeting of the Executive Board of the Medical Division of the Arts,
Sciences and Professions Council at 830 North Melrose Hill, Los
Angeles ?
"A. I should also like to state that this committee is displaying all
sorts of infringements upon my rights as a citizen. My rights to have
ideas. I feel that we can only have growth through free expression of
ideas and through free exchange. However, obviously there is no ex-
change of ideas between us. Therefore, I shall have to refuse to answer
this question on the grounds previously stated.
"Q. Is it not a fact that on the eleventh day of January, 1952, you
attended a meeting of the Executive Board of the Medical Division
of the Arts, Sciences and Professions Council at 7410 Sunset Boule-
vard, Los Angeles?
"A. Here I should like to state that this committee is trying to
smear and intimidate witnesses, not only witnesses, but people who
read the daily press and who are at these hearings today as an audience.
I refuse to be intimidated. Therefore, I refuse to answer the question
on the grounds previously stated.
"Q. Is it not a fact that on the first day of February, 1952, you at-
tended a meeting of the Executive Board of the Medical Division of
the Arts, Sciences and Professions Council at 535^ North Spaulding
Street, Los Angeles?
"A. Would you repeat the question, please, Counsel?
"Q. Is it not a fact that on the first day of February, 1952, you
attended a meeting of the Executive Board of the Medical Division of
the Arts, Sciences and Professions Council at 535£ North Spaulding
Street, Los Angeles?
"A. You are asking me questions which infringe upon my rights.
Were I to answer these questions I would be abusing the Bill of Rights,
also the California State Constitution. I feel that you do not have the
right to ask these questions. I feel that I definitely should not answer
them. Therefore, I decline to answer on the grounds previously stated.
"Q. Is it not a fact that on the eighteenth day of February, 1952,
you attended a meeting of the Executive Board of the Medical Board
of the Arts, Sciences and Professions Council at 830 North Melrose
Hill, Los Angeles?
"A. I decline to answer on the grounds previously stated.
258 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
"Q. Is it not a fact that on the fourteenth day of March, 1952, you
attended a meeting of the Medical Division of the Arts, Sciences and
Professions Council at 7410 Sunset Boulevard, Los Angeles?
"A. I decline to answer on the grounds previously stated.
"Q. Is it not a fact that on the sixteenth day of May, 1952, you at-
tended a meeting of the Executive Board of the Medical Division of the
Arts, Sciences and Professions Council, at 7410 Sunset Boulevard, Los
Angeles ?
"A. Has someone stated that I attended this meeting?
"Q. I will make the same answer I gave you when you asked the same
question twice before.
' ' A. Then I shall give you the same answer : I decline to answer on
the grounds previously stated.
"Q. Is it not a fact that on the fourteenth day of June, 1952, you at-
tended a meeting of the Arts, Sciences and Professions Equal Eights
Conference held at the Alexandria Hotel, Los Angeles?
" A. I decline to answer on the grounds previously stated.
"Q. Is it not a fact that on the seventh day of July, 1952, you at-
tended a meeting of the Executive Board of the Arts, Sciences and Profes-
sions Council, Medical Division, at 830 North Melrose Hill, Los Angeles?
"A. It was stated in the newspapers that this committee has come to
Los Angeles at this time at the request of the county medical society. I
feel that this committee is acting as a trigger mechanism in the estab-
lishment of political conformity as a qualification for professional com-
petency and in the practice of medicine. Therefore, I decline to answer
the question on the grounds previously stated.
"Q. Is it not a fact that on October 31, 1952, you attended a meeting
of the Medical Division of the Arts, Sciences and Professions Council at
7410 Sunset Boulevard, Los Angeles ?
"A. I decline to answer on the grounds previously stated.
" Q. Is it not a fact that on the sixteenth day of January, 1953, you
attended a meeting of the Arts, Sciences and Professions Council, Medi-
cal Division at 1407 South St. Andrews Place, Los Angeles ?
"A. I will not in any way support this committee in its attempt to
smear any groups or any witnesses that have appeared at this committee
hearing, or whose names have been thrown around. Therefore, I decline
to answer on the grounds previously stated.
"Q. This is the next to the last one — and this is the other one, Coun-
sel, that I mentioned to you earlier — is it not a fact that on the twenty-
fifth day of June, 1954, you attended a meeting of the Community
Medical Foundation in Los Angeles ?
"Mr. Omerberg : Where was that meeting supposed to have been held,
Counsel ?
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 259
"Q. (By Mr. Combs) : It was held, according to my information, at
the office of the foundation.
"A. Do you have any information as to what there is that went on
there that was illegal, or anything that you could help me with ?
"Q. I can help you a little, maybe. It was the eighth annual meeting
of the foundation.
"A. That does not sound very illegal to me anyway. Low-cost medical
care doesn't and an inter-racial medical center certainly doesn't sound
illegal, but I do decline to answer the question on the grounds I might
incriminate myself.
"Q. And for the reasons previously stated?
"A. For the reasons previously stated and so stipulated.
' ' Chairman Burns : I want to ask the witness a question. She stated
in her answer the aims and purposes of this organization ?
"The Witness : I feel what I have just stated is a matter of common
knowledge and has certainly been publicized in the papers in the last
few days.
' ' Chariman Burns : As long as you have testified regarding the aims
and purposes of this organization, the chairman instructs you to answer
the question exactly as it was propounded to you by Counsel. Did you
attend the meeting ?
' ' The Witness : Could I hear the question again ?
(Question read.)
"The Witness: I believe that I did answer that question, when I
answered it I declined to answer it. Actually, I declined to answer that
question, and I declined on the grounds previously stated. And I decline
again on the grounds previously stated, if that will help the record.
"Q. (By Mr. Combs) : Are you now or have you ever been a member
of the Communist Party or the Communist Political Association ?
"A. I decline to answer that question on the grounds previously stated.
"Mr. Combs: That is all.
"Mr. Omerberg: Is the witness excused?
"Mr. Combs: Yes.
"Mr. Omerberg: There is a statement here by Lee Sutton that she
would like to have filed and made a part of the record. It is one page,
with one line on the second page.
1 ' Mr. Combs : Thank you. ' '
STATEMENT SUBMITTED BY LEE SUTTON
Committee Exhibit No. 18
"The Burns Committee states that it is appearing in Los Angeles at
this time at the request of the Los Angeles County Medical Society. In
view of this I believe that the committee is acting as a trigger mecha-
260 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
nism in the establishment of political conformity as a qualification for
the practice of medicine.
"Although the Burns Committee states that it is here to investigate
'subversive activities' in the medical profession, I believe that the com-
mittee, itself, is engaging in activities which are un-American by sup-
porting and implementing attacks upon low-cost medical care, and those
professional and non-professional people who have supported this type
of care.
1 ' The field of medicine, as well as all scientific fields, can flourish only
with a free exchange of ideas, even though these ideas may appear to
be of a minority opinion.
"We, as citizens, must also live in an atmosphere of free exchange
of ideas. The committee in its investigation infringes upon this atmos-
phere. Therefor, I consider it my duty to decline to answer the questions
of the committee by claiming the privileges guaranteed to me by the
First and Fifth Amendments to the United States Constitution, and
Article I, Sections 9, 10, and 13, of the Constitution of the State of
California. ' '
TESTIMONY OF DR. MARVIN SURE, OPTOMETRIST
' ' Chairman Burns : Give your name and address to the reporter.
"A. My name is Marvin Sure, 7349 Pacific View Drive, Los Angeles.
' ' Chairman Burns : Is counsel identified for the record ?
"Mr. Rykoff: Richard L. Rykoff.
"Q. (By Mr. Combs) : Dr. Sure, are you a doctor of optometry?
"A. Yes, I am.
"Q. Would you mind telling us where you took your work?
"A. In Chicago, Illinois.
"Q. At what institution ?
"A. The Northern Illinois College of Optometry.
"Q. You obtained your degree in what year?
"A. 1940, I believe.
"Q. That is close enough. How long have you practiced your profes-
sion in California ?
"A. Since 1946, when I got out of the Navy.
"Q. Did you hold a commission in the Navy?
"A. Yes, "i did.
"Q. What was that?
"A. My rank when I left was Lieutenant, Junior Grade.
"Q. You practice in Glendale?
"A. Yes, I do.
"Q. Are you familiar with an organization known as the Arts, Sci-
ences and Professions Council of Los Angeles f
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 261
"A. I have heard testimony given and I have seen reports in the
press mentioning the Arts, Sciences and Professions Council in relation
to equal rights for negro professionals, in relation to low-cost medical
care and medical care for working people. Since the committee deems
this subversive, I find I must decline to answer the question.
"Q. For what reasons?
"A. The grounds that I decline to answer on are the historic pro-
visions of the United States Constitution, Amendments one and five,
which state that I need not give testimony that may be used against me
which inquire into my beliefs and associations; also the provisions of
the California State Constitution, Article I, Sections 9 and 13 — all of
these provisions which were created to protect innocent people against
government abuse.
' ' Mr. Combs : Counsel, would you be willing to enter into a stipula-
tion, in the interest of saving time, that in the event your client declines
to answer subsequent questions, that his refusal may be deemed to have
been made for the reasons and on the grounds that he has just enumer-
ated?
"Mr. Rykoff : Yes. We will stipulate that each refusal may be deemed
to incorporate all of the objections given.
"Mr. Combs: Thank you very much. Is that satisfactory with you?
1 ' The Witness : Yes, sir.
"Mr. Combs: Would you be willing to add that in each instance
where the witness refuses, that the chairman will be deemed to have
ruled that the grounds are insufficient and has instructed him to answer
the question?
"Mr. Rykoff: Is this statement to be that every time the question is
asked the chairman will be deemed to have instructed him ?
"Mr. Combs: Yes.
1 ' Chairman Burns : Every time the answer is refused.
"Mr. Rykoff: I think I would prefer with respect to any specific
questions, where the chairman feels the grounds are insufficient, that
he so indicate.
"Mr. Combs: Very well.
"Q. Is it not a fact, Dr. Sure, that you are and have been for four
years last past a member of the Medical Division of the Arts, Sciences
and Professions Council of Los Angeles ?
"A. It seems strange to me, Mr. Combs, that you should deem sub-
versive such activities as have been mentioned, such as low-cost medical
care, low-cost health care
"Chairman Burns: Just a moment, Doctor. You are not entitled
to such a presumption as you have just spoken of. We have not stated
that we consider the Arts, Sciences and Professions Council subversive.
That is your idea. We have made no such statement here.
262 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IX CALIFORNIA
"The Witness: On any free forum, in a free market place of ideas,
I would be willing to discuss these issues. However, I don't feel that
this is my forum or a free forum. Therefore, I decline to enter into
this discussion with you for the grounds previously stated.
"Mr. Combs: I don't think the record is quite clear.
"Q. Do you decline to answer the question for the reasons hereto-
fore given?
"A. The specific question.
''Mr. Rykoff: I believe there was only that one question.
"Mr. Combs: Yes.
"Q. Have you ever been affiliated with the Civil Rights Congress f
"A. In the conduct of these hearings I feel I cannot enter into
these discussions and I must decline to answer the question for the
grounds previously stated.
"Q. Is it not a fact that you have been a member of the Executive
Board of the Medical Division of the Arts, Sciences and Professions
Council, and that you were a member of that board in 1951 and 1952 ?
"A. It is strange in these times that such innocuous activities, such
as you mention, should be deemed to be subversive by you, but I must
decline to answer for the grounds previously stated.
"Q. Are you acquainted with the witness who proceded you on
the stand, Lee Sutton?
" A. I find I must decline to answer your question, sir, in the context
of these hearings, for the grounds previously stated.
"Q. During the years 1951, 1952, 1953, and 1954, is it not a fact
that you attended approximately 31 meetings of the Medical Division
of the Arts, Sciences and Professions Council in the City of Los An-
geles ?
"A. Sir, permit me to express to you how strange this sounds to
me. I must, of course, decline.
' ' Q. For the reasons heretofore given ?
' ' A. Yes, sir.
"Q. Are you now or have you ever been a member of the Communist
Party or the Communist Political Association?
"A. I must decline to answer that question also, sir.
"Q. For the reasons heretofore given?
"A. Yes.
"Mr. Combs: That is all.
' ' The Witness : Am I excused ?
"Chairman Burns: You are excused.
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 263
STIPULATION CONCERNING DR. JACOB AGINS, M.D.
"Mr. Combs: Mr. Chairman and Members of the Committee: a
subpena was issued for Dr. Jacob Agins, a physician. The committee
has received, or the chairman has received some documents attesting
to the fact that Dr. Agins has a serious heart condition which would
undoubtedly be aggravated by the necessity of his being present on
the stand and being subjected to the strain and stress of testifying
under oath. His counsel is here present and has agreed with me on a
stipulation, a stipulation similar to the ones that have been entered
into heretofore during this hearing for the accommodation of counsel
for other witnesses. It is as follows : Please check me.
"That if Dr. Agins were here under oath and testifying, and were
asked certain questions concerning his membership, affiliation or
attendance at meetings of organizations described as subversive or
Communist-dominated by official federal or state agencies, that he
would decline to answer each and all such questions upon the grounds
that will now be stated in the record by his counsel, who has already
been identified; and that those grounds will be deemed to apply to
each and every question of the category I have described during the
course of his interrogation. Does that cover it?
"Mr. Kykoff : I believe that covers it, Mr. Combs.
' ' Senator Thompson : Will counsel's questions be comparable to those
you have asked of the last three witnesses?
' ' Mr. Combs : Yes, Senator Thompson, they would be.
"Mr. Rykoff: The declination would be based upon the claim that
such questions as have been described are an inquiry into the opinions,
beliefs and associations of the witness, and therefore are protected
questions, such inquiry being against the First Amendment of the
United States Constitution and its corollary provisions, the State Con-
stitution, Article I, Sections 9 and 10, and that the answers to such
questions might be used against him in some possible way; therefore,
he is privileged by the Fifth Amendment to the Constitution of the
United States to refuse to answer, and its corollary addition, Article I,
Section 19, of the State Constitution.
"Mr. Combs: So stipulated. The first question would be concerning
his professional and educational background. This material, I take it,
would not be affected by the stipulation.
"Mr. Rykoff: No.
"Mr. Combs: It consists of the clipped portion of the Los Angeles
County Medical Association Journal with his photograph on it. Of course,
we do not necessarily claim that it is accurate.
"Mr. Rykoff: I understand.
"Mr. Combs: But this is what appeared in the 1954 Medical Journal:
That he received his medical degree from Wayne University in 1925,
264 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
he was licensed to practice in California in 1945, his address is 1574
Crossroads of the World, Los Angeles 28.
"The next question would be whether or not he is now or has ever
been a member of the Communist Party or the Communist Political
Association. According to the stipulation he is deemed to have
declined to answer the question for the reasons heretofore given.
"Mr. Rykoff : That is correct.
' ' Mr. Combs : The next question would be whether or not he taught
a course at the People's Educational Center, which has been described
as a Communist school in Los Angeles, in the spring of 1947. Pursuant
to the stipulation he is deemed to have declined to answer on the
grounds heretofore agreed upon — not agreed upon, but mentioned by
his counsel.
"Mr. Rykoff: Yes, sir.
"Mr. Combs: The next question would be whether or not he taught
at the People's Educational Center during the winter term of 1947.
Pursuant to the stipulation he is deemed to have refused to answer
that question for the reasons given by his counsel.
' ' The last question would be whether or not he was a member of the
Medical Division of the Arts, Sciences and Professions Council. Pur-
suant to the stipulation he is deemed to have refused to have answered
the question on the grounds that his counsel has given for the record.
That is all.
"Mr. Rykoff: All right. May the witness be deemed to be excused.
"Mr. Combs: The witness is deemed excused.
TESTIMONY OF DR. ONER B. BARKER, JR.
"Q. (By Mr. Combs) : Your name is Dr. Oner Barker, Jr.?
"A. Yes, sir.
"Q. You spell your first name O-n-e-r?
"A. Correct.
"Q. Do you have a middle initial?
"A. B.
"Q. What is your residence address, Dr. Barker?
"A. 2254 West 25th Street.
"Q. Are you a physician and surgeon licensed to practice your pro-
fession in the State of California?
"A. Yes, I am.
"Q. Where did you get your medical degree, Doctor?
"A. At Howard University Medical School.
"Q. In what year?
"A. 1945.
"Q. You have practiced your profession in California approximately
how long ?
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 265
"A. Two years.
"Q. Dr. Barker, you appeared before the House Committee on Un-
American Activities some time ago?
"A. Yes, I did.
" Q. About two and a half years ago ?
"A. Yes, I did.
"Q. You appeared there pursuant to subpena?
"A. Yes, I did.
' ' Q. Were you asked whether or not you were then or had ever been
a member of the Communist Party?
"A. Yes, I was.
"Q. Do you recall your answer?
"A. Yes, I do.
"Q. What was it, please?
"A. At that time I declined to answer.
"Q. You declined to answer?
"A. Yes.
1 ' Q. Did you invoke the provisions of the Fifth Amendment ?
"A. Yes, I did.
"Q. Did you do that on advice of counsel?
"A. Yes, I did.
"Q. Did the name of your counsel appear of record in the proceed-
ings of the House committee ?
"A. I believe it did.
"Q. What was the name of your counsel?
"A. Attorney Thomas Newsom.
"Q. Of this city?
"A. Yes.
"Q. Dr. Barker, have you ever been a member of the Communist
Party?
"A. Yes, I was.
"Q. When did you become a member?
"A. In the early part of 1946, I believe.
"Q. Did you go into the party because you were persuaded to do so
by someone, or was it an entirely voluntary action on your part?
"A. I felt that I might be able, I felt that this might have been a
medium through which I might be able to correct some of the things
that I felt were not exactly right.
"Q. Social inequalities, injustices, discrimination and other things
which you sincerely wished to remedy ?
"A. That is right.
"Q. You thought that through the medium of an organization such
as the Communist Party you might be able to achieve that end more
readily ?
266 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
"A. Yes, I did.
"Q. That was the basic motivating element that prompted you to
affiliate with it?
"A. Yes.
"Q. Do you understand, Doctor, what is meant by the term 'recruit'
in ordinary Communist parlance?
"A. Yes, I do.
" Q. Were you recruited ?
' ' A. Yes, I was.
" Q. By whom were you recruited ?
' ' A. Dr. Alex Riskin.
" Q. Is he a physician ?
"A. Yes, he is.
"Q. After you were recruited and joined the party in early 1946,
were you assigned to a specific component part of the Communist or-
ganization in Los Angeles ?
"A. It was the doctors ' unit. The professional unit.
" Q. It was the doctors ' unit of the party ?
"A. Yes.
"Q. About how many members comprised that unit at the time you
were assigned to it ?
"A. I really don 't recall exactly how many members there were.
"Q. Could we put it this way, Dr. Barker. I understand you can only
approximate. About how often did you attend meetings of that particu-
lar unit?
"A. During the time I was in the party I must have attended be-
tween 10 and 15 meetings all told.
; Q. What was the average attendance at those meetings ?
:A. I would imagine about 10.
;Q. About 10?
A. Yes. ,
Q. All of them were doctors?
A. I believe they were all doctors.
Q. Was there in that unit, in addition to yourself, Alex Riskin ?
!A. Yes.
: Q. Hyman Engelberg ?
A. Yes.
Q. He was a physician ?
A. Yes, he was.
Q. Or he is a physician.
A. Yes.
Q. Dr. Harold Koppleman ?
A. Yes.
Q. Dr. Milton Z. Lindon ?
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 267
"A. Yes.
"Q. Dr. Walter Kempler ?
"A. Yes.
"Q. Dr. Louise Light ?
"A. Yes.
"Q. Dr. Milton Lester ?
"A. Yes.
' ' Q. Dr. Max Schoen ?
"A. Yes.
" Q. Dr. Murray Abowitz ?
"A. Yes.
"Q. Dr. Fred Reynolds ?
"A. Yes.
"Q. Dr. Thomas L. Perry?
"A. Yes.
' ' Q. Can you think offhand of any others ?
"A. Offhand, I cannot.
" Q. If you do in the future will you give me the names ?
"A. Yes.
' ' Q. The meetings were held at residences of the members of the unit
at various places ?
"A. Yes.
"Q. How were you notified that a meeting was to be held?
' ' A. Usually by telephone.
"Q. Was there an organizer in charge of that particular unit?
"A. What do you mean by 'organizer'?
"Q. A person who generally directed the organizational activities of
the unit.
"A. Various people usually directed it.
"Q. You paid dues, did you not?
"A. Well, actually, I didn't pay any dues.
"Q. You did not pay any dues at all?
' ' A. No, because at the time I was in no position to pay dues.
1 ' Q. During the period of your membership in the Communist Party,
were you familiar with a publication known as Political Affairs?
"A. Yes.
"Q. That was the publication of the National Committee of the Com-
munist Party of the United States, was it not?
"A. I believe it was, yes.
"Q. That was discussed from time to time during your unit meet-
ings?
"A. Yes, it was.
' ' Q. The purpose of those discussions was to provide correct political
orientation for the membership?
268 UN-AMEEICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFOENIA
"A. Yes, it was.
"Q. The membership did not always agree on the direction that the
orientation usually took, did it?
"A. No.
"Q. There were a great many philosophical and political discussions
during the meetings?
"A. There were.
' ' Q. But once a decision had been made that was supposed to govern,
is that right?
"A. It was supposed to.
"Q. It did not always?
"A. I don 't believe it did, no.
"Q. Dr. Barker, tell us, if you have any ideas of it, what was the
real reason an effort was made to recruit you into this particular unit ?
Were there any other Negroes in the unit ?
"A. No.
"Q. There were no Negroes in it at the time you were recruited?
"A. No.
"Q. Do you have any idea why the effort was made to recruit you
into that unit?
' ' A. I believe so. It was to get a Negro physician into the unit.
"Q. For their own propaganda purposes?
"A. Probably so.
"Q. You did not even pay any dues, did you?
"A. Well, no, I didn't, but I
"Q. You were financially unable to do so?
''A. At that time I could not.
"Q. You went on the staff of the Community Medical Center in 1946
or 1947, did you not?
"A. That is true.
"Q. Who, if anyone, persuaded you to do that?
''A. Dr. Riskin.
"Q. Dr. Alex Eiskin?
"A. Yes.
"Q. He is the same person who recruited you into the Communist
Party to begin with?
"A. Yes.
"Q. In all fairness I would like to have you testify, if you can, of
course, that there were many very sincere people at the Community
Medical Center while you were there who were not members of the
Communist Party.
"A. Yes.
"Q. That is true, isn't it?
"A. That is true.
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 269
"Q. Are you acquainted with Mr. Kenneth Hartford?
"A. Yes, I am.
"Q. Was the administrator of the Community Medical Center during
the time you were attached to its staff? As a matter of fact, you are
still attached to the staff, are you not ?
"A. I have left the staff.
"Q. Oh, you have?
"A. Yes.
"Q. How long ago?
"A. As of two days ago.
"Q. But while you were there you knew Ken Hartford?
"A. Yes.
' ' Q. Was he a medical man ?
"A. No.
"Q. He had no medical training?
"A. No. As far as I know he didn't.
"Q. He was the administrator of the institution?
"A. He was the business administrator.
"Q. Was he in your opinion an efficient administrator?
''A. This is sort of difficult for me to say. I had very little to do
with the business of the running of the center.
"Q. Your contact then was professional?
"A. That is right.
"Q. Medical rather than business?
"A. That is right.
"Q. Are you familiar with a publication known as the Daily People's
World?
"A. Yes. I am.
"'Q. Is that the publication which carries the party line of the Com-
munist Party in this area?
"A. I believe it is.
' ' Q. Did you understand, while you were a member of the Commu-
nist Party, that it was one of the publications the party urged its mem-
bers to take and read?
A. Yes.
'Q. There is no mistake about that, is there?
A. No.
Q. Did you see copies of that publication, from time to time, at
the Community Medical Center?
A. Occasionally I did.
Q. Are you now a member of the Communist Party?
A. No, I am not.
'Q. How long has it been since you left the party?
270 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
"A. Since 1947.
"Q. Would you describe for the committee, please, the reasons for
your disillusionment and disaffiliation ?
"A. I felt that there were so many inconsistencies with what I had
believed originally and what actually happened subsequently, that I no
longer felt it was carrying out what I had hoped or what I had
thought it would.
" Q. It simply did not provide the medium that you had anticipated ?
"A. That is correct.
"Q. You became disillusioned and left?
"A. That is right.
"Q. At that point did you go and tell anybody that you were about
to leave the party, or did you simply become inactive and drift away
from it?
"A. That is right.
' ' Q. You never attended any more meetings ?
"A. No, I never attended any more meetings.
"Q. You never had any more contacts with any party people?
"A. That is right.
"Q. Were you subject to any campaign of vilification or abuse after
you became inactive?
"A. No.
"Q. None, whatever?
"A. No.
"Q. Have you ever been connected with any other clinics besides
the Community Medical Center?
"A. No more than the clinics at the General Hospital.
"Q. The clinics at the General Hospital?
"A. Yes.
"Q. Would you or could you not say that the Community Medical
Center was unique in having a high incidence of Communist Party
members on its staff?
"A. Unique in the sense of other clinics?
"Q. Yes, as compared to other clinics.
"A. Yes, I would think so — if these people are still members of
the Communist Party.
"Q. You don't know of your own knowledge whether they are still
in the party ?
"A. That is right.
"Q. But they were when you were a member?
"A. At that time, yes.
"Q. Dr. Barker, do you have anything else to contribute?
"A. No.
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 271
' ' Mr. Combs : I might say, and I am sure I express the sentiments of
the committee, that we are most grateful to you for your testimony
this morning; for your courage, your forthrightness in giving us this
information, which, of course, is the only way we can get it. For myself,
speaking from some little experience, not in the party, but because
I have had contacts with a good many former members of the party,
I express to you my individual appreciation, because I know it is a
psychological wrench to take this step. We do appreciate it. I thank
you very much. Does the committee have any questions?
"Chairman Burns: No. Thank you very much, Doctor.
TESTIMONY OF DR. LOUISE LIGHT, OSTEOPATHIC
PHYSICIAN AND SURGEON
"Q. (By Mr. Combs) : Your professional name is Dr. Louise Light?
"A. That is right.
"Q. What is your profession?
"A. I am an osteopathic physician and surgeon.
' ' Q. Where did you get your degree ?
"A. In California, at the College of Osteopathic Physicians and Sur-
geons in Los Angeles.
"Q. What year?
"A. 1938.
"Q. Since 1938, have you practiced your profession in this area?
" A. I interned at the county hospital first for about a year, and then
started the practice of medicine at the end of 1939.
"Q. At the Los Angeles General Hospital?
"A. That is right.
' ' Q. Are you married ?
"A. Yes.
"Q. What is your husband's name?
"A. Max Silver.
' ' Q. You were married in or about 1942 ?
"A. Yes, sir.
"Q. Dr. Light, you were subpenaed to appear here, were you not?
"A. Yes, I was.
' ' Mr. Combs : For the record I might add that the preceding witness
was also here under subpena.
"Q. Have you ever testified before this occasion under subpena
issued by any committee on un-American activities?
"A. Yes. I testified in January of 1952 in Washington.
"Q. Before the House Committee on Un-American Activities?
"A. That is right.
' ' Q. That was in Washington ?
272 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
"A. That was in Washington.
"Q. You have never testified before any agency here?
"A. No.
"Q. Since that time have you reflected upon your experiences? You
had a conference with me concerning your testimony, did you not?
"A. Yes, I did.
" Q. At the time you testified in Washington were you asked whether
or not you had ever been a member of the Communist Party ?
"A. Yes, I was asked.
' ' Q. Did you answer in the affirmative ?
"A. I did.
"Q. Dr. Light, when did you affiliate with the Communist Party?
"A. At the end of 1939.
"Q. Where were you when you made that affiliation?
"A. In Los Angeles.
"Q. Did you join the party by applying for membership, or were you
recruited into it ?
' ' A. No. I applied for membership in the party.
' ! Q. How did you happen to make that application ? What were your
motives in general?
"A. Well, it is a sort of a long story. Briefly, I felt there were a lot
of inequalities in the city, in the country and in the world in general.
At that time the Communist Party seemed to be the only one that was
offering some form of activity to help solve some of these problems. For
a, number of years I had been interested in it. When I got through with
the County Hospital interneship, I had some time to think about it and
some time for work as far as social activities were concerned. I then
applied for membership to the Communist Party.
" Q. To whom did you apply ?
"A. I first talked to a lawyer friend of ours whom I knew was a
member of the party, and asked how I should go about gaining admis-
sion to the party. I told him I would be particularly interested in
working with other doctors who might be interested in the Communist
Party. He referred me to someone to help fill the application out.
"Q. Was that someone Dr. Leo Bigelman?
' ' A. Yes, it was.
1 ' Q. Did he help you fill the application out ?
"A. Yes.
"Q. Pursuant to your request, were you thereafter assigned to a
branch of the party?
"A. Yes, I was.
"Q. What branch was that?
"A. I was assigned to the medical branch.
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 273
"Q. Medical branch?
"A. Of the Communist Party.
"Q. The membership of which was comprised of people who were
active in the field of medicine ?
"A. That is right.
"Q. Not necessarily M.D. 's ?
''A. Not necessarily doctors, no. There were optometrists, doctors,
some nurses and dentists.
"Q. Was that branch a subdivision of a higher unit of the party?
"A. Yes, it was.
" Q. Was it a section ?
"A. It was a section of a professional — it was actually a branch of
a professional section.
"Q. In the Communist Party of Los Angeles?
"A. That is right.
"Q. Is it not a fact that the professional section was comprised not
only of medical people and people interested in the practice of medi-
cine, such as yourself, but also of other professional people, such as
lawyers ?
"A. Yes, and teachers.
"Q. Teachers?
"A. I think so.
"Q. Social workers?
"A. I think so.
"Q. Were they organized in branches, the lawyers branch, the
teachers branch, the social workers branch, and so on?
"A. That is right.
"Q. You were simply affiliated with the medical branch?
"A. That is right.
"Q. About how often did your branch meet?
"A. The meetings averaged about once a week.
"Q. Did they meet in a central place regularly, or shift from place
to place?
"A. We shifted from place to place, from one man's home to another
man's home.
"Q. How were you notified that a meeting was to be held?
"A. There were various ways. Sometimes we decided on the evening
of the meeting where we would have the next meeting. At other times
there would be telephone conversations. That would be about it.
"Q. Generally, what did you discuss at the meetings? I don't mean
in detail, but briefly and generally what kind of meetings wore they?
"A. We discussed current events. We would discuss party activities
in general, and maybe party activities in terms of the medical profes-
274 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
sion itself. We would discuss finances and how to raise money enough
to contribute to the Communist Party. We would perhaps have a dis-
cussion on some article, or book, or literature that had to do with Com-
munist Party activities.
"Q. Did you determine what direct action you would take as mem-
bers of the medical profession and members of the medical branch
of the professional section of the party in recruiting other people into
the organization and in raising issues that would be suitable for the
party purposes and in discussing the political orientation that your
particular unit should take?
"A. Yes, we did. We would discuss recruiting the members, various
ways that were suggested to recruit members, by personal contact or
by gatherings, inviting outsiders who might be interested. We would
discuss things that the medical branch could or should be doing. There
were a number of discussions on how much money a doctor should give
to the Communist Party. Generally, it was expected that about 4 per-
cent of a doctor's income should be contributed to the party, but of
course, nobody had access to the books.
"Q. So actually, you never knew how much money was collected?
"A. No.
"Q. Who collected the money?
"A. That would depend on the time of the year or the political
situation. There were times when I collected the money, and other
times we had a dues or financial secretary who collected the money.
"Q. Dr. Light, I want to deviate from the routine that I had planned
in questioning you a little bit, because I have come into possession this
morning of something — I don't know whether you have ever seen it
before or not — it is entitled, 'For Use of Strike Welfare Committees
Only. Insert this supplement in your kit, List of doctors and dentists
cooperating with the Progressive Workers for Free Care for Strikers. '
"It has already been identified and authenticated in the files of the
committee.
"Would you please examine it and tell me whether or not you are
familiar with that document?
"A. I have never seen this document.
"Q. You have never seen this document before?
"A. No. I do know one of the things we were discussing and had
done was to give free medical services to the families of strikers when
it was necessary, but I am not familiar with this document.
"Q. That was one of the obligations of your branch?
"A. I would say it was one of our activities.
"Q. Did you give free medical service to families of strikers?
"A. Yes.
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 275
"Q. On this list is the name of Dr. Max Schoen, doctor of dental
surgery, 314 North Harper Street, Los Angeles. Did you know
Dr. Schoen?
"A. Yes, I knew Dr. Schoen.
' ' Q. Did you know him as a Communist ?
"A. I knew him as a Communist. He was a member of my branch.
I also knew him as a delegate who was sent to my house at one time
with a lawyer to tell me how to run my office. I would like that for
the record. I don't know whether it should be put in the record now
or later on.
"Q. I think we will come to it later on if you don't mind.
"A. AU right.
1 ' Q. This is really sort of breaking the continuity of what I wanted
to ask you, but I would like to cover the names here. Dr. Alex E. Pennes,
6333 Wilshire Boulevard, Los Angeles. "Were you acquainted with
Dr. Alex E. Pennes?
"A. Yes, I was.
"Q. Did you know him to be a member of the Communist Party?
"A. I did.
' ' Q. Was he affiliated with your branch ?
"A. He was.
"Q. You also note the name of Dr. Joseph Hittelman, 132 North Soto
Street, Los Angeles. Did you know Dr. Hittelman ?
"A. Yes.
"Q. Did you know him as a member of the Communist Party?
"A. I did.
' ' Q. And as a member of your medical branch ?
"A. That is right.
"Q. I also notice the name of Dr. Morris Feder, 2202 Brooklyn
Street, Los Angeles. Did you know Dr. Feder ?
"A. I did.
" Q. As a Communist Party member ?
"A. Yes.
1 ' Q. And a member of your branch ?
"A. That is right.
"Q. Getting back to the continuity of the interrogation, Dr. Light,
did you ever hold any official position in your medical branch ?
"A. Yes, I did.
" Q. What was that position ?
"A. I was what was known for a time as the party organizer of that
branch.
' ' Q. Would you explain what the duties of a party organizer are ?
"A. At the time I was party organizer I was getting the meetings
together and collecting the dues and attending the various section
276 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
meetings that occurred, and going to the county section meetings, the
open meetings where the general party membership and the leaders of
the party would get together to discuss problems. That is enough.
" Q. Those were your duties ?
"A. Yes.
' ' Q. You ran the branch, didn 't you ?
"A. At that time things were a little bit tight. Some of the doctors
did not have time to do anything in terms of working with the branch,
and others were a little afraid they might be seen or connected with the
party in terms of outside activity. I had the time and I was terribly
enthusiastic and terribly eager.
' ' Q. Did you spend a lot of time at your work ?
"A. I did.
" Q. You gave it a lot of enthusiasm ?
' ' A. I really did.
' ' Q. Do you think you were successful ?
"A.I don 't know.
"Q. During what period of time were you acting as organizer for
that branch?
"A. I think from about the beginning of 1939 — no, 1940, to about
1942 or 1943. I am not sure of the exact time element there.
"Q. Was there a period during your membership in the party, and
your affiliation with that particular branch and section, that the branch
was criticized from a higher Communist source because it was not
active enough ?
"A. Yes. There was a time when that happened.
' ' Q. Do you remember that incident ?
' ' A. There was one incident I remember, that was sometime, I think,
in 1944. Maybe it was late 1944. I am not sure of the date. We were
told at one of our meetings at the party center —
' ' Q. What do you mean by ' party center ' ?
' ' A. The hierarchy in Los Angeles of the Communist Party.
"Q. The leadership?
"A. Yes, the leadership. That they were disturbed and unhappy
about the lack of activity of the doctors' group. We were to have de-
cided and discussed the problem in order to find something the doctors
could do to make themselves useful to the party. One of the comrades
got up very energetically and said, 'Comrades, I think we have an
issue. We have got an issue. Let's take the issue of the Negro people
in the hospitals. I think we can make something out of that. '
' ' Q. Was that advice followed ?
' ' A. Yes, I think it was after a while.
' ' Q. Did the party create an issue over that problem ?
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 277
"A. Well, they tried to create an issue over the problem — not that
there is no problem. I want to stand on the record that there is definitely
a problem of Negroes in the private hospitals. That was one of the
reasons I got into the party in the first place, because I felt they might
solve that problem, but I did not expect it to be used as a propaganda
method.
"Q. Which it was?
■ ■ A. Yes, and that disgusted me.
"Q. Were you here during the testimony of the witness who pre-
ceded you, Dr. Barker ?
"A. Yes.
"Q. Did his testimony fit in with your experience in connection with
this particular incident?
"A. I think so.
"Q. Do you remember the name of the doctor who said he had
thought of an issue?
"A. Yes, I do.
' ' Q. What was his name ?
"A. Dr. Murray Abowitz.
"Q. Did that occur in a regular closed meeting?
"A. It was in the home meeting of one of the doctors.
"Q. It was a Communist meeting?
"A. Yes.
"Q. While you were a member of the party, Dr. Light, was it not
a part of the policy for the party to criticize the discharge of people
who were party members or sympathetic toward party activities, and
to exert every effort to keep them employed, working, and active?
"A. Do you mean that the party was interested in keeping their own
people at work?
[Q. Yes.
A. Oh, but definitely.
Q. Did you ever have a secretary who was employed by you who
was formerly affiliated with the Communist Party?
;A. Yes, I did.
Q. A woman?
A. Yes.
Q. You knew that she had been a party member ?
A. Sure. We were in the party at the same time.
Q. At the same time?
A. Yes.
Q. At the time you employed her were you in the party?
A. I was on the tail end of being out. I was already losing a lot of
interest, but she had already left.
278 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
"Q. Left the party?
"A. The party.
"Q. "Will you describe for us what happended between you and the
Communist Party by reason of the fact that you had in your employ
a former party member ?
"A. This was a very interesting thing. This girl was in my office
about two weeks as my employee when I was visited by a delegation,
one was Dr. Max Schoen, whom you mentioned before. He came in with
one of the lawyers from the lawyers' branch.
' ' Q. Who was that ?
' ' A. Kaplan, I think his name was.
" Q. A party member ?
"A. Yes. This was a party delegation from the professional section —
to tell me to immediately discharge the girl I had in the office because
she was not a party member, that she had been and had left and that
she was now considered a Fascist and Trotskyite, and I was to sum-
marily throw her out.
"Q. This was regardless of her ability or your desire to have her
work for you, or her own desire to continue in your employ ?
"A. That had nothing to do with it. I was told she was not to be
employed in my office, that she was a dangerous character, and as such,
should be immediately thrown out.
' ' Q. What was your response ?
"A. It would not look good in the record, but the general feeling was,
I told them I was still living in the United States, I still had a right to
run my office my way, and, God damn it, nobody could tell me how to
run it.
"Q. Did the employee continue working?
"A. For three years.
"Q. Were any further attempts made to harass you in that regard?
"A. Yes, there were a number of times, telephone calls and requests
for meetings with various people. I did concede to one meeting at that
time with the organizer of the branch, which was around 1947, I guess.
" Q. Who was the organizer of the branch at that time ?
"A. Tom Perry at that time.
"Q. Dr. Thomas L. Perry?
"A. That is right.
"Q. In 1947 or thereabouts?
"A. Thereabouts. I don't remember the dates because at that time
they did not seem important enough to remember.
"Q. You had been organizer and he came along afterwards?
"A. No. There were others between myself and Dr. Perry.
"Q. I see.
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 279
"A. But at that time Dr. Perry was the president or group organ-
izer, or whatever you call them. I did have a meeting with him. He
wanted me to get reactivated again. I told him I was not interested in
the whole business.
"Q. He tried to get you back into the party activity?
"A. That is right.
"Q. Where did that conference take place?
"A. That took place in an office on Fairfax, at the office of one of
our comrades. There was one other attempt that I think might be inter-
esting for the record. I received a telephone call from a woman named
Rose Chernin, whom I had never known, talked with her, seen her,
heard of her, as a matter of fact. She called me on the telephone through
my exchange and wanted to make an appointment. When I wanted
to know what the problem was, to know how much time to allow in the
office, she said, 'Well, this is not a medical problem. WTe have some
things to talk over. '
"I said, 'What things do you have in mind?' She hemmed and
hawed. It finally dawned on me that it was a party thing that she
wanted to talk over.
"I said, 'It takes two people to discuss a problem and I have no
problems to discuss. Therefore, we couldn't have a meeting.'
' ' She proceeded to threaten me on the telephone, ' Now, look, it would
be much better with you if you did meet with us. '
"So I told her that this was still the United States, that I would
report it to the police department if she did not stop annoying me,
and hung up the receiver.
"Q. Did she stop annoying you?
"A. That was the last bit of annoyance from that particular source.
"Q. Do you recall a turn that was effected in the Communist Party
in the United States by reason of the publication of a letter in France ?
"A. I sure do. That was the Duclos letter in the spring of 1945.
"Q. In the spring of 1945?
"A. Yes.
"Q. Who was Duclos?
"A. Jacques Duclos was a French party member and a very high
party member in France, who had apparently gone to a meeting in
the Soviet Union. When he came back from the Soviet Union to France
he proceeded to write a document excoriating the American Communist
Party on what are called deviation tactics, that they were too friendly
with the capitalist government, that they misunderstood the whole role
of the Communist Party.
"Q. That letter criticized Earl Browder, the then leader?
280 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
"A. It criticized Earl Browder, the then leader, to the extent that
there was a tremendous upheaval in the party, and, following several
meetings and conventions, Earl Browder was kicked out.
"Q. He had been head of the party for 14 years, hadn't he?
' ' A. Yes. A good many of us who had gotten into the party felt that
it was run in an American way to improve American conditions for
American people. When this happened it rather upset quite a few of
us. We got the feeling that all this was so much malarky, would you
say; that they were interested in building a party to help build the
Soviet Union. So he had to take a back seat.
"Q. Is it not a fact, Dr. Light, that immediately after the appear-
ance of the Duclos letter which, as I understand it — please correct me
if I am wrong — it was not in the United States but was in a Commu-
nist publication in France ?
"A. That is right.
"Q. And that the entire Communist Party of the United States im-
mediately reacted and practically turned itself inside out?
"A. It did.
"Q. Which, of course, was a graphic example of the dictatorial ap-
proach ?
"A. It was one of the things that came to mind at that time. That
actually this was a party not run by the American people, but actually
dictated to by the Soviet Union by way of the French Communist Party
at that time.
"Q. Did the Duclos letter and the incidents which followed result
in the disillusionment of great numbers of Communists?
"A. Over a period of several years I would say, yes, a tremendous
number. You don't suddenly become disillusioned with somebody you
are in love with. It takes a little time — one thing after another, and
then you find out you made a mistake.
"Q. And sometimes the period preceding membership in the party
takes quite a little time ?
"A. That is also true.
"Q. It is not a matter of walking down and jumping in and jumping
out again.
"A. That is correct.
"Q. I would assume, and you of course know and I don't, that it
would be much easier to get in than it would be to get out?
"A. Generally speaking, yes; I would say that is correct. It isn't
very easy to get out.
"Q. This is supposition — I was about to remark, you have been in
the party, and you have been out of it for a long time, but I would
assume since you left the party it has been increasingly difficult to
get in.
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 281
"A. Yes. They have been a little bit more careful.
"Q. When did your disillusionment and period of inactivity in the
party commence ? Excuse me, I have one other matter to take up before
that.
"What was the peculiar usefulness of the medical profession to the
Communist Party? Why were they particularly desired as members
to the extent that another branch of the party was composed of medical
personnel ?
"A. There were a number of activities or a number of reasons why
we could be of some value. I mentioned before the income value to the
Communist Party, which was not inconsiderable. And the services that
were provided for striking families, and they were really necessary, that
was provided. We also provided medical services for Communist Party
functionaries when necessary.
"Q. By Communist Party functionaries do you mean full time of-
ficials of the Communist Party?
"A. Yes.
"Q. One who spends all of his time at party work?
"A. Yes. They needed the help. They don't make very much.
"Q. Their salaries are inconsiderable?
"A. Eemarkably low. I don't know how they live on it or how they
did live on it. We had other functions. During the Soviet-Nazi Pact,
and this is a rather important function, we discussed the setting up
of a communications center, an underground communications center,
which would consist of being able to relay messages or informational
material from Communist Party leaders, or people to other Commu-
nist leaders in this way. Someone would come in and make an appoint-
ment with a doctor. The doctor's office is a very sacred thing. We talk
about doctor-patient relationships; it is sacred. Of course, we never
used it at that time, but this was the theoretical set-up.
"Q. That directive came down from above?
"A. That is right. We didn't think of this. This was thought up for
us and it was accepted because we thought it was the necessary thing
to do.
"Q. Particularly at that time?
"A. At that time, sure.
"Q. All right.
"Q. It would be very easy to transmit messages when you couldn't
use the telephone because the wires might be tapped, and you couldn't
write letters because they could be picked up at the post office, and
you couldn't meet people in the street. We had this sort of a plan
set up, but we did not have occasion to use it. Maybe it was used and
we didn't know about it.
282 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
"Q. To put this in its proper political framework, I asked you
why you were directed from above to set up an underground appa-
ratus for communication by the utilization of doctors' offices at that
particular time, you said because it was during the latter part of the
era of the Soviet-Nazi Pact.
"A. It was during the Soviet-Nazi Pact. We had a feeling that at
that time the Communist Party would be driven underground. Here
we were very much upset about Hitler and we found that the Soviet
Union, whom we all extolled to the sky because of anti-Semitism, and
so forth, suddenly made a bedfellow of Hitler. It was a rather sur-
prising thing.
"Q. In the United States you were afraid laws would be passed
and steps taken to drive the party underground ?
"A. Yes.
"Q. You had to prepare channels of activity and communications
against that eventuality?
"A. That is right. The Communist Party is always on the ball
when it comes to self-preservation.
"Q. You knew that because you were in it?
"A. Yes, because we were in it. There were a couple of other things
that I believe might be interesting. We had a large mailing list of
patients. From time to time we would send out mailings of Communist
Party literature, such as the Daily People's World or mailings of the
New York Daily Worker, or leaflets that we could get. We would have
petitions in the office for patients to sign, if they were patients.
Doctors are pretty terrific people and they often signed a petition
without questioning too much the motives behind it. I even went so
far that I had some of the deliverymen coming from the pharma-
ceutical office sign petitions, too. They thought it was all right.
"Q. They certainly were not Communists?
"A. No, they certainly were not Communists.
"Q. They were unaware of the prestige that you exercised as a
Communist Party member and unwittingly lent their names to the
Communist Party cause?
"A. That is right.
"Q. So the doctors were of enormous value to the party for that
reason ?
"A. That is right.
"Q. Did you endeavor to attract a progressive type of patient?
"A. That is a matter of magnetism, let us say. People with a
progressive feeling or a feeling for party activities will automatically
go to the doctors whom they think are sympathetic to their ideological
outlook.
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 283
"Q. Let me pose a hypothetical situation to you, Dr. Light. Take
a situation like we are in the middle of right now, where certain
doctors, some of whom have already been identified as Communist
Party members, are the recipients of subpenas by the committee of
the State Legislature, in this instance the California State Senate.
Although the subpenas have been issued within a week or ten days,
would it be possible, or would it have been possible while you were
a Communist, while you were the organizer of the medical branch of
the professional section, to persuade your progressive contacts and
your Communist contacts to send in a flood of letters, abuses, protests
and things of that kind to the committee?
"A. Of course. We could fill a hall in about two hours time.
"Q. You could fill a hall in a couple of hours time?
"A. Oh, sure. We would have no difficulty in filling a tremendous
hall in two hours.
"Q. Was that part of the party technique?
"A. Yes.
"Q. And the letters also?
"A. Yes.
"Q. Like cards and letters?
"A. Telephone calls and cards, and from time to time if a bit of
legislation would come up in Washington that we would like passed
or not passed, we would have a meeting — not only the medical branch,
because we were a little desultory about that, but the party generally
did.
"Q. The rank and file?
"A. Yes. We were expected to immediately write letters, call meet-
ings, make telephone calls and send telegrams. But that is not only
party activity. I think all pressure groups do it.
"Q. Unquestionably, but I want to know how fast you could mobi-
lize it because of party discipline and organization?
"A. In no time at all.
"Q. Filling a hall in a couple of hours with sympathetic party
people is pretty good.
"A. Yes, we would do quite a bit.
"Q. And you did?
"A. Yes.
"Q. Were the offices of the members of the local branch of the
professional section utilized for the dissemination of pro-party liter-
ature ?
"A. Yes. We had literature in the office. Some of the doctors did
not because they did not want to be too open about it. A good many
of us did. I felt I was in it under my own name and that was the
284 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
belief I had and be darned if I would hide it, so we had literature
around.
"Q. Getting back to the Duelos letter, that was one of the reasons
for your eventual disillusionment?
"A. Yes, that is right, one of the big reasons.
"Q. Did you find that the Communist Party was not the medium
through which you could achieve the things that you intended to
achieve when you joined it, that is, combatting discrimination, unfair
practices and all of the things that you mentioned?
"A. I found that although those were the things they talked about
to some extent, they were simply propaganda or publicity media, that
actually they were not doing it for the benefit of the individuals or
the minorities involved, they were doing it in order to stimulate enough
public activity and interest as far as the Communist Party is concerned.
Of course, the Communist Party means the Soviet Union.
"I have yet to remember anything nice said about the United
States when compared with the Soviet Union. This is a little distressing
when most of us live here and love it here.
"Q. When did the period of your inactivity and disillusionment
commence, as nearly as you can tell us ?
' ' A. There was no specific date. It was a gradual thing. This meeting
at the house which we had disgusted me, but it was one of those things
that you forget about. Then the Duelos letter came along. That was
really a bombshell. The treatment of the girl I had in my office, which
was a couple of years after the Duelos letter — in the interim I had
gone to a few meetings in a very haphazard fashion. I hadn't paid any
dues because I wasn 't interested. I didn 't care whether they liked it or
not. Then the final blow — well, not the final blow, next to the final
blow was the telephone call from Rose Chernin. But the final thing
that jelled it was the outbreak of the current hostilities, a day or two
days after the Communists invaded South Korea I turned on a broad-
cast and Mr. Handleman, a friend of onrs —
"Q. What is his first name?
"A. Tom, I think.
"Q. Howard?
"A. Howard, yes. He made a broadcast from Korea. He is as straight
and honest a man as he can be. He broadcast from Korea. He was sent
down on a news mission. He found the materials that the Soviets sent
into North Korea with the Soviet label and the date, current stuff. He
said he wouldn 't have believed it if he hadn 't seen it. We talked it over
at home for a few days. I decided we had enough of this. I called the
FBI to tell them I had been in it and I would like to, shall I say,
confess and have it out of my system, which is what we did.
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 285
' ' Q. You went voluntarily to the FBI ?
"A. I called them up for an appointment, yes.
"Q. You gave them the benefit of your experiences?
"A. That is right.
"Q. You have had nothing to do with the Communist Party since?
"A. No.
"Q. I think that you testified that Dr. Thomas L. Perry tried to
persuade you to become reactivated and reinstated?
' ' A. That is right.
"Q. He was, of course, unsuccessful?
"A. That is right.
"Q. Was there any particular office building or location in Los
Angeles where there was a concentration of doctors known to you to
be members, or to have been members, of the Communist Party?
"A. There were a couple of places.
"Q. Would you name them?
"A. Yes. One was a medical center, the Community Medical Center,
where there was a large accumulation, a large conglomeration of Com-
munist ideas.
"Q. You knew that to be a fact?
"A. Oh, yes, I know that to be a fact.
"Q. How do you know that?
"A. It just so happens I was present in the office at two or three
meetings when the setup of the Community Medical Center was being
established.
"Q. You were present and helped?
"A. I did not help but I was present. They talked about setting
up a medical center.
"Q. The discussion had occurred about the establishment of the
Community Medical Center was heard by you as a Communist?
"A. Yes.
"Q. In connection with your membership in the Medical Branch
of the Professional Section of the Communist Party of Los Angeles?
"A. That is right.
"Q. So, of course, you have first hand knowledge of that fact?
"A. Yes. Then, of course, the other place is a building on Wilshire
Boulevard in which at that time a number of Party members — let us
say they built it.
"Q. They built it?
"A. Yes.
"Q. Is that building located at 6333 Wilshire Boulevard?
"A. Yes.
"Q. There is a high concentration
286 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
"A. There was. I don't know anything about it now.
"Q. — of doctors there who were known to you as members of the
Communist Party?
"A. Yes.
"Q. Dr. Light, there is another matter I would like to go into. I
asked Dr. Barker, who preceded you on the stand, whether or not he
received any vilification or abuse after he became inactive in the party.
I would like to ask you the same question.
"When you came back from Washington, having testified there
concerning some of these things, was there any effort to discredit you
or harass you in any way?
"A. Oh, sure.
"Q. Would you describe your experiences, please?
"A. Believe me, it was quite an experience. I suddenly discovered
that I was doing what they call illegal operations in the office, and the
reason I went to Washington was that the FBI and the United States
Government threatened me with a jail sentence, that they would either
expose me on the illegal operations or I would go to Washington and
testitfy, so I took the lesser of two evils as far as they were concerned,
or the greater of two evils, I don't know which. There was quite a
campaign about this illegal stuff, because it came from various parts
of the city. There were telephone calls made to the office : a neighbor
or daughter, or relative is pregnant and doesn't want to be pregnant.
Dr. Light does abortions in the office- — to the extent that the California
Osteopathic Association sent an investigator down to tell me that they
heard rumors coming through the office, that they have legal help and
if I wanted to sue anybody for libel, and did I need police protection
for either physical or mental safety. I told them that if I needed it
I would let them know, that I thought this thing would ride itself out,
and it did. Of course, we had problems with people in the office who
would stand at the door and stop patients from coming in, making all
sorts of comments about the horrible woman who was such a danger to
the other people. Of course, all of these things ride their wave.
" Q. Was that in conformity with the process that had been familiar
to you while you were a party member?
"A. It is a constant pattern.
"Q. It is a pattern?
"A. I would think so. It depends on what the individual's work
consists of.
"Q. You have had no difficulty recently along this line?
"A. No, but I probably will for the next couple of weeks, but we
won't worry about it.
' ' Q. You are not worried about it ?
"A. No.
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 287
"Mr. Combs: Dr. Light, I think that is all, with the exception of
asking yon to identify some names that I am about to read to you.
"Senator Thompson: I would like to ask one question of the Doctor,
Mr. Chairman, I don't know if it is quite fair.
"Q. Do you know the witnesses subpenaed here and who testified
because their names have been mentioned?
"A. I know some of them.
"Q. Do you believe that these doctors are now at the present time
thinking of the underprivileged, or are they thinking of the Com-
munist Party and Soviet Russia?
"Chairman Burns: Do you mean the ones in connection with the
Community Medical Center?
1 ' The Witness : Oh, the ones connected with the Community Medi-
cal Center?
' ' Chairman Burns : Some of them may be thinking of the under-
privileged, but it seems to me that if they are real hep — they are
smart, they know this is tied up with the Communist Party — that they
are thinking more of the Communist Party and the Soviet Union than
the few underprivileged in the United States.
' ' Senator Thompson : Doctor, at those meetings which you attended
when you were active in the party, did those meetings consist of the
local groups, or were there people from other areas, you might say,
leaders in the Communist Party who attended your meetings?
"A. Not always. Occasionally we would have a leader from the cen-
tral part of the city, one of the leaders of the Los Angeles party, or
one of the visitors from the New York party would attend the meet-
ings with the doctors. That was not too often, but it happened occa-
sionally.
"Senator Thompson: Thank you very much, Doctor.
' ' The Witness : You are welcome.
"Q. (By Mr. Combs) Dr. Light, I will read you some names and
ask you if you can identify these, or any of them, as having been
members of the Communist Party at the time you were a party member.
You have identified Dr. Murray Abowitz as a member of the Com-
munist Party. Do you recognize the witness who preceded you on the
stand, Dr. Oner Barker?
A. Yes.
Q. Was he a member of the branch with which you were affiliated?
A. Yes.
Q. He was?
A. Yes.
'Q. You knew him in the branch?
A. Yes, I knew him.
'Q. Dr. Leo Bigelman?
288 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
A. Yes.
Q. Dr. Franklin Bissell?
A. Yes.
Q. Dr. Jacob Bruekman?
A. Yes.
Q. Dr. Oscar Elkins?
A. Yes.
Q. Dr. Hyman Engelberg?
A. Yes.
Q. Dr. Morris Feder ?
A. Yes.
Q. Dr. Wilbur Z. Gordon?
A. Yes.
Q. Dr. Joseph. Hittelman?
A. Yes.
Q. I think you mentioned Dr. Walter Karpman before ?
A. No. I could not identify him as being in the party.
Q. You could not identify him as being in the party?
A. I have never seen him at a party meeting.
Q. Dr. Harold Koppleman ?
A. Yes.
Q. Dr. Milton Lester ?
A. Yes.
Q. Dr. Milton Z. London?
A. I have seen him at some meetings, but I could not identify him
sure to be a member of the party.
Q. At what sort of meetings did you see him ?
A. I don't remember, which is a problem.
Q. Dr. Simpson Marcus?
A. Yes.
Q. Is that S-i-m-p-s-o-n, or S-i-m-s-o-n?
A. I think it is S-i-m-p-s-o-n.
Q. Dr. Saul Matlin, Doctor of Osteopathy?
A. Yes.
Q. Was he a member of that branch?
A. He was a member of the branch.
Q. Dr. Alexander Pennes ?
A. Yes.
Q. Dr. Thomas L. Perry ?
A. Yes.
Q. Dr. Frederick Reynolds?
A. Yes.
Q. Dr. Alexander Riskin?
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 289
"A. Yes.
"Q. Whom you have already identified?
"A. Yes.
"Q. Dr. Gordon Rosenblum?
"A. Yes.
"Q. Dr. Max Schoen, a dentist?
"A. Yes.
"Q. S-c-h-o-e-n?
"A. Yes.
"Q. Dr. Max Sosin, a dentist?
"A. Yes.
"Q. Was he a member of that unit?
"A. He was a member of the unit.
"Q. Dr. Sam Sperling?
"A. Yes.
"Q. Rowland Sutton?
"A. Never heard of him.
"Q. You did not know him?
"A. No.
"Q. Robert Peck?
"A. No, I don't know him.
"Q. Did you ever know a man in the Communist Party who was a
pharmacist by the name of Arthur Lishner ?
"A. I knew Arthur Lishner and I have seen him at parties, social
functions, but I cannot identify him as being a member of the party.
"Q. Be sure the record is straight, you cannot identify him as a
member of the Communist Party, but you have been present at Com-
munist social functions at which he was also present?
"A. That is right.
1 ' Q. Where is his office, or place of business, if you know ?
"A. I don't know.
"Q. Doctor of Osteopathy, Jack Nedelman?
"A. Yes.
"Q. Was he a member of your branch?
"A. He was a member of our branch.
"Q. Bertha Reynolds?
"A. Yes.
1 ' Q. What was her profession ?
"A. I think she was the wife — she is the wife of Dr. Fred Reynolds.
"Q. Did you know her as a Communist Party member?
"A. Yes.
"Q. Dr. Sidney Bruckman?
"A. Yes.
290 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
Q. Was he a member of the same branch ?
A. He was a member of the same branch.
Q. Edward Goodlaw?
A. Yes, he was a member of the party.
Q. Is he a physician?
A. No. He is an optometrist.
' Q. Louis Shoenfield ? S-h-o-e-n-f-i-e-l-d ?
'A. I think it is S-c-h-o-e-n-f-i-e-l-d.
Q. What is his profession ?
A. He is a dentist.
Q. He was a member of the same branch ?
"A. That is right.
;Mr. Combs: I think that is all, Dr. Light. I want to express the
gratitude of myself and the committee for your courage and forthright-
ness in giving us the benefit of your experiences.
' ' The Witness : You are very welcome.
"Mr. Combs : May the witness be excused?
' ' Chairman Burns : Yes, the witness may be excused.
TESTIMONY OF MRS. RUTH DRADER
"Q- (By Mr. Combs) : Will you state your name, please?
"A. RuthDrader.
"Q. D-r-a-d-e-r?
' ' A. That is correct.
" Q. What is your address ?
"A. 457-A West California Street, Glendale, California.
' ' Q. Approximately how long have you resided at that address ?
"A. Approximately a year.
' ' Q. Mrs. Drader, you were employed by this committee, were you not ?
"A. That is right.
"Q. Would you fix the approximate date that your employment
commenced ?
"A. Well, I would fix it in the latter part of 1950.
" Q. It extended until about when ?
"A. As of now.
"Q. As of now?
"A. To my knowledge.
"Q. As a part of your employment did you affiliate, or did you be-
come affiliated with an organization known as the Arts, Sciences and
Professions Council, Medical Division ?
' ' A. Yes, sir.
"Q. Will you give us the approximate date of your affiliation with
that organization ?
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 291
"A. The date I actually took membership was on December 2, 1950,
at a membership convention meeting at Stanley Hall, 1057 North Stanley
Avenue.
"Q. 1057 North Stanley Avenue, Los Angeles?
"A. That is correct.
"Q. Did you ever hold any office in the Medical Division of the Arts,
Sciences and Professions Council ?
"A. No office. I was on the Executive Board of the division — not the
ASP, just the Medical Division.
' ' Q. How long were you a member of its Executive Board ?
' ' A. Approximately a year.
1 ' Q. I have before me and I see that you have before you an index of
meetings attended by you ?
"A. That is correct.
"Q. During the date of your employment.
"A. That is correct.
"Q. I wish to identify them now for the record. Will you kindly check
your list as I read mine so that we will be sure and not make any mistakes ?
"A. Fine.
' ' Q. During the period of time that you attended these meetings you
became affiliated with other organizations ?
"A. Absolutely.
"Q. In addition to the Medical Division of the Arts, Sciences and
Professions Council, did you not?
"A. Absolutely.
"Q. You also attended those meetings?
"A. Yes, sir.
"Q. Either at the meetings, or within them, or immediately there-
after, did you place in writing a report of the people present, the
substance of what was said, and a description of the activities that
transpired in each case?
' ' A. Yes, sir.
' ' Q. You sent those reports where ?
"A. To your committee.
"Q. Did you in each instance, or in as many instances where such
things were possible or feasible, collect literature, booklets, pamphlets,
advertisements, broadsides, and other printed materials which you at-
tached to your reports as exhibits?
"A. Yes, sir. And also things that came to me through the mail.
"Q. And also things that came to you through the mail as a result of
your attendance at meetings ?
' ' A. That is right.
292 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
"Q. In your affiliations with organizations that we are about to
describe ?
' ' A. That is correct.
"Q. On October 29, 1950, did you attend a pre-election rally spon-
sored by the Los Angeles Communist Party at the Embassy Auditorium
in this city ?
"A. Correct.
"Q. On November 10th, 1950, did you attend a membership meeting
sponsored by the Arts, Sciences and Professions Council at the Globe
Theater, 7156 Beverly Boulevard?
' ' A. That is correct.
"Q. On the 14th day of November, 1950, did you attend a Southern
California Peace Crusade meeting at Farber's Hall in Los Angeles?
' ' A. Yes, sir.
' ' Q. On December 2, 1950, did you attend a membership convention
of the Arts, Sciences and Professions Council held at Stanley Hail,
1057 North Stanley Avenue in Los Angeles?
' ' A. That is correct. Mr. Combs, there was also not listed in the index,
but in my reports, part of the convention, which was Saturday-Sunday.
"Q. The one I last mentioned ?
"A. Yes, December 2 and 3. The reports cover that.
" Q. Was it held at the same location ?
' ' A. That is correct.
"Q. On tLe 18th day of January, 1951, did you attend a meeting
sponsored by an organization known as the Committee for a Far Eastern
Policy at Channing Hall, 2936 West 8th Street, Los Angeles ?
' ' A. That is correct. That is the Unitarian Church.
' ' Q. The First Unitarian Church ?
' ' A. That is correct.
"Q. Then on the 20th day of January, 1951, did you attend a meet-
ing spon jored by the Arts, Sciences and Professions Council, in Stanley
Hall?
"A. Correct.
' ' Q. On the 22nd day of January, 1951, did you attend the Unitarian
Fellowship for Social Justice meeting in a room known as the Madame
Severance Koom, 2936 West 8th Street, Los Angeles?
' ' A. Yes. That is another division of the First Unitarian Church.
" Q. On the 29th day of January, 1951, did you attend a meeting in
the Madame Severance Room at the same place ?
"A. Yes, sir.
"Q. The speaker on that occasion was Martin Hall?
"A. Yes.
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 293
"Q. On the 1st day of February, 1951, did you attend a meeting
sponsored by the Committee for a Democratic Far Eastern Policy ?
"A. Yes, sir.
' ' Q. That also was held in Channing Hall, 2936 West 8th Street ?
"A. Yes.
1 ' Q. That is the Unitarian Church ?
"A. Yes, it is.
"Q. On the fifth day of February, 1951, did you attend the Unitarian
Fellowship for Social Justice ?
' ' A. Yes, sir.
" Q. The meeting held at the Unitarian Church ?
"A. Yes, sir.
"Q. On the 12th day of April, 1951, did you attend a membership
meeting of the Arts, Sciences and Prof essions Council in Stanley Hall?
"A. That is correct.
"Q. All of these, of course, in the City of Los Angeles?
"A. Yes.
"Q. On the 11th day of May, 1951, did you attend a meeting of the
Medical Division of the Arts, Sciences and Professions Council, at 830
North Melrose Hill?
"A. Yes, sir.
"Q. Is that the residence of Dr. Jack Flasher?
"A. Yes, it is.
"Q. At that time was he a member of the Medical Division of the
Arts, Sciences and Professions Council ?
11 A. Yes, sir.
"Q. He was?
' ! A. Yes, he was.
1 ' Q. "Was Dr. Murray Abowitz present at that meeting ?
"A. He was the chairman of the meeting.
"Q. Was Dr. Max Schoen present at that meeting?
"A. Yes, and he was one of the speakers at the meeting.
"Q. What was the main topic of the meeting?
"A. The purpose was to elect an executive board for the Medical
Division. Then we went into — it was during the time of the agitation of
the so-called police brutality in connection with racial minorities. There
was quite a discussion of that.
"Q. I see. Then on May 15, 1951, did you attend another meeting, a
membership meeting sponsored by the Arts, Sciences and Professions
Council in Stanley Hall?
"A. Yes, sir.
■ ' Q. That is located where ?
"A. That is the First Unitarian Church.
294 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
"Q. Was Dr. P. Price Cobbs on that occasion present?
"A. He was chairman.
"Q. What about Martin Hall?
"A. Martin Hall, Waldo Salt and Dick Powell were speakers.
' ' Q. Dick Powell is not the actor ?
' ' A. No. He is a radio writer and not an actor — an entirely different
person.
"Q. On the eighth day of June, 1951, did you attend a meeting at
the Embassy Auditorium?
"A. Yes.
"Q. Sponsored by the Arts, Sciences and Professions Council?
"A. That is correct. That was a big rally welcoming home Dalton
Trumbo after his release.
"Q. From prison?
"A. Yes.
"Q. Did Herbert Biberman speak on that occasion?
"A. Yes. He was one of the speakers. Dr. P. Price Cobbs was
chairman.
"Q. What was his official position in the Arts, Sciences and Profes-
sions Council, if you know ?
"A. Herbert Biberman?
"Q. No, Dr. P. Price Cobbs.
"A. Dr. P. Price Cobbs, the last I heard, I think at that time he was
still on the National Executive Board.
"Q. Of the National Arts, Sciences and Professions Council f
' ' A. Yes. I believe you have a ballot that I*f urnished the committee
showing his name.
"Q. Yes. We will produce it in evidence later. Was Paul Jarrico
present at that meeting?
"A. He was one of the speakers.
"Q. And of course, Mr. Dalton Trumbo.
"A. Yes.
"Q. On the fifteenth day of June, 1951, did you attend a meeting of
the Science and Education Division Forum ?
"A. Yes.
"Q. Of the Arts, Sciences and Professions Council at the First
Unitarian Church?
"A. That is correct.
"Q. Was Dr. Harold Orr present on that occasion?
"A. Yes, but I did not know him as a doctor. I knew his as Har-
old Orr.
"Q. Were you accompanied to some of these meetings by someone
else?
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 295
"A. Yes.
"Q. That person has given the committee an affidavit?
"A. Yes. One of the people accompanied me.
' ' Q. That was given to us in your presence ?
"A. That is correct.
"Q. On the 22nd day of June, 1951, did you attend a meeting at
7410 Sunset Boulevard, the Arts, Sciences and Professions office, or at
least it was at that time ?
"A. Yes.
"Q. At which time you attended a meeting of the Executive Board
of the Medical Division?
"A. That is correct.
" Q. Who was the chairman on that occasion ?
"A. Dr. Murray Abowitz.
" Q. Was Dr. Richard Lippman there ?
"A. Yes. He was the speaker.
"Q. On the twenty-seventh day of June, 1951, did you attend a
meeting at the same place, 7410 Sunset Boulevard?
''A. Yes.
"Q. That was the office of the Arts, Sciences and Professions
Council?
"A. Yes, it was at that time. That is correct. They had moved from
the Crossroads of the World just a short time previously into this
Sunset Boulevard address, 7410.
"Q. On July 3, 1951, did you attend a meeting at the same place
of the Arts, Sciences and Professions Council?
"A. Yes. That was the Peace Committee.
"Q. Who was the chairman on that occasion?
"A. Dr. Richard Lippman.
"Q. On the fourteenth day of July, 1951, did you attend a meeting
sponsored by the 15th Assembly District, Independent Progressive
Party?
"A. It was not a meeting, Mr. Combs. It was strictly a fund-raising
party. It was through my affiliation with ASP
"Q. By 'ASP' do you mean the Arts, Sciences and Professions
Council?
" A. The Arts, Sciences and Professions Council — it was through my
affiliation there that I attended this fund-raising party for the Inde-
pendent Progressive Party.
"Q. That was held at 7560 Melrose Avenue?
"A. Yes. That is a bar and cocktail lounge that they had taken
over for the evening.
"Q. Then on July 15, 1951, did you attend a meeting at the Humanist
Hall, 2307 South Union Avenue?
296 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
"A. That is correct.
"Q. What kind of a meeting was that?
"A. It was a time when they were trying — they called themselves
the Committee for Amalgamation. It is the only meeting of that or-
ganization I ever attended. I don't know if it is still in existence.
You are perhaps familiar with the fact that in this area at that time,
there were two musicians union locals. One was white and the other
was Negro. The Committee for Amalgamation was to amalgamate the
two organizations. It was agitating to amalgamate the two unions and
have one musicians union.
"Q. How did you happen to attend that meeting?
"A. It was suggested that I attend as a member of the Arts, Sciences
and Professions Council, that I attend this meeting.
"Q. Was it a large meeting?
"A. Yes. There were between six and seven hundred people present.
The big drawing card was Josephine Baker. The singer was in town
at that time. I believe she was doing a personal appearance at the
Orpheum Theater. They got her to agree to make a brief appearance
at their meeting. She rushed from the theater up to the Humanist Hall
and back. It was matinee day. She is quite a well known entertainer.
That drew a lot of people. It was also a fund-raising affair.
"Q. On the seventeenth day of July, 1951, did you attend a meeting
of the Arts, Sciences and Professions Council Peace Committee at 7410
Sunset Boulevard?
"A. That is correct.
"Q. Who was chairman on that occasion?
"A. Dr. Richard Lippman.
"Q. On the twenty-second day of July, 1951, did you attend — shall
we call it ASP henceforth when we mean Arts, Sciences and Profes-
sions Council?
" A. All right.
"Q. Did you attend an ASP reception for John Howard Lawson at
the office of the council?
"A. That is correct.
"Q. On July 31, 1951, did you attend an ASP Peace Committee
meeting at 7410 Sunset Boulevard ?
"A. That is correct.
"Q. Who was the chairman on that occasion?
"A. Dr. Richard Lippman.
"Q. On August 31, 1951, did you attend an ASP reception for John
Howard Lawson in the Embassy Auditorium?
"A. That is correct.
"Q. Did Mr. Lawson speak on that occasion?
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 297
"A. Yes. He spoke of his experiences during the time he was in
prison as a member of what they call the 'Hollywood Ten.'
"Q. For what?
"A. For contempt of Congress, I believe.
"Q. How many attended that meeting?
"A. Between 1,500 and 1,700. It was a full house.
' ' Q. On August 5, 1951, did you attend a meeting of an organization
known as the Civil Rights Congress?
"A. That is correct.
"Q. Did you belong to that organization?
' ' A. I joined at that time.
1 ' Q. This was held at the Embassy Auditorium ?
"A. That is correct.
"Q. Was Mr. John Howard Lawson present on that occasion?
''A. He was the speaker, among others.
"Q. Who was the chairman?
' ' A. Marguerite Robinson.
' ' Q. Will you identify her if you can ?
"A. At that time she was executive director, I believe, of the Civil
Rights Congress, the Los Angeles Chapter.
"Q. About how many people were present on that occasion?
"A. Approximately 1,200.
"Q. Was Mr. Ben. Margolis present?
' ' A. Ben Margolis was present and spoke.
1 ' Q. Was Mr. Don Wheeldin present ?
' ' A. Mr. Don Wheeldin was present and was one of the speakers.
"Q. On the seventh day of August, 1951, were you requested by a
person or persons, to accompany that person, or persons, to the Office
of the United States Attorney in Los Angeles ?
"A. Yes, that is correct.
" ' Q. Will you describe what that was, please ?
"A. May I refer to my report for accuracy?
"Q. Surely. Let's get this in the record. How soon after you went
to the office of the United States Attorney was it that you made your
report? When did you write it?
"A. The same day, within a matter of an hour after I returned
home.
"Q. All right.
"A. On that morning, it was Tuesday morning, during the conduct
of the so-called Smith Act trial.
"Q. That was a prosecution of persons accused of advocating the
overthrow of the government by unlawful means ?
"A. That is correct. During that period of time, it happened that I
was on my vacation from my work. The Arts, Sciences and Professions
298 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
Council group knew I was on vacation because I volunteered to go into
the office and help with little office chores. I was called and asked to
accompany the delegation to the office of the United States Attorney,
Ernest Tolin, at that time. The reason for the delegation was to enter
a plea — it wasn't only a plea, but almost a demand, that he intercede
to reduce the bail for the Communist leaders who were on trial. Shall
I go into it in detail at this time ?
"Q.I will question you about it. Did you go with that delegation ?
"A. Yes, I did.
"Q. Does your report reflect the identity of the individuals with
whom you went ?
' ' A. That is correct. Do you want me to read it ?
" Q. If you will, please.
"A. The original delegation was made up of Sara jo Lord.
"Q. Who was she?
"A. Sarajo Lord was Executive Secretary of the Arts, Sciences and
Professions Hollywood Theater.
1 ' Q. Her first name is spelled as one word ?
"A. Yes.
"Q. S-a-r-a-j-o?
"A. That is correct. Elaine Glenn. Her husband at that time was a
reporter — Charlie Glenn of the Daily People's World. Drucilla Baetcke.
' ' Q. How do you spell her last name ?
"A. B-a-e-t-c-k-e. Mrs. Max Schoen.
"Q. S-c-h-o-e-n?
"A. That is correct. And myself. Then after we got upstairs, before
we went in to see Mr. Tolin, Mrs. Nestor, who is the mother of Dorothy
Healy
" Q. Who was one of the defendants ?
"A. That is correct — she was one of the leaders, she came and asked
if she could join our delegation. Of course, she was very happily re-
ceived. When we were shown into Mr. Tolin 's office, Sarajo Lord read
a prepared statement that had been drawn up ready for presentation.
That was the end of that phase of it. Mr. Tolin, I will say, was very
charming to the delegation.
"Q. Courteous?
"A. Extremely courteous, but he made no commitment, naturally.
After leaving Mr. Tolin 's office we went directly down to the court.
It was in Judge James C. Carter's court where the trial was then in
progress.
"Just as we were starting to enter the courtroom, Charlie Glenn
came over and talked to us, and Sarajo Lord gave him a copy of the
prepared statement, which was subsequently published in the Daily
People's World.
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 299
" Q. This all occurred in your presence ?
"A. Yes.
"Q. And hearing, of course?
' ' A. Yes. I was a member of the delegation.
"Q. On the 9th day of August, 1951, did you attend a meeting of
the ASP at 7410 Sunset Boulevard?
"A. Yes.
"Q. At which the Peace Committee met?
' ' A. That is correct.
' ' Q. Who was the chairman on that occasion ?
' ' A. The chairman was Dr. Richard Lippman.
"Q. Was there a speaker by the name of Maude Russell on that
occasion ?
"A. That is correct.
' ' Q. Who was Maude Russell, if you know ?
"A. It is my understanding Maude Russell
' ' Q. Did you hear her speak ?
"A. Oh, yes, I heard her speak. As far as her identity is concerned,
she was introduced as having been very, very active in the YWCA
work, I believe it was, in China, for many years. Therefore, she was an
authority on Far East and Chinese affairs.
' ' Q. Do you know whether or not she held any other position in any
other organization?
"A. That I don't know. I believe that at that time she had left the
YWCA. I don't believe she was any longer affiliated with it.
"Q. What time did that meeting take place, if you know?
"A. The meeting started at 8.30 p.m.
"Q. It lasted how long?
"A. I don't know the exact time, but I imagine
"Q. Do you have your notes before you?
"A. Yes, I have.
"Q. After the meeting was over did you go to a restaurant with some
other people?
"A. Yes.
"Q. What restaurant was that?
"A. It was the Gotham Restaurant on Hollywood Boulevard in
Hollywood.
"Q. With whom did you go?
"A. There was a little group of us after the meeting, Lee Bachelis.
"Q. Is he now deceased?
"A. I understand that he is. I can't say definitely, but to the best of
my understanding he is now deceased. At that time it was my under-
standing that he was the chairman of the Bail-Bond Fund of the Civil
Rights Congress. I cannot say positively, but it was told to me.
300 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
"Q. We have it by other evidence that is sworn to, that is in the
committee's possession and in the transcript. It is a matter of common
knowledge.
"A. Fine. After the meeting adjourned, he invited some of us, a
small group, to accompany him to the Gotham Restaurant. At that
particular meeting I sat at the table by the door, and as people came
in I took their money and encouraged them to buy literature. During
the little intermission in the meeting, I passed the little basket around
to take up a collection, and so forth. We were included in his group to
go down to the Gotham Restaurant. In the group there was Maude
Russell, Lillian Haas.
' ' Q. She was the principal speaker ?
"A. She was the principal speaker.
"Q. H-a-a-s?
"A. H-a-a-s. Dr. Marvin Sure and his wife, Jane Grodzins Sure.
"Q. How do you spell 'Grodzins?' Before you use your file, Mrs.
Drader, we had better identify it. Of what does that file consist ?
"A. It consists of names of people I knew in various organizations
that were either Communist front or liberal organizations. I have listed
on that
"Q. By 'Communist front' do you mean organizations so listed by
the Department of Justice ?
"A. Some are, such as the L. A. Committee for the Protection of the
Foreign Born, and a few of those, and the Civil Bights Congress. I made
this to help me if I wanted specific information in a hurry. It has the
name of the individual and the dates of meetings, the places of meet-
ings, or I mean the sponsorship of the meetings, not places. Would you
like to see one?
"Q. No, but I would like to get a description in the record. On the
upper edge which protrudes on top of the little metal drawer in which
they are contained are a series of multicolored tabs: white, red, green,
and so on?
"A. Yes, sir.
"Q. What do those indicate to you?
"A. It is another method of quick reference for my personal benefit.
The cards with the red tab are individuals who have been cited in the
House Un-American Activities Reports as Communist Party members.
They have been identified as such.
"Q. By sworn testimony?
"A. By sworn testimony. The ones with white tabs are doctors of
medicine, M.D.'s. The ones with pink tabs are in the medical profes-
sion other than M.D. 's, such as nurses.
"Q. Radiologists, and so on?
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 301
"A. Radiologists are M.D. 's.
"Q. I see.
"A. But nurses, technicians, medical secretaries, dental hygienists,
and those who are other than actual doctors. The yellow tabs are min-
isters, rabbis — of course, I have never run across any priests — religious
leaders.
' ' The brown are people in the teaching profession.
"Q. Educators?
"A. Educators, yes. The green are attorneys.
"Q. Going back to the Gotham Restaurant
"A. Yes.
"Q. have you named all of the people who accompanied you
there ?
"A. No. You asked me for the spelling of Jane Sure's name. It is
G-r-o-d-z-i-n-s.
"Q. Thank you.
"A. She is also an attorney. Ann Wallace was the name she used in
the party. Then there was myself. There was another man, I didn't
know his name, but I had seen him at front meetings at the Embassy
Auditorium, and in particular in charge of the book and literature
tables — maybe not in charge, but at least selling literature from the
progressive book store.
"Q. Did you go into the Gotham Restaurant and have refreshments
or something to eat ?
"A. Yes, we did.
"Q. Would you describe what occurred, please?
"A. Maude Russell and Lee Bachelis were in a chatty mood. They
discussed some of the various experiences they had in the past.
1 ' Q. Did they mention the party ?
"A. Yes, they mentioned the party. Lee Bachelis stated as an example
of the Communist Party discipline the manner of the closing of the New
York office of the Yugoslav Belief Committee. Prior to any open and
public knowledge of the break between Tito and Stalin, he said that the
office had received a cablegram. He did not designate where the cable-
gram came from, but he spoke of party discipline, so I judged it was
from some party headquarters, ordering that this office be closed im-
mediately. He said they wondered about the order, but because of very
strict discipline no one mentioned it. And within 48 hours they had the
office closed. They closed any and all bank accounts, destroyed records.
The office was left as if no one had ever been in there. It was a period
of six months after the closing of the office before the break between
Tito and Stalin was announced in the United States Press.
"Q. On August 17, 1951, did you attend an ASP Medical Division
meeting at 7410 Sunset Boulevard ?
302 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
"A. Yes, I did.
' ' Q. Was the chairman on that occasion Murray Abowitz ?
"A. Correct.
"Q. Among the speakers were Dr. Thomas L. Perry and Dr. Leo
Bigelman ?
"A. That is correct, yes. Did you unintentionally skip the one of
August 12?
"Q. Yes, I am sorry, I did. I omitted one on August 12, 1951. That
was an ASP Medical Division meeting?
"A. Yes.
"Q. At 9620 Monte Mar Drive?
"A. That is correct.
"Q. That was the residence of Dr. Alexander Pennes?
"A. Yes.
"Q. Dr. Murray Abowitz was chairman on that occasion?
"A. Yes.
"Q. Speakers were Dr. Thomas L. Perry?
"A. Yes.
"Q. Dr. Richard Lippman?
"A. Yes, sir.
"Q. And John Howard Lawson?
"A. That is correct.
' ' Q. The next one you have described on the seventeenth of August ?
"A. That is correct.
"Q. Then on the twenty-first of August, did you attend an ASP
Peace Committee meeting?
"A. That is correct.
"Q. At ASP Headquarters, 7410 Sunset Boulevard?
"A. That is correct, yes sir.
"Q. Were you the speaker on that occasion?
"A. Not the speaker, no, sir. I was asked to act as chairman of the
meeting. Dr. Lippman originally intended to be chairman, but he had
an experiment in progress and he could not leave. It was over at the
hospital. It had to do with animals and he has to be there. I was called
by Sarajo Lord and asked if I could come over a little early and open
the hall and act as chairman of the meeting.
" Q. Did you have a key to the premises?
"A. She had me stop by the office on my way home from work and
pick up the key. Elaine Glenn stayed a little late. She was doing
office work. She was there practically every day. Elaine stayed and
gave me the key to the filing cabinet where the money was left. They
left the key under the corner of the blotter for me.
' ' Q. You merely acted as chairman of the meeting ?
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 303
"A. Yes.
"Q. Who was the featured speaker?
"A. Victor Perlo. He had been in the Federal Government in Wash-
ington.
"Q. A federal employee?
"A. A federal employee. At the time he came here and spoke he
was no longer connected with the Federal Government. He was an
economist. He spoke on the subject of, ' Can American Economy Afford
War?' He was quite an honored speaker to them.
"Q. On the twenty-third of August, 1951, did you attend an ASP
meeting at the residence of Ronald Sutton, 406 South Hope Street?
"A. Yes.
"Q. In Los Angeles?
"A. Yes. That was a Medical Division meeting.
"Q. Was Dr. Marvin V. Sure there?
"A. Yes. He was chairman.
"Q. Was Dr. Murray Abowitz there?
"A. Yes. He was speaker.
"Q. On August 30, 1951, did you attend an ASP reception for an
attorney from New York named Abraham Isserman?
"A. Yes.
' ' Q. That was at ASP headquarters ?
"A. That is correct.
"Q. Who was the chairman on that occasion?
"A. John Howard Lawson.
"Q. Was one of the speakers Herta Uerkvitz?
"A. Yes. Abraham Isserman 's trip out here coincided with the time
that the House Un-American Activities Committee was holding their
hearings. Herta Uerkvitz was one of those under subpena at the time.
"Q. Was William Esterman there also?
"A. Yes.
"Q. Did he speak?
"A. Yes, he did. There were two meetings on the same evening. The
one we have referred to at the office was the public meeting. From
there, after it adjourned, there was a continuation of the reception by
invitation at the home of Sidney Goldfarb.
"Q. Let me understand you. The meeting that you first described
at 7410 Sunset Boulevard was open to any member of the ASP ?
"A. It was a public meeting.
"Q. Anyone could go?
"A. That is correct.
"Q. After the meeting was adjourned, or at least concluded, then a
reception or something was given?
"A. A social.
304 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
" Q. It was held at the residence of Mr. Sidney Goldf arb ?
"A. Yes.
' < Q. 1745 North Vista Street ?
"A. Yes.
' ' Q. That was by invitation only ?
"A. Yes.
' ' Q. Was it limited to members of the ASP ?
" A. I think so. However, I cannot say definitely. There were quite a
few people there, 50 or 75. They milled around. It was more or less a social
function.
' ' Q. Who acted as master of ceremonies, or chairman, at the reception ?
"A. John Howard Lawson, more or less took over. He took Abraham
Isserman around and introduced him. Some people got up and did a
little entertaining. They spoke a bit about how they were going to act
at the time of the House committee hearings.
"Q. Was it to plan strategy for them at the hearings?
"A. No.
"Q. What was it?
"A. They were just informing us that they were going to take the
stand, but they would not cooperate with the committee. There was no
strategy planned at all, no.
"Q. On September 7, 1951, did you attend a Medical Division meet-
ing at 109 North Highland Avenue?
"A. Yes.
"Q. At the residence of Dr. Morris Feder?
"A. That is correct.
' ' Q. Was the chairman Dr. Thomas L. Perry ?
"A. That is correct.
"Q. Did the speakers include Dr. Max Schoen?
"A. Yes, Dr. Max Schoen and Dr. Goodlaw.
"Q. What was Dr. Goodlaw 's first name?
"A. Edward. The main speaker was an attorney named William
Murrish. He was represented as a member of the firm from Ben Mar-
golis' office. His purpose in coming to the meeting and being the main
speaker was to explain to us the reasons for the doctors and persons
who had been subpoenaed taking the stand they were taking, and their
legal grounds for doing so.
"Q. On the 22nd of September, 1951, did you attend a Southern
California Peace Crusade meeting?
"A. Yes.
' ' Q. At 607 Southwestern Avenue, the Park Manor ?
"A. That is correct.
"Q. Was one of the speakers on that occasion a person named Sender
Garlin?
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 305
"Q. "Who was the chairman of that meeting?
"A. Peter Hyun.
"Q. Who is he?
"A. Peter Hyun is a Korean, very active on the Los Angeles Com-
mittee for the Protection of the Foreign Born. He is a brother of
David Hyun, a Korean architect, who is under deportation proceedings
at the present time, or is appealing his deportation.
"Q. On October 3, 1951, did you attend an ASP Science and Edu-
cation Division meeting at 1007 Heliotrope Street, the residence of
Richard Hawthorne?
"A. That is correct.
"Q. Was the speaker on that occasion John Howard Lawson?
"A. Yes, that is correct.
"Q. Were there some students present from the Los Angeles City
College?
"A. Yes. It was primarily a student group.
"Q. About how many were present?
1 ' A. Between 45 and 50. As I understand, or as I was given to under-
stand, Richard Hawthorne was a student at L. A. City College also.
"Q. On October 19, 1951, did you attend an ASP Medical Division
Executive Board meeting ?
"A. Yes.
"Q. At 921 South Sierra Bonita Street, the residence of Dr. Milton Z.
London ?
"A. That is correct.
"Q. Was Dr. Jack Flasher one of the speakers?
"A. Yes, he was the main speaker.
"Q. At that meeting was there a discussion concerning the formation
of a new group within ASP to be composed entirely of doctors ?
"A. That is correct.
"Q. On October 30, 1951, did you attend an ASP Medical Division
Executive Board meeting at 7410 Sunset Boulevard ?
' ' A. That is correct.
"Q. Was the chairman on that occasion Dr. Marvin Sure?
"A. Yes, sir.
"Q. Did the speakers include Dr. Max Schoen and Dr. Milton Z.
London ?
1 ' A. That is correct.
"Q. On October 31, 1951, did you attend an ASP Council general
membership meeting in Stanley Hall, 1057 North Stanley Avenue ?
"A. Yes.
"Q. Was the chairman of that meeting Dr. P. Price Cobbs?
"A. That is correct.
306 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
"Q. Did the speakers include Herbert Biberman and Dr. Max Schoen?
"A. Yes.
' ' Q. And Edward Biberman ?
"A. Yes.
"Q. And Martin Hall?
"A. Yes.
' ' Q. Stephen Fritchman ?
"A. Yes, that is correct.
"Q. On November 25, 1951, did you attend an ASP party at 7410
Sunset Boulevard ?
"A. That is correct.
"Q. Was that for the purpose of raising funds?
"A. Yes.
"Q. About 35 to 50 people were present?
"A. Correct.
"Q. On November 30, 1951, did you attend a meeting of the Equal
Rights Congress at 933 South Foster Drive, the residence of Louis
and Kose Rosenberg?
"A. That is correct.
"Q. Was Mr. Howland Chamberlain the speaker on that occasion?
"A. Yes.
"Q. On December 1, 1951, did you attend an ASP Science and
Education Division meeting at 858 North Alexandria Street in Los
Angeles ?
"A. Yes.
"Q. The residence of Pearl Schumann?
"A. That is correct.
"Q. What was the purpose of that meeting?
' ' A. Fund raising.
"Q. A cocktail party, wasn't it?
"A. Correct, yes.
"Q. On December 7, 1951, did you attend a Medical Division ASP
meeting at 830 North Melrose Hill?
"A. Yes. That was the Executive Board of the Medical Division.
"Q. At the residence of Dr. Jack Flasher?
"A. That is correct.
"Q. Was Dr. Marvin Sure present?
"A. Yes, he was.
"Q. Was Dr. Max Schoen present?
"A. Yes.
"Q. Was the Director of the Community Medical Center, Mr. Ken
Hartford, present?
"A. Yes. He was one of the speakers.
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 307
"Q. Was Dr. Murray Abowitz present?
"A. Yes. He spoke also.
"Q. On the 12th day of December, 1951, did you attend a Civil
Rights Congress meeting at the Kadimah Temple, 8056 West Melrose
Avenue, Los Angeles?
"A. That is correct.
"Q. Who was the chairman on that occasion?
' ' A. Marguerite Robinson, the executive secretary of the Civil Rights
Coyigress.
"Q. Did the speakers include Herman Porter and Rabbi Franklin
Cohn?
"A. That is right.
"Q. Were there about 150 people present?
"A. I estimate between 150 and 175.
"Q. On December 17, 1951, did you attend a Science and Educa-
tion Division meeting of ASP at 845 North Heliotrope Avenue ?
"A. Yes, I did.
"Q. Was that a residence?
"A. Yes, it was. It was in an apartment of one of the students
of L. A. City College.
"Q. Did you, on the 11th day of January, 1952, attend a meeting
of the Executive Board of the Medical Division of ASP at 7410
Sunset Boulevard?
"A. Yes, that is correct.
"Q. Was the chairman Dr. Max Schoen?
"A. That is correct.
"Q. Did the speakers on that occasion include Dr. Murray Abowitz?
"A. Right.
"Q. And Ken Hartford, the Director of the Community Medical
Center!
"A. That is correct.
"Q. And Eugenia Wolfson?
"A. That is correct, yes.
"Q. And Sarajo Lord also?
"A. That is correct.
"Q. Did you, on the 20th day of January, 1952, attend a meeting of
the Medical Division of the ASP at 109 North Highland Avenue, which
is the residence of Dr. Morris Feder ?
"A. That is correct.
" Q. On that occasion was the chairman Dr. Max Schoen ?
"A. Yes.
"Q. Did the speakers include Dr. Alexander Pennes?
"A. Yes.
308 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
"Q. Dr. Gordon Rosenblum?
"A. Right.
"Q. Dr. Frederick Reynolds?
"A. Correct.
"Q. Jack Tenner?
"A. Yes.
"Q. And Rabbi Franklin Conn?
"A. Yes.
"Q. What was the main topic of conversation at that particular
meeting, if you know?
"A. May I refer to my complete report, Mr. Combs, please?
"Q. Yes.
"A. That was January 20th ?
"Q. Yes.
"A. That was during the time when the subpenas had been issued on
the Un-American Activities Committee hearings, the House committee.
The purpose of that meeting was to formulate their plan for a program
of protest against the Cedars of Lebanon Hospital.
"Q. That was because of the dismissal of the three staff members?
' ' A. That is right. Dr. Alexander Pennes, Dr. Richard Lippman and
Dr. Murray Abowitz had been dropped from the staff of Cedars hos-
pital. They met at this home of Dr. Morris Feder for the purpose of
formulating plans to try to force a reinstatement of these three doctors.
It was to be a big program of action, propaganda wise, too. Do you want
to go into the Gelhorn letter at this time?
"Q. "Was that discussed in your presence and hearing during the
course of the meeting at any time? Incidentally, was this an evening
meeting ?
"A. Yes, it was at 8.30 p.m.
"Q. About how many people were present?
"A. From 50 to 60.
"Q. At any time in your hearing was there a discussion about
getting some letters from influential people?
"A. Yes.
"Q. To be transmitted to the Cedars of Lebanon Hospital, inter-
ceding on behalf of the three staff members who had been discharged?
"A. That is right. Dr. Schoen discussed it. He made the announce-
ment that Joliot Curie and a professor in Stockholm, Sweden, whose
name I don't know, were intending and had promised to file protests
with the United Nations on the dismissal, and Professor Gelhorn
had promised to register official protest regarding the dismissal of
Doctors Abowitz, Lippman and Pennes.
"Q. Who was Professor Gelhorn, do you know?
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 309
"A. I don't know, sir.
"Q. Can you identify Professor Joliot Curie?
"A. It is my understanding that he was one of the leaders of the
Communist Party in France at that time.
"Q. Do you know whether or not such letters were ever actually
received ?
"A. That I don't know of my own knowledge.
"Q. You only heard discussion?
"A. That is correct.
"Q. Of the intent to get them?
"A. That is correct, yes.
"Q. Did you, on the first day of February, 1952, attend a meeting
of the Executive Board of the Medical Division of the Arts, Sciences
and Professions Council at 535J North Spaulding Street, Los Angeles,
which was the residence of Dr. Max Schoen?
"A. That is correct.
"Q. Who was the chairman of that meeting?
"A. Dr. Schoen.
"Q. Was that an evening meeting also?
"A. Yes, it was.
"Q. Was Mr. Kenneth Hartford, the director of the Community
Medical Center, present on that occasion?
"A. Yes, he was present and he was a speaker at the meeting.
"Q. Was that also in connection with the effort to reinstate the
three discharged staff members at Cedars of Lebanon?
"A. Correct, and also the action to be taken regarding the subpoenas
for the House Un-American Activities Committee hearings.
"Q. On the twelfth of February, 1952, did you attend a meeting called
the Citizens Committee to Preserve American Freedom at the Arlington
Theater, 2517 West Washington Boulevard, Los Angeles?
"A. That is correct.
"Q. Was the chairman of that meeting Dorothy Marshall?
"A. She was co-chairman. There were two, Dorothy Marshall and
Dr. William Atkinson.
"Q. Can you identify Dorothy Marshall?
"A. Yes. She is president of the Women for Legislative Action Com-
mittee. Her husband is attorney Daniel G. Marshall.
"Q. Was one of the speakers Dr. Frederick Reynolds?
"A. Yes.
"Q. And another Sam Houston Allen?
"A. That is correct.
"Q. And another Averill Berman?
"A. Correct.
310 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
Q. About how many people attended that meeting?
A. There were between seven and eight hundred people there.
That was an evening meeting?
A. That is correct, yes.
Q. On the eighteenth day of February, 1952, did you attend a meet-
ing of the Executive Board of the Medical Division of the Arts, Sciences
and Professions Council at 830 North Melrose Hill, which was the resi-
dence of Dr. Jack Flasher ?
"A. That is correct.
"Q. Was Dr. Marvin Sure the chairman of the meeting on that
occasion ?
"A. That is correct.
"Q. Did the speakers include Dr. Milton Z. London and Dr. Max
Schoen ?
"A. That is correct.
"Q. That was also regarding the discharge of the three staff mem-
bers from Cedars of Lebanon Hospital?
"A. Yes. They were talking about the proposed meeting. Joe Joseph,
the national director of the Arts, Sciences and Professions Council, was
to come to Los Angeles from New York. They were to have a big
meeting. We were discussing the program and what-have-you if Joe
Joseph came and if it were held at a later date.
"Q. Did he subsequently come to a meeting?
"A. Oh, yes.
"Q. And which you attended?
"A. That is correct.
"Q. At all of the meetings of the ASP did you attend in your ca-
pacity as a member of the board?
"A. I considered myself such, yes.
"Q. In other words, whenever —
"A. I was notified officially.
"Q. As a board member?
"A. Yes.
"Q. There were meetings of the Executive Board of the Medical
Division of ASP ?
"A. That is correct. I think the committee has the announcement
of my
"Q. Yes, we have it and will introduce documents as exhibits later.
On the twenty-fifth of February, 1952, did you attend a meeting at
Larchmont Hall ?
"A. 118.
"Q. Thank you. At 118 North Larchmont Boulevard in Los Angeles,
held by the Committee for Medical Freedom?
"A. Yes.
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 311
"Q. On that occasion was Dr. Alexander Pemies one of the speakers?
"A. Yes, he was.
"Q. Was Dr. Murray Abowitz another one?
"A. Yes.
"Q. Was Dr. Richard Lippinan another?
"A. Yes.
"Q. That was regarding the Cedars of Lebanon Hospital?
"A. Yes.
"Q. About how many people attended that meeting?
"A. Between five and six hundred.
"Q. On the twenty-seventh clay of February, 1952, did you attend
a meeting of the Medical Division of ASP at 109 North Highland
Avenue at the residence of Dr. Morris Feder?
"A. That is correct, yes.
"Q. Were Dr. Murray Abowitz and Sarajo Lord co-chairmen of that
meeting ?
"A. That is correct, yes, sir.
"Q. Did the speakers include Joe Joseph, the national director of
the National Arts, Sciences and Professions Council f
"A. Yes.
"Q. And Dr. Murray Abowitz?
"A. That is correct, yes.
"Q. Frankly, I don't know whether it was or was not from memory,
but was that the meeting at which there was some discussion about
making mass contacts, that is, contacts with non-Communist masses
through the medium of organizations other than ASP?
"A. That is correct, yes.
"Q. Would you read from your report, well, not necessarily from
your report — you may read from it if you wish to, but describe what
happened in that regard ?
"A. This is as near a quote as I can give you, Mr. Combs. Joe
Joseph was speaking. He said there are many people who sympathize
with the ASP position in specific crises, but are not ready yet to accept
the entire ASP program. For these people we have established sub-
committees, such as the Committee to Preserve American Freedom. To-
day it has undertaken the fight for the reinstatement of the three
doctors at the Cedars. I am not reflecting on the activity of ASP
members, but they must gradually be brought to accept the ASP
over-all program. As the immediate crisis passes, the subcommittee
will evaporate, but ASP will continue to fight for the democratic way
of life.
' ' Q. That statement was made in your presence ?
"A. Yes.
312 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
"Q. You took notes.
"A. Yes.
"Q. During the meeting or immediately after the meeting?
"A. Immediately after.
"Q. On the third day of April, 1952, did you attend an Executive
Board meeting?
"A. March.
"Q. March, I beg your pardon — a meeting of the Medical Division
of ASP at 535J North Spaulding Street, Los Angeles, which was the
residence of Dr. Max Schoen?
"A. Correct.
' ' Q. Was the chairman on that occasion Dr. Marvin Sure ?
"A. Yes.
"Q. The speakers included Dr. P. Price Cobbs?
"A. Yes.
"Q. And the Director of the Community Medical Center, Mr. Ken
Hartford?
"A. Correct.
"Q. Dr. Max Schoen?
"A. That is correct.
"Q. On March 14th, Mrs. Drader, did you attend a meeting of the
Medical Division of the ASP, 7410 Sunset Boulevard ?
"A. Yes.
"Q. Was Dr. Murray Abowitz chairman of that meeting?
"A. That is correct, yes, sir.
"Q. Was Dr. P. Price Cobbs one of the speakers?
' ' A. Yes, sir, that is right.
' ' Q. He was the principal speaker, was he not ?
"A. Yes, he was.
"Q. On the eighteenth of April, 1952, did you attend a meeting of
the Medical Division Forum of ASP at Stanley Hall ?
"A. Correct.
"Q. 1057 North Stanley Avenue, Los Angeles?
"A. That is correct.
1 ' Q. Were the co-chairmen of that meeting Dr. Max Schoen and Dr.
Milton Z. London?
"A. That is correct.
"Q. Did the speakers include Dr. Francis M. Pottenger, Jr.?
1 ' A. That is correct.
"Q. Was it a meeting actually to discuss the smog problem?
"A. Yes.
"Q. Was that what it was?
"A. Yes.
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 313
"Q. About 75 people attended?
"A. That is correct.
"Q. On May 2, 1952, did you attend a meeting of the Executive
Board of the Medical Division of ASP at 7410 Sunset Boulevard?
"A. Yes, sir.
"Q. Was that meeting chairmanned by Dr. Murray Abowitz?
"A. Yes.
"Q. Were the speakers Dr. Max Schoen?
"A. Correct.
"Q. Dr. Murray Korngold?
"A. Correct.
"Q. Saul Matlin?
"A. Yes.
"Q. And Dr. Murray Abowitz, among others?
"A. That is correct.
"Q. About how many people attended that Executive Board meet-
ing?
"A. Ten.
"Q. At your executive board meetings, Mrs. Drader, did you decide
when the next meeting would be held?
"A. No.
"Q. The next meeting of the board?
"A. Not exactly.
"Q. How were you notified?
"A. By postcard as a rule.
"Q. All right.
"A. Either typed or mimeographed.
"Q. On the fourth day of May, 1952, did you attend a function
known as Constitutional Bights Dinner?
"A. That is correct.
"Q. Sponsored by the Arts, Sciences and Professions Council?
" A. Yes.
"Q. Where was that held?
"A. At the Hollywood Athletic Club, I believe they called it the
Starlight Room.
"Q. About how many people were present?
"A. About 275 or 300, as I remember it.
"Q. Was Rose Waldron chairman of that meeting?
"A. Yes.
"Q. Did the speakers include Sarajo Lord?
"A. Yes.
"Q. And Dr. P. Price Cobbs?
"A. Yes.
314 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
"Q. And Gale Sondergaard?
"A. Correct.
"Q. Adrian Scott?
"A. Yes.
"Q. Professor Fowler Harper?
"A. Correct.
"Q. And during the course of the meeting, was Mr. William Schnei-
derman identified?
"A. Yes, he was.
' ' Q. Was he there with his wife ?
"A. Yes.
"Q. Who was Mr. William Schneiderman, if you know?
"A. At that time, as I understood it, he was the leader of the Com-
munist Party in the Los Angeles area. It was during the Smith Act
trials. He was one of them under indictment.
"Q. Was he one of the defendants?
"A. Yes.
"Q. With him was a man named Ben Dobbs?
"A. That is right.
"Q. Who was he, if you know?
"A. He was also one of the defendants in the trial.
"Q. One of the Communist leaders?
"A. One of the Communist leaders.
"Q. Mr. Schneiderman and Mr. Dobbs have been identified many
times before the hearings of the committee for the past 15 years, I am
sure. When they were introduced what happened, if anything?
"A. Dr. P. Price Cobbs introduced them. He asked them to please
stand, which they did. There was not only an ovation, but a standing
ovation for them. There was quite a loud reception.
"Q. Do your notes of that meeting indicate who the people present
were and who were known to you?
"A. I have a list of the ones that I recognized, or who were intro-
duced.
"Q. May I see the report, please?
"A. Yes, sir. (Handing document to Counsel). They are the per-
sons present.
"Q. Did you send us a copy of this report?
"A. Yes, sir, that I did.
"Q. You actually saw each one of these people?
"A. Yes, I did.
"Q. They were either introduced or they were known to you?
"A. That is correct.
"Q. Immediately after the meeting you made these notations?
"A. Yes, sir.
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 315
"Q. In conformity with your regular practice which you had adopted
in the attendance of all of these functions ?
"A. That is correct.
' ' Q. The list is as follows : Dr. P. Price Cobbs, Gale Sondergaard,
Biberman, Herbert Biberman, Edward Biberman, Sonja Dahl Biber-
man, Sarajo Lord, Helen Olair, Rose Waldron, Adrian Scott, Paul
Jarrico, Professor Fowler Harper, Dr. Golstein. Do you know his first
name?
"A. No, I don't. But he was introduced as a professor at one of the
universities. I believe it was Cal-Tech.
1 ' Q. You believe it was Cal-Tech ?
"A. Yes.
' Q. You are not positive ?
A. I am not positive.
"Q. Mr. Jack Tenner, William Schneiderman, Mrs. William Schnei-
derman, Ben Dobbs, A. L. Wirin, Ben Margolis, Norman Leonard,
Charles Katz, Marguerite Robinson, Lee Bachelis. Is that the same Lee
Bachelis that you described earlier in your testimony concerning the
Gotham Restaurant meeting ?
"A. That is correct, yes.
"Q. Dr. Murray Abowitz, Eleanor Bogigian Abowitz. Is that the
wife of Dr. Murray Abowitz ?
"A. Yes.
"Q. Dr. Marvin Sure, Jane Grodzins Sure, Dr. Sidney Prince, Dick
Powell. He is the radio writer and not the actor ?
"A. That is correct.
"Q. Mrs. Sidney Prince, Dr. Don Watson, Dr. William Atkinson,
Dr. Milton Z. London, Dr. Morris Feder, Mrs. Morris Feder, Dr. Saul
Wolfson, Dr. Fred Reynolds, Ted Gilien. Who was Ted Gilien?
"A. He is an artist. He put out a book called The Price.
"Q. Did he ever give you an autographed copy of the book?
"A. I purchased it and he autographed it for me.
"Q. At the meeting?
"A. Not at this particular meeting, it was at a subsequent meeting.
"Q. Will you be able to identify that meeting when we come to it?
"A. We have passed it, sir. It was the Committee for the Amalgama-
tion.
"Q. I remember. It was the amalgamation of the two musicians
unions ?
"A. That is correct.
"Q. That is where you got it?
"A. Yes.
"Q. Did you turn it over to us?
316 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
"A. That I have here, sir. Here is the autographed copy. I sent the
committee another copy, but it was not autographed. I retained the
autographed copy.
"Q. I don't intend to introduce this, but it is entitled 'The Price,
Paintings and Drawings by Ted Gilien,' inscribed to 'Jane Dawson,
for a better world for all of us. July, 1951. Ted Gilien.' Jane Dawson
is the name used by you in connection with your membership in these
organizations ?
"A. That is correct.
"Q. It comprises 55 pages of pictures.
"A. That is correct.
' ' Mr. Combs : I will introduce the copy we have into the record later,
Senator Burns.
"Chairman Burns: All right.
"Q. (By Mr. Combs) : Victor Kilian was present?
"A. Yes, he was.
"Q. Mrs. P.Price Cobbs?
"A. Yes.
"Q. And Mrs. Fowler V. Harper?
"A. That is correct.
"Q. On the sixteenth day of May, 1952, did you attend a meeting of
the Executive Board, Medical Division, ASP, at 7410 Sunset Boulevard
at which Dr. Murray Abowitz was the chairman?
"A. That is correct.
"Q. Did the speakers on that occasion include Mr. Ronald Sutton?
"A. Ronald Sutton, that is right.
"Q. Thank you. On June 2, 1952, did you attend a meeting of the
Executive Board of the Medical Division, ASP, at 7349 Pacific View
Drive, at the residence of Dr. Marvin Sure ?
"A. That is correct.
" Q. In what community is that address located ?
"A. It is in the hills just between Glendale and Los Angeles, Out-
post Drive, but his business is in Glendale.
"Q. Was Dr. Murray Abowitz chairman on that occasion?
"A. Yes, he was.
"Q. Was the principal speaker the director of the Community Medi-
cal Center, Mr. Ken Hartford ?
"A. Right.
"Q. On the fourteenth day of June, 1952, did you attend the Equal
Bights Conference at the Hotel Alexandria, sponsored by the Arts,
Sciences and Professions Council, at which the chairman was Dr. P.
Price Cobbs?
"A. That is correct.
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 317
Q. How many people were present at that function, approximately ?
A. It fluctuated between 280 and 300.
Q. Was it an evening meeting ?
A. It was all day.
Q. Oh, it was?
A. On a Saturday. Then there was a recess for dinner and they came
back for a windup rally at the end.
Q. Did the speakers include Sarajo Lord?
A. Correct.
Q. Dr. Murray Abowitz?
A. Yes.
Q. SaulMatlin?
A. Yes.
Q. Dr. Murray Korngold ?
A. Correct.
Q. Ronald Sutton?
A. Correct.
Q. Gene Stone?
A. That is correct.
Q. Dr. Max Schoen ? (
A. Correct.
Q. On the twenty-fourth of June, 1952, did you attend a meeting of
the Medical Division, ASP, Committee Against Discrimination1!
A. That is correct.
Q. That meeting was held at the Community Medical Center?
A. Yes.
Q. 1236 South Lake Street, Los Angeles ?
A. That is correct.
Q. Was the chairman Dr. Max Schoen?
A. That is correct, yes, sir.
Q. On the seventh day of July, 1952, did you attend a meeting of
the Executive Board, Medical Division, ASP, 830 North Melrose Hill,
residence of Dr. Jack Flasher ?
A. Yes.
Q. Was the chairman of that meeting Dr. Murray Abowitz ?
A. Correct.
Q. Was the speaker Dr. Max Schoen ?
A. That is correct.
Q. On the eighth day of July, 1952, the following day, did you at-
tend a meeting of the Medical Division Committee Against Discrimina-
tion, ASP, at the Community Medical Center, 1236 South Lake Street,
Los Angeles?
"A. That is correct, yes.
"Q. Was the chairman of that meeting Dr. Max Schoen?
318 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
"A. That is correct, yes.
"Q. On the twenty-second day of July, 1952, did you attend a meet-
ing of the Medical Division, Committee Against Discrimination, ASP,
at the Community Medical Center, 1236 South Lake Street, Los An-
geles ?
' ' A. That is correct, yes.
"Q. Was the chairman Dr. Max Schoen?
' ' A. That is correct.
"Q. On the sixteenth day of August, 1952, did you attend a meeting
of the Federation for the Eepeal of the Levering Actl
" A. Yes.
' ' Q. And it was held at 695 South Catalina, YWCA Hall, Los Angeles ?
' ' A. That is correct.
"Q. Was the chairman of that meeting Herb Bisno?
"A. Yes.
' ' Q. Present at the meeting as speakers were Dr. Eason Monroe ?
"A. Correct.
"Q. Esther Nasatir?
"A. Correct.
"Q. HanahBlum?
"A. Correct.
" Q. And Milnor Alexander ?
' ' A. That is correct.
"Q. On the nineteenth day of August, 1952, did you attend a meeting
of the Medical Division, ASP, Committee Against Discrimination, at the
Community Medical Center, 1236 South Lake Street, Los Angeles?
"A. Correct.
"Q. Was the chairman of that meeting Dr. Max Schoen?
' ' A. That is correct.
"Q. On the twenty-second day of August, 1952, did you attend a
meeting of the Medical Division, ASP, 7410 Sunset Boulevard, at which
the chairman of the meeting was Dr. Murray Abowitz?
"A. Yes.
"Q. Did the speakers on that occasion include Dr. Richard Lippman
and Dr. Max Schoen?
"A. Correct.
"Q. On the ninth day of September, 1952, did you attend a meeting
of the Medical Division, ASP, Committee Against Discrimination at
the Community Medical Center, 1236 South Lake Street, Los Angeles,
at which time the chairman was Dr. Max Schoen ?
"A. Correct.
"Q. On the twenty-first day of September, 1952, did you attend a
meeting of the Arts, Sciences and Professions Council, Architecture
and Engineering Division1!
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 319
"A. What is the date again? Did you intentionally skip something?
"Q. I did it inadvertently. I thank you very much. The next one
should have been September 21, 1952?
"A. That is correct.
"Q. Was that a meeting of the Medical Division, ASP?
"A. Yes.
" Q. At 7410 Sunset Boulevard ?
"A. Correct.
"Q. At which the chairman of the meeting was Dr. Max Schoen?
"A. Correct.
"Q. Now, then, on October 17, 1952, is that the next one you have?
' ' A. Yes, that is the next one I have.
"Q. Did you attend a meeting of the ASP Architecture and Engi-
neering Division at the Park Manor?
"A. Yes.
"Q. 607 South Western Avenue, Los Angeles?
"A. Yes, that is correct.
" Q. Was the chairman Richard Jampol ?
"A. That is correct.
"Q. Did the speakers include Dr. P. Price Cobbs?
"A. Yes.
1 ' Q. And Robert Alexander ?
"A. Correct.
" Q. On the thirty-first day of October, 1952, did you attend a meet-
ing of the Medical Division of the ASP at 7410 Sunset Boulevard ?
' ' A. That is correct.
' ' Q. Was the chairman Dr. Max Schoen ?
"A. Yes.
' ' Q. Did the speakers include Dr. Marvin Sure ?
"A. Yes.
"Q. SaulMatlin?
"A. Yes.
"Q. On the eleventh day of November, 1952, did you attend a meet-
ing of the Medical Division, ASP, Committee Against Discrimination
at the Community Medical Center, 1236 South Lake Street, Los
Angeles ?
"A. That is correct.
"Q. Was the chairman Dr. Max Schoen?
"A. Yes.
"Q. On the fourteenth day of November, 1952, did you attend a
meeting of the Sciences and Education Division of the ASP at 7819
Beverly Boulevard, Los Angeles ?
"A. That is correct.
320 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
"Q. Was the chairman Dr. P. Price Cobbs?
1 ' A. Yes, that is correct.
' ' Q. Did the speakers include Dr. Frank W. Weymouth ?
"A. Yes.
"Q. And Dirk J. Struik?
1 ' A. That is correct.
1 ' Q. And Dr. Murray Abowitz ?
"A. Correct.
"Q. Do you know anything about the identity of Frank W.
Weymouth, who is he ?
"A. I don't know too much about Dr. Frank Weymouth. He was
chairman of the committee, as I recall, the students — no, that is Heist.
Frank Weymouth, though, has been
"Q. Could you refer to your file index?
"A. Yes, perhaps I could. I haven't seen him at too many meetings.
He was active to a slight extent in the Arts, Sciences and Professions
Council. He was one of the sponsors, I believe, of this book, The Price.
"Q. Who was Dirk J. Struik, if you know?
"A. He was professor from the Massachusetts Institute of Tech-
nology.
"Q. Who introduced him at the meeting?
1 ' A. He was introduced by Frank Weymouth.
" Q. About how many people were present on that occasion?
"A. Between 250 and 300.
" Q. Was it an evening meeting ?
"A. Yes, it was.
"Q. On the ninth day of December, 1952, did you attend a meeting
of the Medical Division, ASP, Committee Against Discrimination, at
the Community Medical Center, 1236 South Lake Street, Los Angeles?
"A. That is correct, yes.
"Q. Was the chairman of that meeting Dr. Max Schoen?
"A. That is correct, yes.
"Q. On the twelfth day of December, 1952, did you attend a meet-
ing of the Negro Labor Council?
"A. Correct.
"Q. At 4118 South Central Avenue, Los Angeles?
"A. Correct.
"Q. Was the chairman of the meeting Cleophus Brown?
"A. Correct.
' ' Q. Do you know who he is ? Do you know anything about him ?
"A. He was chairman of the Negro Labor Council.
"Q. He has been a witness before our committee on other occasions.
"A. I didn't know that.
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 321
"Q. Did the speakers include Tom Creed?
"A. Yes.
"Q. And Frankie Simms?
"A. Yes.
"Q. And others that you have named in your report?
"A. That is correct.
" Q. On the sixteenth day of December, 1952, did you attend a meet-
ing of the Arts, Sciences and Professions Council, Architecture and
Engineering Division Forum?
"A. Yes.
"Q. I have no indication as to where that was held.
"A. Oh, dear.
"Q. Can you tell me by referring to your report?
"A. It was held at 2936 West 8th Street, Channing Hall, which is
the First Unitarian Church.
"Q. Were the chairmen on that occasion Francis Dean and Bob
Hogge ?
"A. That is right.
"Q. Did the speakers include Frank Wilkinson?
"A. Yes.
"Q. And Alvin Wilder?
"A. Correct.
" Q. Was it an evening meeting ?
"A. Yes, 8:30 p.m.
"Q. Was the general topic of discussion 'Alleged Racial Discrimina-
tion in Housing ? '
' ' A. Yes, and slum clearance.
"Q. And segregation ?
"A. Yes.
' ' Q. About how many people attended that meeting ?
"A. Between 60 and 70.
"Q. Did you, on the ninth day of January, 1953, attend a meeting
of the Negro Labor Council, at 4118 South Central Avenue, Los
Angeles ?
A. That is correct, yes.
Q. Was the chairman on that occasion Robert Shannon Robinson?
A. Correct. He is deceased.
Q. He is now deceased ?
; A. That I understand, yes.
Q. What was the purpose of that meeting, if you know?
!A. Well, the Los Angeles Committee for the Protection of Foreign-
Born was preparing and planning a conference to be held on the
seventh of February, 1953. They had requested that all of the various
progressive organizations send a delegation. The purpose of the meet-
322 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
iug was the council business meeting, and then to select members of
the Negro Labor Council to attend this conference to defend the rights
of the foreign born as representatives of the Negro Labor Council.
"Q. Did you attend that meeting because of your membership in
the ASP?
"A. Well, I had become involved in the affairs of the Negro Labor
Council through my activities in the ASP.
"Q. You actually joined it, didn't you?
"A. Yes, I actually joined it at the insistence of Dr. Schoen.
"Q. Did he direct you to become a member of the Negro Labor
Council f
"A. Yes. It was at one of the meetings of the Community Medical
Center, the ASP Medical Division formed a subcommittee, the Com-
mittee Against Discrimination, as an outcome of the Equal Eights Con-
ference at the Hotel Alexandria. At one of the meetings of the Com-
mittee Against Discrimination, held at the Community Medical Center,
Robert Shannon Robinson came as guest speaker. He was also a mem-
ber of the Executive Board of the ASP, in addition to being chairman
of the Negro Labor Council. They had their national convention. He
came to report on the activities of integrating negro personnel into
formerly all-white organizations. He suggested it would give a big
boost to the Negro Labor Council if some of the members of the Arts,
Sciences and Professions Committee Against Discrimination would
come, either as members or observers, and report back to the ASP
committee and try to integrate their activities to help the negro workers.
Dr. Max Schoen asked me if I would join and attend.
"Q. Did you agree to do that?
"A. I agreed to do that, yes.
"Q. How many meetings did you attend as a member? Do you
recall ?
"A. The meetings of the Labor Council f
"Q. Yes.
"A. About six, I believe.
"Q. "Were they all held at the same place?
"A. Yes.
"Q. Why didn't you continue with your membership?
' ' A. Well, having to go down there rather late at night, it wasn 't so
much in the meetings, but leaving in order to get back to my home I
had to drive through some rather unsavory neighborhoods. I just felt
uncomfortable being out alone, you know, in the industrial area in
through there, that I had to travel through.
' ' Q. Did you report that feeling to Dr. Schoen ?
"A. No, I didn't.
"Q. You just quit going?
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 323
"A. I just quit going.
"Q. Was there remonstrance on the part of anybody so far as you
were concerned because you elected to quit?
"A. No.
"Q. Have you submitted your actual membership card in the Negro
Lao or Council?
' ' A. No. I have it in my purse, Mr. Combs, but I will be glad to give
it to you.
"Q. Will you do so, please?
"A. I will have no more need for it.
"Q. I presume not.
"A. This is the Negro Labor Council card. Here is the receipt.
"Q. Mrs. Drader, if you don't mind, if you want to keep this as a
memento of your experience, I can read it into the record, because it is
very short.
"A. Fine.
" Q. It reads as follows : ' National Negro Labor Council, 410 Warren
Street, Room 214, Temple 2-1732, Detroit, Michigan. This is to certify
that the undersigned has agreed to the program and principles of the
N. N. L. C — that would be the National Negro Labor Council?
' ' The Witness : That is right.
"Mr. Combs: ' and is in good standing for the current year.
Name : Jane Dawson. ' You have already testified about your use of that
name?
' ' The Witness : That is right.
' ' Mr. Combs : ' Date of issue : December 9, 1952. ' This card is for the
year 1953. Facsimile signature of R. Robinson, Legal Counsel, Secre-
tary 120, and the facsimile signature of the National Executive Sec-
retary, it looks like Coleman A. Young.
' ' The Witness : Yes.
"Mr. Combs : The seal of the Negro Labor Council is stamped in gold
on the face of the card.
"Q. On the thirteenth of January, 1953, Mrs. Drader, did you attend
a membership meeting of the ASP at Stanley Hall, 1057 North Stanley
Avenue, Los Angeles ?
' ' A. That is right.
"Q. Was the chairman of that meeting Dr. P. Price Cobbs?
"A. Correct.
"Q. Was one of the speakers Martin Hall, who appeared as a witness
here yesterday or the day before ?
"A. That is right.
"Q. And Harry Carlisle?
"A. Yes.
324 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
1 ' Q. Who was he, if you know ?
"A. I believe he is a writer by occupation. He is currently on a
deportation orders, or has been deported. I don't know the current
status of the case. He was under deportation proceedings for his activi-
ties as a Communist.
"Q. Was Dr. Max Schoen one of the speakers?
"A. Yes.
' ' Q. It was an evening meeting ?
"A. That is correct.
"Q. On the sixteenth of January, 1953, did you attend a meeting of
the Medical Division of the ASP at 1406 South St. Andrews Place?
"A. Yes, that is correct.
"Q. Was that a residence?
"A. Yes.
"Q. Of James R. Cheatham?
"A. Correct.
" Q. Was the chairman of the meeting Dr. Max Schoen ?
"A. Correct.
"Q. Was one of the speakers Dr. Thomas L. Perry?
"A. Correct, yes.
"Q. Did you attend a meeting of the Negro Labor Council, its open
house party?
"A. Yes.
"Q. On the eighteenth of January, 1953, at 4118 South Central
Avenue, Los Angeles ?
"A. That is correct. That was a Sunday afternoon.
"Q. Attended by a good number of people, between 150 and 200?
"A. It was a fluctuating crowd. They fluctuated in and out. It was
an open house party.
"Q. All afternoon ?
"A. Yes.
11 Q. On the twentieth of January, 1953, did you attend a meeting of
the Medical Division Committee Against Discrimination, ASP, at 2148
South Hobart Boulevard, Apt. 2-B ?
"A. Correct.
"Q. Was the chairman of that meeting Dr. Max Schoen?
"A. That is correct, yes.
"Q. Was the topic of discussion, or chief topic of discussion, 'Al-
leged Discrimination at Permanente and Hollywood Hospitals?'
"A. Yes, and a case of discrimination at the L. A. County Hospital.
Shall we go into this, the apartment ?
1 1 Q. The apartment was that of Rosalind Smith ?
"A. Yes. She is a registered nurse.
UN-AHEKICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFOENIA 325
"Q. On the seventh of February, 1953, did you attend a meeting of
the Los Angeles Committee for the Protection of Foreign Born?
"A. That is correct.
"Q. At 607 South Western Avenue?
"A. Yes.
"Q. At Park Manor?
"A. Correct.
"Q. Was one of the speakers on that occasion Esther Shandler, an
attorney ?
"A. That is correct, yes.
' ' Q. On February 10, 1953, did you attend a meeting of the Medical
Division, Committee Against Discrimination, ASP, at the CIO Build-
ing, 303-5851 Avalon Boulevard, Los Angeles?
"A. Yes, that is correct. However, there was a little difference there
in that it was the Medical Committee Against Discrimination that or-
ganized the meeting. The reason for holding it at the CIO Building,
they were integrating leaders of some of the labor organizations into
their activities, anti-discrimination activities.
"Q. That was the reason for holding it at that particular place?
"A. Yes.
"Q. Which apparently, from the other meetings, was a little bit out
of order ?
"A. Yes.
"Q. The chairman of that meeting was Dr. Max Schoen?
"A. That is correct.
"Q. The subject principally discussed was discrimination at Per-
manente ?
"A. Yes; the policy that the trade unions should take in regard to
that.
"Q. On the twenty-sixth of February, 1953, did you attend a meet-
ing of the Medical Division of ASP and the Community Medical Center,
a joint meeting?
"A. That is correct.
"Q. That was held at the Community Medical Center, a joint
meeting?
"A. That is correct.
"Q. That was held at the Community Medical Center?
"A. Yes.
"Q. At 1236 South Lake Street, Los Angeles?
1 ' A. That is correct.
"Q. On the seventeenth of March, 1953, did you attend a meeting
of the Arts, Sciences and Professions Council Forum at Stanley Hall,
1057 North Stanley Avenue, Los Angeles ?
326 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
"A. Correct.
"Q. Was the chairman of that meeting Martin Hall?
"A. Correct.
"Q. Did the speakers include Harold Orr?
"A. Yes.
"Q. On the twelfth day of April, 1953, did you attend a meeting at
the Madame Severance Room at the First Unitarian Church, 2936 "West
8th Street, Los Angeles?
"A. Yes.
"Q. Unitarian Fellowship for Social Justice?
"A. Correct.
"Q. Was the chairman of that meeting Dr. Harold Koppleman?
"A. Correct.
"Q. On the first day of May, 1953, did you attend a meeting at the
First Unitarian Church ?
"A. Yes.
"Q. Was the speaker Maude Russell?
"A. Yes.
' ' Q. Was that a meeting of the Unitarian Public Forum ?
"A. Yes.
"Q. How many people attended that meeting, approximately?
"A. Between 600 and 700. Stephen Fritchman was the chairman.
"Q. Was it an evening meeting?
"A. Yes.
"Q. On the twentieth of May, 1953, did you attend a general mem-
bership meeting of the ASP at 7410 Sunset Boulevard, Los Angeles,
at which time the chairman was Gene Stone and the speakers included
Dr. P. Price Cobbs, John Howard Lawson, David Hyun and Pauline
Shindler ?
"A. Correct.
"Q. On the seventh day of June, 1953, did you attend a meeting at
the First Unitarian Church at which the chairman was Dr. Harold
Koppleman and the principal speaker was Anna Louise Strong ?
"A. That is correct.
' ' Q. About how many people attended that meeting ?
"A. Between 350 and 400.
"Q. On the twenty -first day of June, 1953, did you attend a Paul
Robeson recital at the First Unitarian Church?
"A. That is correct.
"Q. And how many people attended that affair?
"A. There were twelve to thirteen hundred. The main recital was
in the auditorium of the church, the big auditorium. There was such a
crowd that they had speakers connected into the Madame Severance
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 327
Room and Channing Hall. There were still people in the little patio who
could not get into those rooms.
"Q. On the twenty-fifth of June, 1953, did }^ou attend a meeting
of the Los Angeles Committee for the Protection of Foreign Born at the
Hotel Clark, Los Angeles?
"Q. Did the speakers include Rose Chernin, mentioned by one of the
witnesses this morning?
"A. That is correct.
"Q. Mary Hyun?
"A. Correct.
"Q. Pauline Epstein?
"A. That is correct.
"Q. Stanley Nowak?
"A. Yes.
"Q. On August 16, 1953, did you attend a meeting at the First
Unitarian Church?
"A. I was at the Unitarian Church. It was not exactly a meeting.
It was Mr. Fritchman's church service, but the title of the sermon
was, 'Expediency or Principle,' which was an attack on the House Un-
American Activities Committee.
"Q. How many people attended that meeting?
"A. About eight or nine hundred.
"Q. On August 23, 1953, did you attend a meeting at the First Uni-
tarian Church?
"A. Yes. That was the same meeting. It was their morning church
service.
"Q. Was the speaker Dr. Harry Steinmetz?
"A. Yes.
"Q. Is he the Dr. Harry Steinmetz who was expelled from San
Diego State College?
"A. He was from San Diego State College at that time.
"Q. You don't know about it?
"A. I don't know whether he was expelled or not.
"Q. On September 12, 1953, did you attend a meeting of the Civil
Rights Congress in Los Angeles?
"A. Yes.
"Q. At 1251 South St. Andrews Place?
"A. Correct.
"Q. Was the chairman Reuben Borough?
"A. That is correct.
"Q. Did the speakers include Aubrey Grossman .'
"A. Yes.
"Q. Do you know who he is?
328 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
"A. He was introduced as a San Francisco attorney.
"Q. You don't know anything more about him?
"A. No, I don't.
"Q. Marguerite Robinson?
"A. Yes. She was one of the speakers.
"Q. You have already described her, have you not?
"A. Yes.
"Q. About how many people attended that meeting?
"A. Seventy-five or so.
"Q. What was the purpose of it?
"A. It was a conference to save Wells.
"Q. To obtain a pardon for Wesley Robert Wells, who was then
under death sentence at San Quentin Penitentiary?
"A. Correct.
' ' Mr. Combs : Aubrey Grossman, Mr. Chairman, has appeared before
the committee. He has proclaimed himself to be a member of the Com-
munist Party of long standing.
"Q. On the eighteenth day of September, 1953, did you, at Chan-
ning Hall, which is at the First Unitarian Church, attend a meeting
of the Southern California Peace Crusaded
"A. That is correct.
"Q. Were the speakers Maude Russell and Peter Hyun?
"A. That is correct.
"Q. On the twenty -ninth day of September, 1953, did you attend
a meeting of the Los Angeles Committee for the Protection of Foreign
Born?
"A. That is correct.
" Q. At 607 South Western Avenue, Park Manor ?
"A. Correct.
"Q. Was the chairman Rose Chernin?
"A. Correct.
"Q. Was it regarding arranging for David Hyun's release on bail?
"A. That is correct.
"Q. Because he was under deportation proceedings?
"A. That is correct.
"Q. On the second day of October, 1953, did you attend a mass meet-
ing of the Civil Rights Congress?
"A. Yes.
"Q. At the Embassy Auditorium?
"A. Yes.
"Q. For the announced purpose of saving Robert Wesley Wells?
"A. That is correct. That is where they brought William L. Patter-
son from New York.
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 329
"Q. Who is William L. Patterson?
"A. He was introduced as National Director of the Civil Rights
Congress.
" Q. He came out from New York, you say ?
"A. That is correct.
"Q. Did he speak?
"A. Correct.
"Q. Do you know who introduced him?
"A. I believe James Daugherty was the man who introduced him.
I could refer to my detailed reports.
"Q. How many people attended?
"A. Between seven and eight hundred.
' ' Q. Was it an evening meeting ?
"A. Yes.
' ' Q. On October 5, 1953, did you attend a meeting of the Los Angeles
Committee to Get Justice for the Rosenoergsf
"A. Yes.
"Q. Who were the Rosenbergs?
"A. Ethel and Julius Rosenberg, the convicted atomic spies.
"Q. That was held at the First Unitarian Church?
"A. That is correct.
"Q. The chairman was Reid Robinson?
"A. That is correct.
"Q. The speakers included Benjamin Dreyfus?
"A. Correct.
"Q. William L. Patterson?
"A. Correct.
"Q. Janet Stephenson?
"A. Yes.
"Q. On the sixteenth of October, 1953, did you attend a meeting of
the Unitarian Public Forum at the Unitarian Church?
"A. Yes.
' ' Q. Was the speaker Carey McWilliams ?
"A. Yes.
"Q. The subject was, 'The Witch Hunt: an Interim Report?'
"A. That is correct.
"Q. How many people attended that meeting?
"A. Between eight and nine hundred. Mr. Fritchman was the chair-
man.
"Q. That is the Reverend Stephen Fritchman, who is the pastor of
that church?
"A. Yes.
330 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
" Q. On the seventeenth day of October, 1953, did you attend a meet-
ing of an organization known as Women for Legislative Action Con-
ference?
"A. Yes, I did.
"Q. Where was that held?
"A. At the Statler Hotel.
"Q. In Los Angeles?
"A. Yes.
"Q. Who were the chairmen of that meeting.
"A. Dorothy Marshall, whom I have previously mentioned, and
Sylvia Miller.
"Q. Would you return to ATour report of that particular meeting,
please.
"A. Yes, I will.
"Q. Referring to this report, Mrs. Drader, the meeting started at
11 o'clock p.m.?
"A. Yes.
' ' Q. Was it attended by between 250 and 300 people ?
"A. Yes.
" Q. The chairman was Dorothy Marshall, wife of Daniel G. Marshall,
the attorney, as you have heretofore testified?
"A. That is correct.
"Q. Was Dorothy Healey present?
"A. Yes, she was.
"Q. Did she participate in the proceedings?
"A. To a slight extent. In that meeting John Despol objected to her
presence.
"Q. Who is John Despol?
"A. He is affiliated with the CIO.
"Q. He is an official in the CIO?
"A. Yes.
"Q. Did he object to her presence?
"A. He objected to her presence.
"Q. For what reason?
"A. Because she was one of the convicted Communists. I believe
that was after the conviction. Pending their appeal to the Supreme
Court she was out on bail. He objected to the presence of a known and
convicted Communist in the meeting. There was quite a discussion be-
tween Mr. Despol and Mrs. Marshall concerning Mrs. Healey 's pres-
ence. It was stated that she was as welcome as anyone, that they did
not care what anyone's political belief was, that if they were inter-
ested in the Conference for Women's Legislative Action, they were
welcome to stay. They took a vote on it. Mr. Despol was the only one
who voted for her to leave, so he left.
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 331
' ' Q. The rest voted for her to stay, so he walked out ?
"A. He left.
' ' Chairman Burns : Mr. Counsel, I would like to have it clear in the
record that there is no way that John Despol could be considered to be
sympathetic to Communism here.
"Q. (By Mr. Combs) : He indicated that by his actions?
"A. He indicated it definitely there.
"Q. Was Leo Branton, an attorney, present at that meeting?
"A. Yes, he was.
' ' Q. Did he participate in the discussions ?
"A. I believe he did, yes. I think my report would state that he did.
Yes, he was one of the speakers on one of the panels, the civil liberties
panel.
"Q. There is a long list of names, and I won't take the time to read
them into the record now because it is much too long. Are these people
you recognized there or heard introduced?
"A. Either that, or were introduced as panel participants. I think
I have the report broken down as to those who participated in the
panels.
"Q. Yes, you have.
"A. At the latter part of it are the ones I recognized as being pres-
ent. Yes, here are the people I either recognized or who were introduced
as being present. There is a list of physical exhibits, printed and writ-
ten material that you attached to your original report and which you
sent to us ?
"A. That is correct.
"Q. They are enumerated in your copy?
"A. Yes.
"Q. The originals are in our possession?
"A. Yes.
"Q. In addition to that, as I understand it, there was distributed
for the participants at that particular function what is known as a
'Field Kit'?
''A. Yes.
"Q. Will you describe that from memory, what it consisted of?
"A. It was a brown envelope similar to those you have in front of
you, not quite so large. It consisted of a program which was quite nicely
bound and printed, with literature from various organizations that
they had inserted. There was a Handbill from the Committer for tin
Protection of the Foreign Born, and several others that I would have
to see. I have them listed.
"Q. Never mind. You also sent them into us with your report?
"A. Absolutely.
332 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
"Q. On the twentieth day of November, 1953, did you attend a
meeting of the ASP at the Embassy Auditorium in Los Angeles ?
"A. That is correct, yes.
"Q. That was regarding the motion picture, 'Salt of the Earth?'
"A. Mainly, yes.
' ' Q. How many people attended that meeting ?
"A. Between 12 and 13 hundred people were present.
"Q. On November 30, 1953, did you attend a meeting of the Los
Angeles Committee for the Protection of the Foreign Born?
"A. Yes, I did.
"Q. That was held at 607 Southwestern Avenue, at the Park Manor?
"A. Correct.
"Q. That was a welcome for David Hyun?
"A. Yes. He had just been released from Terminal Island on bail.
"Q. That was attended by 250 to 300 people?
"A. Correct.
"Q. "We are now in 1954. On January 10, 1954, did you attend a
meeting of the Citizens Committee to Preserve American Freedoms!
"A. Yes.
"Q. At the Cosmopolitan Hotel, 360 South Westlake Street, Los
Angeles ?
"A. That is correct.
"Q. "Was the Reverend A. A. Heist chairman on that occasion?
"A. That is correct.
"Q. And the speakers were witnesses who were subpoenaed before
this committee, is that right ?
"A. Yes. This committee had been down here in Los Angeles holding
hearings concerning the school situation, the Communist infiltration
into the schools. This was what I would call one of those protest
meetings that the various organizations frequently have after hearings
of this sort.
"Q. Sometimes before?
"A. Well, yes, true. There was quite a crowd.
"Q. How many attended?
"A. Between 300 and 400 people were present. They had recorded
speeches from some well known educators. One was Dr. Hugh Wilson
of Princeton University. The tenor of his recorded speech was that they
condemned all of the various committee investigations. He considered
it an interference in academic freedoms. Another recorded speech was
played by Robert Maynard Hutchins, who was Associate Director of the
Ford Foundation in Pasadena, and former Chancellor of the University
of Chicago. It was along the same tenor, condemning committees.
"Q. You sent us a copy of that report?
UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 333
"A. Yes.
"Q. And those sentiments?
"A. Yes. Then they had the various teachers who had been before
the committee.
"Q. They were not very friendly toward us, were they?
"A. No. They didn't say anything very complimentary about you, I
assure you. Then Mr. Frank Wilkinson was sort of an usher and more
or less showed people around and seated them.
"Q. Did he participate actively? Did he speak on that occasion?
"A. No, he did not speak, but his wife did, Jean Wilkinson. He was
sort of head usher.
"Q. On the twenty-seventh day of January, 1954, did you attend a
meeting of Women for Legislative Action ?
"A. That is correct.
"Q. That was at 330 South Las Palmas, Los Angeles?
"A. Yes.
"Q. Las Palmas Avenue. That was the residence of Sylvia and
Benjamin Miller?
"A. Correct.
"Q. It was more or less an organizational meeting?
"A. Yes. The Women for Legislative Action had been functioning
for a number of years as a daytime group. They would meet on weekday
afternoons. They came to the conclusion that there were quite a few
women who were employed, or for some reason or other could not
attend daytime meetings. They decided to set up an evening chapter
to accommodate those people. This was the charter meeting of the eve-
ning group.
"Q. Were you a member of that organization, too?
"A. Yes, sir, I was a charter member of it also.
' ' Q. How many attended that meeting ?
"A. Between 45 and 50.
"Q. On the seventh day of February, 1954, did you attend, at the
First Unitarian Church, a meeting of the Unitarian Public Forum, at
which time the chairman was the Reverend Stephen Fritchman?
"A. Yes.
"Q. Was one of the speakers a man by the name of Dr. Richard
Weinerman ?
"A. Yes, that is correct.
"Q. Did he discuss the use of the Fifth Amendment by witnesses
who appeared before this committee ?
"A. No. He discussed the policies of the Community Medical Center.
The other speaker, Harvey O'Connor, spoke on the use of the Fifth
Amendment defense before committees of this type.
334 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA
"Q. How many people attended that meeting?
"A. Between 300 and 350.
"Q. On the ninth day of February, 1954, did you attend a meeting of
the First Unitarian Church Forum, at which time the chairman was
Stephen Fritchman and the speaker was Anna Louise Strong ?
"A. Yes.
"Q. She spoke about the political situation in Guatemala?
"A. That is correct.
' ' Q. How many people attended that meeting ?
"A. Between 200 and 250.
' ' Q. On the twelfth day of February, 1954, did you attend a meeting
at the First Unitarian Church in Los Angeles regarding the loyalty
oath?
' ' A. That is correct.
"Q. How many people attended that meeting?
''A. Between 100 and 150.
"Q. On the twenty-fourth day of February, 1954, did you attend
a meeting of the Women for Legislative Action at 612 North Kilkea
Street?
"A. Correct.
"Q. At the residence of Dr. and Mrs. Simson Marcus?
"A. That is correct.
"Q. That was regarding the Walter-McCarran Act?
"A. Yes. They, of course, were for the repeal of the Walter-McCar-
ran Act.
"Q. How many people attended that meeting?
"A. 35 to 40.
"Q. On the 28th day of February,
Live Music Archive
Librivox Free Audio
Metropolitan Museum
Cleveland Museum of Art
Internet Arcade
Console Living Room
Books to Borrow
Open Library
TV News
Understanding 9/11